Wargaming, Please buff detection ranges of USN DD's

[x2_Weekends]

So we all know the smoke ability of DD's took a hard hit in 4.0.  For the IJN DD's while disappointing, it wasn't that huge of an issue because of their already low detection ranges.  But USN DD's, with their 4.5km to 5.5km torps, it has been nearly a deathknell for the line.  So I would suggest lowering the detection ranges of USN DD's, not to the level of IJN DD's mind you, but at least lower them a little.  Having 8km detection ranges is rather absurd for such a small ship and it hinders their gameplay immensely.  So please, consider this as an alternative to making any further "balancing" to the DD smoke ability.  The 7km DD detection ranges, while not great, at least are relegated to the lower tiers.  It's once you start hitting around an 8km detection ranges that USN DD capabilities start falling off, and therefore the effectiveness of their contribution to their team.

 

And for those saying USN DD's are HE gunboats, yeah I've played a few here and there, I kind of got the idea.  But that's the point.  Without having much, if any, torp capabilities there's nothing a USN DD can do that a USN Cruiser can't do better.  Basically it means my USN DD's go after other DD's and CV's and stay the hell away from CA/CL or BB's or get dead fast.  But is there some special DD or CV that cannot be destroyed just as easily by a CA/CL?  Not with the CA/CL firing ranges in the game the way they are.

[Special_Kay]

I would rather they just looked at how effective damage output scales for the different lines as you go up in tiers. I like the idea of USN DDs sitting beyond their visibility range and applying extra damage via cannonade, using smoke to screen allies as necessary, and holding torpedoes in reserve for when battlelines shift and opportunities present. But the damage increase going up in tiers from more guns and better rates of fire pale in comparison to the damage and hitpoint increases your opposition receive.

[NerfBat]

That would ruin the national flavor! Same garbage applies to CVs and BBs.

[Gothik_Knight]

  Personally, I think detection ranges (being the ranges at which ships detect things) should be upgraded on most USN DD's and Cruisers.  The real advantage that USN ships had in WW2 was not their AAA batteries, but rather it was advanced detection capabilities including radar and sonar, which was only common among American and British ships.

 

  As for the concealment of USN DD's compared to IJN DD's, in most cases (with one or two big exceptions) it's already within 5 points.  There's isn't much "buffing" that can be done without just giving them the same values.

 

  I do agree with your overall point though. USN DD's can't do anything without being spotted, at which point they might as well just be small cruisers with fewer/less effective guns.

 

 

[NargilFenris]

I would rather they reverse the smoke screen nerf.

[HanoverFist1970]

I would rather they reverse the smoke screen nerf.

 

Seconded.

[NerfBat]

I would rather they reverse the smoke screen nerf.

 

 

Seconded.

 

Exactly

[Special_Kay]

  Personally, I think detection ranges (being the ranges at which ships detect things) should be upgraded on most USN DD's and Cruisers.  The real advantage that USN ships had in WW2 was not their AAA batteries, but rather it was advanced detection capabilities including radar and sonar, which was only common among American and British ships.

 

Ah, since you went there, detection ranges aren't like in WoT—you probably already know this—your detection range is your draw range and also the distance at which you can view enemy ships as more than a silhouette on the map. The biggest difference from WoT is that the enemy's concealment range is the true determiner of whether the ship is spotted. It doesn't apply like camo rating, it's literally and simply the minimum range at which that ship can be spotted. While it is spotted, of course, everyone who has it within their own detection range can see it rendered (assuming line of sight) and can use the Alt key to determine who, what, and how damaged it is.

 

For the most part I suspect people mean to discuss concealment ranges exclusively, even when they say "detection range."

[BigJimmy_1]

I like the way my USN DD's plays. If you use ambush tactics, and hit and run using islands for cover and concealment, you can catch the biggest BB unaware, and send him to Davy Jones locker. And, if you get caught in open seas, your maneuverability can get you out of most problems. I have lots of fun, with my USN DD's.

[Jarink]

  Personally, I think detection ranges (being the ranges at which ships detect things) should be upgraded on most USN DD's and Cruisers.  The real advantage that USN ships had in WW2 was not their AAA batteries, but rather it was advanced detection capabilities including radar and sonar, which was only common among American and British ships.

 

 

I agree. Maybe a ~10% Range buff with a 'radar' Fire Control module

 

Other possible solutions:

A small dispersion buff with a 'radar' Fire Control module

A negative modifier that is applied to all enemy concealment values for US DDs/CAs (might be difficult to implement)

 

If WG ever implements night or weather, then radar should provide a notable advantage.

