Jump to content
You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section.
Endeav

HE Damage vs BBs is definitely not fine

90 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Beta Testers
86 posts
814 battles

 

This was obviously a very balanced engagement. I scored 9 hits, and pretty sure my aim wasn't that terrible. Only one fire was started by his 200 shells, nevermind that. He did at least 65k in about a minute.

 

Pretty sure an equal or higher tier BB firing AP wouldn't have killed me that fast, I was angled against him and he was still doing 2k damage salvos.

Edited by Endeav
  • Cool 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alpha Tester
119 posts
1,622 battles

Had something like this, in the Colorado against an Atlanta. Almost exact same situation. But he was doing 3-4k per barrage and I tried using HE which oddly did less than AP was doing overpenning.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
32 posts

Every bit of that fire damage is classed as light damage and can be repaired with repair party, citadels cannot;  keep that in mind next time you're on fire in a BB, and use appropriately. Further, the Atlanta has a very short range for its tier, so avoid getting into brawling range where it can apply it's dps.

Edited by Hexcaliber

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
86 posts
814 battles

Every bit of that fire damage is classed as light damage and can be repaired with repair party, citadels cannot;  keep that in mind next time you're on fire in a BB, and use appropriately.

..... I mentioned in the op that it wasn't fire damage. There was only one fire, and I repaired part way in and died to he way before repair came up. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
32 posts

..... I mentioned in the op that it wasn't fire damage. There was only one fire, and I repaired part way in and died to he way before repair came up. 

Sorry I was editing my op while you replied, it was not my intention to edit after you had responded. Your primary mistake was letting him get into range. FWIW he is limited to 11km's and his max damage per HE shell is only 1800 very low for that tier; however it fires at 12 rpm.

Edited by Hexcaliber

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
86 posts
814 battles

Sorry I was editing my op while you replied, it was not my intention to edit after you had responded. Your primary mistake was letting him get into range. FWIW he is limited to 11km's.

 I turned corner there to blunt enemy that near mid, turning corner into a CA broadside at 9 km should favour the BB, especially since my guns were trained. 

 

The point is, the amount of damage I took strictly from HE shell damage was absurd. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Banned
358 posts

 I turned corner there to blunt enemy that near mid, turning corner into a CA broadside at 9 km should favour the BB, especially since my guns were trained. 

 

The point is, the amount of damage I took strictly from HE shell damage was absurd. 

 

Good thing they think it is fine.  No seriously.. they think it is spot on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
86 posts
814 battles

 

Good thing they think it is fine.  No seriously.. they think it is spot on.

 

I think they think fire damage is spot on, which I would agree with. Fires are manageable. This is about the damage from HE shells themselves.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14
[HMCS_]
Beta Testers
58 posts
11,918 battles

 

This was obviously a very balanced engagement. I scored 9 hits, and pretty sure my aim wasn't that terrible. Only one fire was started by his 200 shells, nevermind that. He did at least 65k in about a minute.

 

Pretty sure an equal or higher tier BB firing AP wouldn't have killed me that fast, I was angled against him and he was still doing 2k damage salvos.

 

First shell hit you at 0:11 and you were sunk at 1:34, so an 83 second engagement where you lost 50100 hit points.  At 0:32 you activated the repair ability which would have taken you from ~29000 to ~41000, bringing your total hit points to ~62100.  You were on fire, (only one mind you) from 0:11 to 0:55.  The Atlanta did 748 DPS or 44.9K damage a minute, which includes the fire damage, (which in my opinion you were lucky only one was started).

 

Considering the Atlanta is a premium ship at the same tier you were your only hope was to score citadel hits.  Try aiming at the waterline next time.  Your shots were hitting the superstructure.  Two hits would have ended that fight fast.  Plus you were out of position, BB's don't do well all alone, (Bismarck anyone?).  Even the team chat mentioned everyone was picked off one by one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14
[HMCS_]
Beta Testers
58 posts
11,918 battles

 I turned corner there to blunt enemy that near mid, turning corner into a CA broadside at 9 km should favour the BB, especially since my guns were trained. 

 

The point is, the amount of damage I took strictly from HE shell damage was absurd. 

 

Fire is the number one concern on any ship.  Period.  The Navy mantra is:  Float.  Move.  Fight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
86 posts
814 battles

 

First shell hit you at 0:11 and you were sunk at 1:34, so an 83 second engagement where you lost 50100 hit points.  At 0:32 you activated the repair ability which would have taken you from ~29000 to ~41000, bringing your total hit points to ~62100.  You were on fire, (only one mind you) from 0:11 to 0:55.  The Atlanta did 748 DPS or 44.9K damage a minute, which includes the fire damage, (which in my opinion you were lucky only one was started).

 

Considering the Atlanta is a premium ship at the same tier you were your only hope was to score citadel hits.  Try aiming at the waterline next time.  Your shots were hitting the superstructure.  Two hits would have ended that fight fast.  Plus you were out of position, BB's don't do well all alone, (Bismarck anyone?).  Even the team chat mentioned everyone was picked off one by one.

