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reaver2000

An open (hopefully constructive) discussion over 2 broken procs imo...

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1. Torpedo Bomber Attacks:

 

      a. As the ship being attacked:

           1. When torpedo bombers are in flight they seem to turn on a dime utilizing a type of formation flying the Blue Angels would be envious of. Make turning and maneuvering "cost" the squadron its formation tightness. 

           2. When torpedo bombers (currently) are about to drop their torpedoes they do so from the same cruise level they do when flying around, for a ship driver they have to look "up" as if they are tracking Dive Bombers.. imo this is nuts and easily changed.   Torpedo attacks should be conducted at low level 100' or so above the water...at the altitude they currently drop at they would be falling straight down like depth charges. It breaks the sense of the attack of the game. Also if the dive bombers are low and are dropping insanely close to the ship there should be a cost in the fire power ability of AAA of nearby ships.

 

I have personally, and have seen in CA's help defend a CV or BB been subjected to "triple: squadron attacks whereby 12 for ijn, and 18 for usn planes all drop at EXACTLY the same spot and time and you are SUNK even if maneuvering well and with friendly ship coverage. A case in point:  2 CA's + 1 lower tier CA (me) within 1.5km of friendly CV. Friendly CV gets attacked by a few decoy fighter squadrons, followed closely by the "blue Angels" in UFO's not even F-18's mind you, to drop a triple drop on our CV. Result CV dead... a few enemy planes shot down.  Its not a problem of good vs bad player, its a broken mechanic of the game that is currently being exploited.  I believe that a better system must be out there, one a good CV driver doesn't get bored by having the challenge be as for into "arcade land" as possible and the defending ships get a feel for being under a still deadly attack, but one where they have the power to do something about to mitigate the damage.

 

          3. planes are still flying under water like fishing birds or something, really? please...

 

     b. As the CV driver, a less arcade and more intelligent Ai for the flights of planes.  Some fall out of formation, and may receive greater DPS, or more torpedo drop deviation by angle & time relative the the flight.

 

2. Fire Damage:

 

     1. The ship on fire:

         a. This imo is totally broken. First a simple % damage does not make sense! A destroyer or light cruiser firing small caliber shots can deliver some huge damage amounts to a BB.  Do the BB's in WoWs carry thier Oil, Cordite, and Ammo above decks? Sure an internal fire is a grave thing second only to a fire on a sub or airplane, but come on, the speed of the fire damage versus the game pace seems OFF.

         b. How does the player quickly tell whether a fire is minor moderate or major? Is there a difference? The repair ability system is broken versus Fire damage as its pointless to use as in only a few seconds later you'll be on fire again, but within the span of 2 broadsides in response from the 'on fire' BB it can be totally burned down.  This is broken not only because it seems so but more so because its causing players to get pissed off, rather than think ''crap you sank my BB  ggwp" it is actively destroying a fun experience of game-play regardless of weather the ship survives the attack or not. It's NOT FUN!

          c. how is it that the same attack of a CL or CA catching fire to a DD has no equivalent of this frustration. when a DD gets caught on fire it loss of Hp seems ok, but a BB under the same attack by a DD or CA that could be on the DD is utterly devastated ?  I'm not sure how to fix this but attention needs to be paid to this, a balance needs to be placed.

     2. the Attacking HE ship.  rapid fire ships can literally burn down a BB in a matter of 30seconds. supposedly there was a nerf to HE damage by cmall caliber shells...i don't see it.... what i do see is a need to "change" not nerf the fire proc. a large fire should be a big deal, a small one should by cosmetic in comparison. This and i'm guilty of it as well, lends to exploitative game play, sooner or later a player will get good enough to exploit these, you know your ship wouldn't stand a chance but you can because you know the fire damage resultant will destroy the ship.

 

 

Please, lets have a constructive discussion, NOT this OP this not OP, this sucks or you suck, or the multitude of variations on this... you want a forum, debate not insult....  cheers: 

Edited by reaver2000
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They don't actually turn that easily.. It's an optical trick that the oversized plane icon plays on you.. When launching Toros from bombers you have to realign shots by flying away, realigning the Torps outside of the "circle" and then going back I for the launch.. It's not an easy process to realign Torps at all :P

 

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They don't actually turn that easily.. It's an optical trick that the oversized plane icon plays on you.. When launching Toros from bombers you have to realign shots by flying away, realigning the Torps outside of the "circle" and then going back I for the launch.. It's not an easy process to realign Torps at all :P

 

from the CV drivers perspective, from the ship on the water its next to impossible evening if you are watching. Plus it would be nice to see formations scatter in maneuvers.  The Blue Angles comment i think is spot on, on the disbelieving of how flights "fly" at this point.