[Samurai_Mouse]

I dont play DDs so i get detected a lot at the start of the game. Usually i know that if i cant see them its an american DD thats spotted me. All along, i cant see them at all until i'm right on top of them ( and thats in an atago ). Personally I think DD detection ranges are fine.

[donaldEpott]

I dont use the smoke screen all that much other than to cover a retreat. Of course its because it drops my frame rates down to single digits.

[Samurai_Mouse]

Dont need smoke screens. We had one DD last night that was completely invisible. All we could see was the flash from him firing his rounds.. Considering he was within 2Km of me at the time, it was a little unnerving.. Of course, there was a cruiser in another game that did the same thing.. Admittedly this is in co-op and the invisible ships are AI, but i dont think that really makes a difference..

[Doobie_Destroyer]

If you look ahead the detection range will be a moot point at tier X. Both the Gearing and the Shimakaze have the exact same detection range. Smoke is used defensively now instead of offensively like it was in CBT. US DD's have much better guns and the IJN have better Torp ranges at lower tiers. Again at tier X the Gearing has 16.5 km torps while the Shimakaze has 20 km torps.

[Special_Kay]

Dont need smoke screens. We had one DD last night that was completely invisible. All we could see was the flash from him firing his rounds.. Considering he was within 2Km of me at the time, it was a little unnerving.. Of course, there was a cruiser in another game that did the same thing.. Admittedly this is in co-op and the invisible ships are AI, but i dont think that really makes a difference..

 

That definitely sounds like a bug. Have you watched the replay? Does it show properly there, or do you see the same problem? If the latter, please upload the replay and file it with a bug report.

 

If you look ahead the detection range will be a moot point at tier X. Both the Gearing and the Shimakaze have the exact same detection range. Smoke is used defensively now instead of offensively like it was in CBT. US DD's have much better guns and the IJN have better Torp ranges at lower tiers. Again at tier X the Gearing has 16.5 km torps while the Shimakaze has 20 km torps.

 

It's hardly moot when you see a gradual increase in IJN destroyer torpedo range all the way from tier two such that your very first module upgrade at tier two gives you better range than your concealment limit, whereas USN destroyer torpedo range takes until tier eight to exceed 6.4km. By the time USN destroyers get a kilometre of torpedo range beyond their own concealment limits (at 52kn by the way), the IJN is choosing between 10km–62kn or 15km–57kn torpedoes.

 

I'm not commenting on whether it's fair or not, but it's certainly not dismissible as you imply. It's incorrect to point at tier ten and see balance, then call everything else moot. Wargaming titles' economies do not support sustained tier ten play, so you can't use the kind of max level-only shortcuts games like MMORPGs use for balancing.

[Samurai_Mouse]

If you look ahead the detection range will be a moot point at tier X. Both the Gearing and the Shimakaze have the exact same detection range. Smoke is used defensively now instead of offensively like it was in CBT. US DD's have much better guns and the IJN have better Torp ranges at lower tiers. Again at tier X the Gearing has 16.5 km torps while the Shimakaze has 20 km torps.

 

Thats pretty intense. I can only imagine that the tier ten battlefield must end up looking like a Scottish plaid with all the torps crisscrossing each other..

[Special_Kay]

Thats pretty intense. I can only imagine that the tier ten battlefield must end up looking like a Scottish plaid with all the torps crisscrossing each other..

 

Not when it takes 150 seconds to reload those tubes.

[Samurai_Mouse]

 

That definitely sounds like a bug. Have you watched the replay? Does it show properly there, or do you see the same problem? If the latter, please upload the replay and file it with a bug report.

 

 

It's hardly moot when you see a gradual increase in IJN destroyer torpedo range all the way from tier two such that your very first module upgrade at tier two gives you better range than your concealment limit, whereas USN destroyer torpedo range takes until tier eight to exceed 6.4km. By the time USN destroyers get a kilometre of torpedo range beyond their own concealment limits (at 52kn by the way), the IJN is choosing between 10km–62kn or 15km–57kn torpedoes.

 

I'm not commenting on whether it's fair or not, but it's certainly not dismissible as you imply. It's incorrect to point at tier ten and see balance, then call everything else moot. Wargaming titles' economies do not support sustained tier ten play, so you can't use the kind of max level-only shortcuts games like MMORPGs use for balancing.

 

Well, I must admit that in my comment, i was being mildly sarcastic. As you so well know, the invisible ship syndrome has been with us forever and has been believed to be a carry-over in code from WOT.. it just seems that lately, it's been happening more frequently.

[Samurai_Mouse]

 

Not when it takes 150 seconds to reload those tubes.

 

Touche' ..