 

I did aim at the waterline for the first set of rounds, they dispersed into his superstructure. The second set of shots he turned after I fired, or during, I'm not quite sure. I don't think I was out of position there since it was a total 1v1 engagement vs a CA, the team whining about being picked off is because they were being pummeled by a lone nagato (i left a new mexico, two clevelands, and a new york to engage a fleeing nagato, which I think was reasonable).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
86 posts
814 battles

 

Fire is the number one concern on any ship.  Period.  The Navy mantra is:  Float.  Move.  Fight.

 

Thanks? I don't know how this is relevant to the amount of pure HE shell damage being done.
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3
[SUSSY]
Members
18 posts
2,013 battles

They're not good enough. ;p

 

TBF, AP cruiser vs cruiser, AP wins. 

 

Edited by Warhorses

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
7 posts
1,274 battles

The main issue here, is look at how many shots the Atlanta fired and hit, that accuracy is spot on while the battleship can only chuck rounds and praying to the rng gods for a citadel hit, rng ruins games, and wargaming refuses to understand how rng is bad and ruins gameplay.

  • Cool 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,270
Alpha Tester, In AlfaTesters
4,441 posts
509 battles

If you ask me, it's not fire that makes HE overpowered, but the base damage it deals on impact. In my Aoba, I can sling AP at an angled battleship and can expect a maximum of 1k damage dealt. With HE, I can expect about 3k damage on impact per salvo. At the end of the day, HE and AP can deal similar amounts of damage, but HE can deal extensive module and fire damage as an added bonus. Take that initial damage away and HE will be right as rain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
86 posts
814 battles

If you ask me, it's not fire that makes HE overpowered, but the base damage it deals on impact. In my Aoba, I can sling AP at an angled battleship and can expect a maximum of 1k damage dealt. With HE, I can expect about 3k damage on impact per salvo. At the end of the day, HE and AP can deal similar amounts of damage, but HE can deal extensive module and fire damage as an added bonus. Take that initial damage away and HE will be right as rain.

 

This is what I keep trying to say, its the HE damage, not the fire. I did not mention the fire damage as being too high.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
8 posts
592 battles

After watching it i don't see any problem? Your aim was awful and his was spot on. Out of all of his salvos the vast majority of each shot hit were as most of your shots missed. In fact you said you had 9 confirmed hits, doesn't that mean you hit with 1 salvo +1 shot? I mean he hit you quite a substantial number more. From what i saw he won due to accuracy the number of shells he fired that hit the mark was a substantial number better then the number of shells you fired that hit the mark.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
86 posts
814 battles

After watching it i don't see any problem? Your aim was awful and his was spot on. Out of all of his salvos the vast majority of each shot hit were as most of your shots missed. In fact you said you had 9 confirmed hits, doesn't that mean you hit with 1 salvo +1 shot? I mean he hit you quite a substantial number more. From what i saw he won due to accuracy the number of shells he fired that hit the mark was a substantial number better then the number of shells you fired that hit the mark.

 

My salvos were aimed correctly (actually 50% hit rate for the first two salvos if you want to be technical), I cannot will them to not disperse the way they did. 

 

The point is, firing strictly HE and with damage from HE (not fire), annihilated an equal tier BB. I could do nothing to mitigate that damage, such as angling against AP, and my armor meant nothing to the HE damage. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
8 posts
592 battles

 

My salvos were aimed correctly (actually 50% hit rate for the first two salvos if you want to be technical), I cannot will them to not disperse the way they did. 

 

The point is, firing strictly HE and with damage from HE (not fire), annihilated an equal tier BB. I could do nothing to mitigate that damage, such as angling against AP, and my armor meant nothing to the HE damage. 

 

Well no they weren't really aimed correctly and there are actually 3 different ways to fire your cannons that can deal with different aiming difficulties such as dispersion. Also having a BB does not mean your immune to HE damage. It simply means you can take a lot more hits then other people. And indeed you did take an enormous amount of hits, if you had been in an Atlanta yourself, you would of died much much sooner. 

 

I am not sure exactly what i can tell you. The goal of the game is to create more explosions and poke more holes in the enemy ship then he does to you and indeed that is exactly what he did. 

Edited by palerider777

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
86 posts
814 battles

 

Well no they weren't really aimed correctly and there are actually 3 different ways to fire your cannons that can deal with different aiming difficulties such as dispersion. Also having a BB does not mean your immune to HE damage. It simply means you can take a lot more hits then other people. And indeed you did take an enormous amount of hits, if you had been in an Atlanta yourself, you would of died much much sooner. 

 

I am not sure exactly what i can tell you. The goal of the game is to create more explosion and poke more holes in the enemy ship then he does to you and indeed that is exactly what he did. 

 

Could you please enlighten me as to the incorrect aiming? I suppose the second set from the first salve was slightly behind, but there was still a citadel at the waterline. Also, every BB driver would like to know the magic to eliminate dispersion. 