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from the CV drivers perspective, from the ship on the water its next to impossible evening if you are watching. Plus it would be nice to see formations scatter in maneuvers.  The Blue Angles comment i think is spot on, on the disbelieving of how flights "fly" at this point.

 

Sorry, but I think the perspective where you can accurately see how the squadrons are turning and moving is more accurate than when you're just seeing an oversized icon spin around without being able to see how far away it is *really*.. And there is a "reforming" of their formations when you drop torpedoes, it either takes the squadron spinning around without you controlling it or you lining up the shot perfectly for the squadron to easily reform. I personally believe planes fly quite accurately, of course striking the whole "they can fly over mountains easily and then immediately attack ships" thing :P

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Sorry, but I think the perspective where you can accurately see how the squadrons are turning and moving is more accurate than when you're just seeing an oversized icon spin around without being able to see how far away it is *really*.. And there is a "reforming" of their formations when you drop torpedoes, it either takes the squadron spinning around without you controlling it or you lining up the shot perfectly for the squadron to easily reform. I personally believe planes fly quite accurately, of course striking the whole "they can fly over mountains easily and then immediately attack ships" thing :P

 

Have to agree with Yuki here. When you do drive a cv, if you change your torp's course as they go in, they have to turn around and re-engage. If they are too close to the enemy ship already, they have to fly away to engage at the proper distance.

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The tb's dip towards the water when they are dropping their torps. I like that they fly high before they drop, low when dropping, then high again.This makes it easier to tell if you are being attacked (if you learn what the planes' behavior is.)

 

Many of the aircraft in this game are biplanes, who COULD flip over/turn on a dime like that. Not so sure of the monoplanes, though.

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2. Fire Damage:

 

     1. The ship on fire:

         a. This imo is totally broken. First a simple % damage does not make sense! A destroyer or light cruiser firing small caliber shots can deliver some huge damage amounts to a BB.  Do the BB's in WoWs carry thier Oil, Cordite, and Ammo above decks? Sure an internal fire is a grave thing second only to a fire on a sub or airplane, but come on, the speed of the fire damage versus the game pace seems OFF.

 

I've posted in a number of threads about this, and honestly the troll in me never gets bored of pointing this out:

 

Do not use realism to discuss how OP shipboard fires are.  Ask anyone who has been in any professional navy, read through combat logs of World War II, the Falklands, or even various "incidents" -- shipboard fires pretty much keep sailors awake at night in a way that few other things can.  Fires are utterly deadly, they spread quickly in ships, and tend to get intimate with things that make them burner even hotter and sometimes find things that explode in ships.

 

Battleships, in fact all ships do indeed keep a lot of flammable stuff on deck.  I daresay, they keep a lot of intensely flammable things on deck.  You know all those beautiful Anti-Aircraft guns on these ships and the secondary deck guns and so on?  Their ammunition didn't just magically appear, a significant amount was kept in ready-use lockers; basically cabinets filled with ammunition.  Then there's small hatches they'd feed additional ammunition through once the ready-use stuff was gone.  While these lockers may have had some armor, they're still very vulnerable to HE hits of warship-size guns (remember WW2 shell explosives were nowhere near as safe as modern propellants - they'd explode if set on fire).  There's all kinds of other stuff, the paint on ships burns (specialized naval paint was intended to not burn very well but first and foremost naval paint is formulated to be a durable coating to prevent rust so with the mantra of all fires, with oxygen and sufficiently high temperatures, the very paintjob of ships would burn), there's insulation (both weatherproofing and insulation on wires), grease and substances like cresote everywhere ... all kinds of stuff burns.  The more wartime the navy, the more likely it is they'll have lots of stuff on their decks the Fire Marshall would frown intensely at because of the needs of combat.

 

Spalling can cause fires - HE shells impact the armor but don't penetrate, but shockwaves travel through the metal of the armor, then the phase transition from the solid armor to the air of the interior causes the interior hull of a ship to fragment, sending bits of razor sharp metal from the inside of the hull flying through the ship.  In addition to being an obvious injury hazard, these metal fragments impact other metal fittings and cause sparks, starting fires. 