 

Put it this way. If I was 9 km from two opposing equal tier BBs with the angle I had, I would have lived a lot longer. 

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,270
Alpha Tester, In AlfaTesters
4,441 posts
509 battles

 

Well no they weren't really aimed correctly and there are actually 3 different ways to fire your cannons that can deal with different aiming difficulties such as dispersion. Also having a BB does not mean your immune to HE damage. It simply means you can take a lot more hits then other people. And indeed you did take an enormous amount of hits, if you had been in an Atlanta yourself, you would of died much much sooner. 

 

I am not sure exactly what i can tell you. The goal of the game is to create more explosions and poke more holes in the enemy ship then he does to you and indeed that is exactly what he did. 

 

OP's aiming was fine for the most part. The problem isn't in his aiming, the problem is the way HE (not fires) deals so much damage on impact he's dying faster than he can repair, while taking fire from a light cruiser of the same tier, while heavily angling up to 14 inches of armour.
  • Cool 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
8 posts
592 battles

 

Could you please enlighten me as to the incorrect aiming? I suppose the second set from the first salve was slightly behind, but there was still a citadel at the waterline. Also, every BB driver would like to know the magic to eliminate dispersion. 

 

Put it this way. If I was 9 km from two opposing equal tier BBs with the angle I had, I would have lived a lot longer. 

 

Well firstly it helps to know your ship, the Colorado is notorious for its none traditional artillery pieces that are significantly different from its predecessor the new mexico. Furthermore its a battleship this means you fire slow and hit hard, meaning if you miss it a bigger deal then if a cruiser misses. You missed a lot. 

 

Secondly know your enemy. the Atlanta is a cruiser and one designed for rapid fire and close range its ideal target is something close and slow (You were both of those things). This creates a situation where the Atlanta can cash in on its rapid fire without of having to pay the cost of its shoddy range, and cash in it did. The player was able to fully exploit the situation and ensure maximum damage.

 

So now that we have established that the Atlanta commander was playing in an optimal way for his ship and you were not, it is easy to see why he won the engagement. It is also worth noting if a battleship had landed the same percentage of shots instead of the Atlanta, you still would have lost and possibly faster given that battleships benefit more from accuracy. 

 

Now to explain "Dispersion" It is a characteristic of each single gun barrel. As such it is important for you to look at and learn the extent of it in meters to help account for it. One must also factor in the proximity of the barrels on the turret. This can make dispersion predictable and calculable. It's also worth mentioning one can fire single shot, sequential, and full salvo. With practice one can learn the firing habits of each turret under each circumstance. 

 

Long story short, practice and math.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
86 posts
814 battles

 

Well firstly it helps to know your ship, the Colorado is notorious for its none traditional artillery pieces that are significantly different from its predecessor the new mexico. Furthermore its a battleship this means you fire slow and hit hard, meaning if you miss it a bigger deal then if a cruiser misses. You missed a lot. 

 

Secondly know your enemy. the Atlanta is a cruiser and one designed for rapid fire and close range its ideal target is something close and slow (You were both of those things). This creates a situation where the Atlanta can cash in on its rapid fire without of having to pay the cost of its shoddy range, and cash in it did. The player was able to fully exploit the situation and ensure maximum damage.

 

So now that we have established that the Atlanta commander was playing in an optimal way for his ship and you were not, it is easy to see why he won the engagement. It is also worth noting if a battleship had landed the same percentage of shots instead of the Atlanta, you still would have lost and possibly faster given that battleships benefit more from accuracy. 

 

Now to explain "Dispersion" It is a characteristic of each single gun barrel. As such it is important for you to look at and learn the extent of it in meters to help account for it. One must also factor in the proximity of the barrels on the turret. This can make dispersion predictable and calculable. It's also worth mentioning one can fire single shot, sequential, and full salvo. With practice one can learn the firing habits of each turret under each circumstance. 

 

Long story short, practice and math.

 

I honestly don't think you play this game. 

  • Cool 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
8 posts
592 battles

 

OP's aiming was fine for the most part. The problem isn't in his aiming, the problem is the way HE (not fires) deals so much damage on impact he's dying faster than he can repair, while taking fire from a light cruiser of the same tier, while heavily angling up to 14 inches of armour.

 

I am afraid you are wrong. Firstly his aiming was not fine, by my count he fired at least 3 salvos. That is 24 rounds, of his 24 he claims 9 hit.  That is an accuracy of 37.5% at best. I would not call that fine. Also we are talking 16 He shells falling on him with a reload speed of 5 seconds between salvo and the vast majority of shots hitting him. What exactly do you expect to happen? It played out exactly as it should have.
Edited by palerider777

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
8 posts
592 battles

 

I honestly don't think you play this game. 

 

Well i do actually and that is a pretty weak rebuttal. However i believe i have more than made my point. 
Edited by palerider777

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×