 

A fire aboard a ship spreads quickly, once that fire reaches things like Mr. Torpedo or Mr. Magazine Room, then Mr. Ship Ceases to exist.  But even before then, fires can destroy electrical generators, turbines, and similar things that will basically kill a ship.

 

         b. How does the player quickly tell whether a fire is minor moderate or major? Is there a difference? The repair ability system is broken versus Fire damage as its pointless to use as in only a few seconds later you'll be on fire again, but within the span of 2 broadsides in response from the 'on fire' BB it can be totally burned down.  This is broken not only because it seems so but more so because its causing players to get pissed off, rather than think ''crap you sank my BB  ggwp" it is actively destroying a fun experience of game-play regardless of weather the ship survives the attack or not. It's NOT FUN!

 

Count the number of fire icons on you.  That's how much fire damage you're taking per tick.  Generally if you're in a battleship, I'd ignore a single fire marker; it's doing damage, bad damage, but honestly, you need to save your repair crew more dire things that might occur, like torpedo strike flooding, or more fires.

 

Generally, I try and ignore any fires on my ship until the fight is over.  If you're getting four fire icons put on you, then you put them out and you get another four within a minute?  There's basically only two situations when this happens: Either you screwed up by isolating yourself in a little bathtub of saltwater with a few Cruisers and Destroyers ... or your teammates around you all screwed up and died.  Don't really rage about fires in either case, something would have killed you; it just happened to be fires.  Before you ask, yes, I screw up like this.  I think every "expert" battleship player does; we can't always control if the people we're sailing with all get sunk.  Then we're still around because we're more durable, then these ships gang up on us and we die or we use our repair then from some quarter we didn't expect some cruiser shows up and starts raining HE on us from 11km away.

 

 

          c. how is it that the same attack of a CL or CA catching fire to a DD has no equivalent of this frustration. when a DD gets caught on fire it loss of Hp seems ok, but a BB under the same attack by a DD or CA that could be on the DD is utterly devastated ?  I'm not sure how to fix this but attention needs to be paid to this, a balance needs to be placed.

 

 

Are you familiar with that common urban belief that birds don't ever seem to die because you never see dead birds?  We all know it happens and just because you don't see dead birds doesn't mean they don't die.

 

Same thing with destroyers.  We die from fire.  We die from flooding.  Destroyers can take major damage from fires, their fires are nowhere near just "okay."  It's just that we have so few HP and no armor that usually, we die to direct violence long before fires and flooding can kill us.  But it happens; we get set on fire, we limp away, our repair used to get rid of some engine crit or something and we burn down and die.  Fires "devastate" cruisers and battleships because the latter have far more HP and armor so can shrug off enough damage to make fire and flooding significant.

 

 

     2. the Attacking HE ship.  rapid fire ships can literally burn down a BB in a matter of 30seconds. supposedly there was a nerf to HE damage by cmall caliber shells...i don't see it.... what i do see is a need to "change" not nerf the fire proc. a large fire should be a big deal, a small one should by cosmetic in comparison. This and i'm guilty of it as well, lends to exploitative game play, sooner or later a player will get good enough to exploit these, you know your ship wouldn't stand a chance but you can because you know the fire damage resultant will destroy the ship.

 

I find this a little hard to believe than any ship can burn a full health battleship down in 30 seconds with rapid-fire HE shells, unless it's some really messed up tier mismatch like an Atlanta spamming a Kawachi or South Carolina that somehow snuck into a higher tier game by the magic of divisions.

 

I'm aware you don't want to hear "git gud" but in this case, I really have to say, you screwed up.  If have allowed Cleveland, Atlanta, or Mogami (these are the usual suspect for solo "torrents of HE") that close to you where they're just emptying HE into your ship and sinking you 30 seconds, you most likely are in some bad situation, sometimes avoidable, occasionally not:

 

1) You decided to play hero and went off by yourself.  It might not fit the modern American ideal of the lone hero, but fighting and traveling with others yields benefits like victory.  If nobody covers a flank, nobody covers it - yeah, it's flaw, but going there to play Alamo or whatever is unlikely to lead to some heroic defense by you, you're just going to die miserably with 4 fires on you.  Just don't bother.  I've noticed that players in WoWS (not just battleships but everyone) expect everyone to play to their convenience.  But in the end if I want something, say, people to sail with, I often have to make an effort myself; if nobody follows me, I follow other people.  If I'm in a battleship and all the cruisers abruptly decide to go somewhere else, you know what I do?  I make a major course correction and follow them.  It's iffy because cruiser players have the same number of noobs and people who just want to pew-pew and not think, but it still beats traveling alone.

 

2) The people you were with were screw-ups or got into a fight with a much larger group of enemies.  Either way, they all got sunk.  There's frankly not much you can do about this one.  Realize that this isn't the fire or HE's fault.  It's that you were outnumbered, surrounded like an elephant by lions or something.  Yeah, they're going to most likely take you down.  Just accept it and try and do as much damage as you can - running away just means you'll die as floating hibachi.  WoWS isn't a single-player game - the other side consists of players just like you who want to win as well, they're putting in an effort to kill you.  Depending on the situation, they'll succeed.

 

3) The game went badly and you're the last ship left and you're probably heavily outnumbered, just accept it.

 

However, if you're with other people (particularly cruisers) these "rapid fire Atlantas" and so on going to have issues - other cruisers shooting at them and cruisers tend to dislike being shot at.  They don't stoically accept it like battleships.  When Clevelands or Atlantas get shot at, they often run away like little girls or that Cleveland on your side puts four fires on them and they sink in short order.

 

One final bit of (admittedly unsolicited) advice: When you're traveling along with your merry little band and you see an enemy battleship and two enemy cruisers ... your job as a battleship is ... to kill the cruisers.  Bullying cruisers isn't nice, but it sure is a good way to win a fight.  Resist the urge of having some chivalarous battleship duel of honor or the machismo urge of saying "I'll take the big guy, you deal with the small fry."  Battleships are tough and take a long time to kill and chances are that battleship is not a Higgle or Tedster but some idiot like me who can't score citadels with every salvo.  Kill the enemy cruisers first.  That battleship will still be there after you kill the cruisers.  Then let the other guy experience "being burned to the ground in 30 seconds by fires from those OP cruisers."

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The tb's dip towards the water when they are dropping their torps. I like that they fly high before they drop, low when dropping, then high again.This makes it easier to tell if you are being attacked (if you learn what the planes' behavior is.)

 

Many of the aircraft in this game are biplanes, who COULD flip over/turn on a dime like that. Not so sure of the monoplanes, though.

 

This may be but it is far from realistic, and not really indicative of an attack.  In real life torpedo bombers would fly low and slow on their approach to target, which is why they were so vulnerable.  We don't really see that here, we see a rollercoaster ride in which they drop torps and scoot out ASAP.  The 'dip' occurs a mere second before they drop, and many CV players are managing to drop within 300m of their target it seems, giving zero chance for the attacked vessel to change course.  Then one might argue, why not anticipate the attack and turn into it?  Well, yeah you can do that, but then the planes will be adjusted to attack you from an angle that is even less avoidable because now your rudder is full tilt to one side.  I generally don't subscribe to, "XXX is OP" arguments but the telegraphing of said attacks are not effectively creating game balance.

 

As to the comment of biplanes doing rolls and flips with an 800kg torpedo under it?  Simply no, B5N2s or TBFs aren't going to be doing barrel rolls loaded down with torpedoes either...

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problem with fire is that the damage is based on a percent of the HP pool of the ship thats burning, Not the size of the shell that started the fire. so a DD might see 20 hp lost per tick, a battleship sees 300-400 hp lost per tick. a single fire on a New Mexico tier 6 fully upgraded is around 15,000 damage if not extinguished. And usually if you extinguish your screwed because a good CV driver will be watching, and wait for a battleship to be put on fire and the fire to go out, so he knows he can probably get a kill from torpedo flooding or DB fire. So the choice is turn tail and run from battle in the hopes you don't get a second fire, and let the first one extinguish on its own. or hit your damage control and pray that your not immediately set on fire again or torpedoed. 

 

How wargaming doesn't see a problem with fire is beyond me. Their data collection must be flawed. If they are looking at the data from all ships combined, that would probably explain it. If they were to break it down by class they would see that most BBs are having the majority of their HP removed by fire.  

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I don't consider the HE shells causing fire to be an issue so much as the far greater damage that 6" shells with at most 6-13lb of HE filler in them (~100lb shell all together depending on manufacturer) are doing to ships proofed against 6" shells or greater.  The fires are secondary in my opinion.  I think the issue stems from WG deciding to use a single HP pool instead of using two; one for floatation and another for structure.  I'm sure they've done this because it would be more difficult to balance, and probably concerned that it would overcomplicate the game.  However, due to this decision it has created a scenario where a CL can pummel a BB till it sinks... which seems farfetched given most war accounts.  It certainly doesn't help that BB secondary batteries have been artificially nerfed compared to CL/DD main guns.  Many shared the exact same systems, but for some reason BB secondaries have a limited range of 5-7km while Atlantas or Kuma's can use those same guns to 12kms or more.  

 

Personally, I think the attempt at game balance has in fact resulted in the reverse.  It can be fixed, but it requires another look at the whole system and how they desire it to work.  My concern is that they actually want this current meta; in which case I'm glad I have not dropped cash on this yet.

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They don't actually turn that easily.. It's an optical trick that the oversized plane icon plays on you.. When launching Toros from bombers you have to realign shots by flying away, realigning the Torps outside of the "circle" and then going back I for the launch.. It's not an easy process to realign Torps at all :P

 

Is there a way to know the size of the "aiming circle" that is around your ship? to  better judge what the planes are doing, since dodging torpedoes is impossible vs a competent CV driver.  The other thing i was wondering... do you notice if the Ai AAA fires on 'decoy' fighter squadrons instead of shooting at the real threat?

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I've posted in a number of threads about this, and honestly the troll in me never gets bored of pointing this out:

 

Do not use realism to discuss how OP shipboard fires are.  Ask anyone who has been in any professional navy, read through combat logs of World War II, the Falklands, or even various "incidents" -- shipboard fires pretty much keep sailors awake at night in a way that few other things can.  Fires are utterly deadly, they spread quickly in ships, and tend to get intimate with things that make them burner even hotter and sometimes find things that explode in ships.

 

Battleships, in fact all ships do indeed keep a lot of flammable stuff on deck.  I daresay, they keep a lot of intensely flammable things on deck.  You know all those beautiful Anti-Aircraft guns on these ships and the secondary deck guns and so on?  Their ammunition didn't just magically appear, a significant amount was kept in ready-use lockers; basically cabinets filled with ammunition.  Then there's small hatches they'd feed additional ammunition through once the ready-use stuff was gone.  While these lockers may have had some armor, they're still very vulnerable to HE hits of warship-size guns (remember WW2 shell explosives were nowhere near as safe as modern propellants - they'd explode if set on fire).  There's all kinds of other stuff, the paint on ships burns (specialized naval paint was intended to not burn very well but first and foremost naval paint is formulated to be a durable coating to prevent rust so with the mantra of all fires, with oxygen and sufficiently high temperatures, the very paintjob of ships would burn), there's insulation (both weatherproofing and insulation on wires), grease and substances like cresote everywhere ... all kinds of stuff burns.  The more wartime the navy, the more likely it is they'll have lots of stuff on their decks the Fire Marshall would frown intensely at because of the needs of combat.

 

Spalling can cause fires - HE shells impact the armor but don't penetrate, but shockwaves travel through the metal of the armor, then the phase transition from the solid armor to the air of the interior causes the interior hull of a ship to fragment, sending bits of razor sharp metal from the inside of the hull flying through the ship.  In addition to being an obvious injury hazard, these metal fragments impact other metal fittings and cause sparks, starting fires. 

 

A fire aboard a ship spreads quickly, once that fire reaches things like Mr. Torpedo or Mr. Magazine Room, then Mr. Ship Ceases to exist.  But even before then, fires can destroy electrical generators, turbines, and similar things that will basically kill a ship.

 

 

Count the number of fire icons on you.  That's how much fire damage you're taking per tick.  Generally if you're in a battleship, I'd ignore a single fire marker; it's doing damage, bad damage, but honestly, you need to save your repair crew more dire things that might occur, like torpedo strike flooding, or more fires.

 

Generally, I try and ignore any fires on my ship until the fight is over.  If you're getting four fire icons put on you, then you put them out and you get another four within a minute?  There's basically only two situations when this happens: Either you screwed up by isolating yourself in a little bathtub of saltwater with a few Cruisers and Destroyers ... or your teammates around you all screwed up and died.  Don't really rage about fires in either case, something would have killed you; it just happened to be fires.  Before you ask, yes, I screw up like this.  I think every "expert" battleship player does; we can't always control if the people we're sailing with all get sunk.  Then we're still around because we're more durable, then these ships gang up on us and we die or we use our repair then from some quarter we didn't expect some cruiser shows up and starts raining HE on us from 11km away.

 

 

Are you familiar with that common urban belief that birds don't ever seem to die because you never see dead birds?  We all know it happens and just because you don't see dead birds doesn't mean they don't die.

 

Same thing with destroyers.  We die from fire.  We die from flooding.  Destroyers can take major damage from fires, their fires are nowhere near just "okay."  It's just that we have so few HP and no armor that usually, we die to direct violence long before fires and flooding can kill us.  But it happens; we get set on fire, we limp away, our repair used to get rid of some engine crit or something and we burn down and die.  Fires "devastate" cruisers and battleships because the latter have far more HP and armor so can shrug off enough damage to make fire and flooding significant.

 

 

I find this a little hard to believe than any ship can burn a full health battleship down in 30 seconds with rapid-fire HE shells, unless it's some really messed up tier mismatch like an Atlanta spamming a Kawachi or South Carolina that somehow snuck into a higher tier game by the magic of divisions.

 

I'm aware you don't want to hear "git gud" but in this case, I really have to say, you screwed up.  If have allowed Cleveland, Atlanta, or Mogami (these are the usual suspect for solo "torrents of HE") that close to you where they're just emptying HE into your ship and sinking you 30 seconds, you most likely are in some bad situation, sometimes avoidable, occasionally not:

 

1) You decided to play hero and went off by yourself.  It might not fit the modern American ideal of the lone hero, but fighting and traveling with others yields benefits like victory.  If nobody covers a flank, nobody covers it - yeah, it's flaw, but going there to play Alamo or whatever is unlikely to lead to some heroic defense by you, you're just going to die miserably with 4 fires on you.  Just don't bother.  I've noticed that players in WoWS (not just battleships but everyone) expect everyone to play to their convenience.  But in the end if I want something, say, people to sail with, I often have to make an effort myself; if nobody follows me, I follow other people.  If I'm in a battleship and all the cruisers abruptly decide to go somewhere else, you know what I do?  I make a major course correction and follow them.  It's iffy because cruiser players have the same number of noobs and people who just want to pew-pew and not think, but it still beats traveling alone.

 

2) The people you were with were screw-ups or got into a fight with a much larger group of enemies.  Either way, they all got sunk.  There's frankly not much you can do about this one.  Realize that this isn't the fire or HE's fault.  It's that you were outnumbered, surrounded like an elephant by lions or something.  Yeah, they're going to most likely take you down.  Just accept it and try and do as much damage as you can - running away just means you'll die as floating hibachi.  WoWS isn't a single-player game - the other side consists of players just like you who want to win as well, they're putting in an effort to kill you.  Depending on the situation, they'll succeed.

 

3) The game went badly and you're the last ship left and you're probably heavily outnumbered, just accept it.

 

However, if you're with other people (particularly cruisers) these "rapid fire Atlantas" and so on going to have issues - other cruisers shooting at them and cruisers tend to dislike being shot at.  They don't stoically accept it like battleships.  When Clevelands or Atlantas get shot at, they often run away like little girls or that Cleveland on your side puts four fires on them and they sink in short order.

 

One final bit of (admittedly unsolicited) advice: When you're traveling along with your merry little band and you see an enemy battleship and two enemy cruisers ... your job as a battleship is ... to kill the cruisers.  Bullying cruisers isn't nice, but it sure is a good way to win a fight.  Resist the urge of having some chivalarous battleship duel of honor or the machismo urge of saying "I'll take the big guy, you deal with the small fry."  Battleships are tough and take a long time to kill and chances are that battleship is not a Higgle or Tedster but some idiot like me who can't score citadels with every salvo.  Kill the enemy cruisers first.  That battleship will still be there after you kill the cruisers.  Then let the other guy experience "being burned to the ground in 30 seconds by fires from those OP cruisers."

 

I disagree with some of your points.. but thank you for the time you put into the post. o7

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Ship fires only mattered on wooden ships or subs. A fire on a steel ship is meaningless. There's plenty of air to breath, and the ship won't burn.

so the fact is, fires on these modern steal ships is way over done by wg.

just another reason to keep this game free. Not worth a nickle atm

 

 

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