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NKato

The problem with raising the grind...it creates a "GOTTA GET XP" mindset...

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...to the detriment of the community.

 

I'm serious. When you make it more difficult to acquire XP in earlier levels, players are less inclined to play for the team, and and will only play for themselves. This means you'll have an increased prevalence of:

 

  • Lone wolves
  • Kill-stealers (people who deliberately hold fire until the ship you've been pummeling - and getting pummeled by - is barely alive, and snipes it from under your guns)
  • Less friendly players, more snark, more cynical people.
  • Overall, the game becomes less enjoyable.
  • End result: Higher player turnover rate - significantly reduced player retention rates.

 

Why hasn't Gaijin Entertainment and Wargaming.net learned this godsdamned lesson already?

 

OH RIGHT, it's because every time new players join the game, they're too gullible to realize all of the above until after about 3 months - by then Wargaming will have probably earned about $50 from each player. The developers/company does not have an incentive to actually improve player retention rates whatsoever.

Edited by NKato
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Alpha Tester
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kill stealers arn't really a problem. you don't get much exp compared to dealing damage. More damage more exp. kills only give a predetermined exp.

Not only that, I don't think there are any new players in yet. It isn't really open beta...

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Although i see your point and mostly agree with it...i do not 100% go with the overall objective.

 

I actually enjoy that it will be harder (=take longer) to get these ships, seeing as there are so few currently it will allow me to expand the amount of time i can potintially enjoy playing this game before i unlock all the things and become bored waiting for new things to do (seeing as there are also few modes and so few maps to play, gets very old very quickly i would think). That being said, i just really REALLY wish some of these ships didn't suck so much as they do.

 

Fix the ship suckage, everything else will fall into place Nya~ :D

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kill stealers arn't really a problem. you don't get much exp compared to dealing damage. More damage more exp. kills only give a predetermined exp.

Not only that, I don't think there are any new players in yet. It isn't really open beta...

 

The point is that the grind has gotten significantly worse compared to CBT, and this will probably turn off a sizable chunk of our CBT players from the game. What does this translate to? A significantly lower veteran player retention rate.

 

It means in the long term, we're going to see little more than a handful (compared to the totality of active users) of players who stick with the game for more than a year's worth of dedicated playtime.

 

June 27th, 2016? 60,000 players playing WoWS? Out of that many, less than 5,000 will probably be considered active one-year veterans.

 

Combine the current XP/grind rates with the rather sparse content in World of Warships, means that any new nations that get implemented will have the same level of grind, and most people who have already grinded their way up to tier 9/10 on US/IJN, will have very little appetite for grinding up the other nations. This is another factor that can lead to reduced player retention, and a high veteran turnover rate (again, means that we have fewer long-term veteran players).

 

Let me tell you what's going to happen if the new nations are implemented with this level of grind: I'm going to uninstall this game. I have found other games that are less likely to piss me off with the atrociously crappy rewards for the game experience it offers. Meaning, if I'm going to deal with such crappy grinds, the game has to be amazingly fun - and it isn't!

Edited by NKato
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Although i see your point and mostly agree with it...i do not 100% go with the overall objective.

 

I actually enjoy that it will be harder (=take longer) to get these ships, seeing as there are so few currently it will allow me to expand the amount of time i can potintially enjoy playing this game before i unlock all the things and become bored waiting for new things to do (seeing as there are also few modes and so few maps to play, gets very old very quickly i would think). That being said, i just really REALLY wish some of these ships didn't suck so much as they do.

 

Fix the ship suckage, everything else will fall into place Nya~ :D

 

That's nice. But I'm an adult who's in his thirties, and I don't feel like wasting a whole year of evening game time just to get one stinking ship at Tier 10. Even with premium. This is why I have an intense, burning hatred for any developer action that results in the grind being prolonged.
Edited by NKato
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That's nice. But I'm an adult who's in his thirties, and I don't feel like wasting a whole year of evening game time just to get one stinking ship at Tier 10. Even with premium. This is why I have an intense, burning hatred for any developer action that results in the grind being prolonged.

 

Well seeing as i have 2 jobs keeping me busy most days, and the fact that this is the only game i have to look forward to playing (besides the upcoming AC game later this(?) year) i plan on trying to take my time with the grind once i have my precious Nagato. All others do not interest me as much so therefor are not a sole motivator to grind...would hate to get all of the ships in the game and then be left with "well, now wtham i gonna play?"...nothing is worse (in my opinion) that 100% completing a MMO, because unless it is REALLY great or you have a REALLY great group of people you play with, just losses its appeal very quickly for me.

 

But i guess thats just me Nya~! 

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Long grinding time? Welcome to free to play. A game type that is just truly awful, I can only think of one game that actually pulls it off well and that's Planetside. But that game doesn't have some sort of tree to go down, which is another poor design choice. It works, just not in free to play. 

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What the OP is complaining about is why I didn't play much during CBT. I played enough to get the reward ship and get a feel for the game, then I saved my sanity for when OBT came along and the game was more like it will be when it's released. Everyone and their dog knew that the economy and grinds were going to change once the hardcore testing in alpha and CBT were over. Can't test the full game when everyone is at the mid tiers. Now that the big parts of the game (should be) figured out, it's time to fine tune and that will involve having the game more like it's final version. This means not having everyone playing tier 10s within a month and having the game be more like it's tank based sibling.

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They gave everyone the Arkansas to help lvl easier. You just have to buy doubloons with cash to convert the free xp. lol they think they are slick.

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Of course your going to fly through levels in CBT, how else would you test the game. Now that its pretty much in it released state sit back and just enjoy the ships, yes some suck having to go through but that is the same of any game of this type.

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The trick is not playing with the mindset that reaching tier 10 is the ultimate goal. If you play to enjoy the game, it will be much pleasant and feel less like a job. For instance, I knew that it was going to take much more XP once the CBT were over. So I used the CBT and the 0.4 tests to grind up to ships I wanted to check out. Now I have a really good understanding of what I want to go for and I'm just enjoying the game. But in the end, whatever floats your boat. 

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Well seeing as i have 2 jobs keeping me busy most days, and the fact that this is the only game i have to look forward to playing (besides the upcoming AC game later this(?) year) i plan on trying to take my time with the grind once i have my precious Nagato. All others do not interest me as much so therefor are not a sole motivator to grind...would hate to get all of the ships in the game and then be left with "well, now wtham i gonna play?"...nothing is worse (in my opinion) that 100% completing a MMO, because unless it is REALLY great or you have a REALLY great group of people you play with, just losses its appeal very quickly for me.

 

But i guess thats just me Nya~! 

I feel that same way about USS New York/Texas. Plan on spending some time in that monster. I likes Wyoming too, but with Arkansas I feel I will be set there.

 

At leat until the RN comes out. Then I will be all in trying to nab KG V, Nelson, Royal Oak and Repulse.

 

Thinking about going in on Japan's excellent Heavy Cruiser line too.

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Well seeing as i have 2 jobs keeping me busy most days, and the fact that this is the only game i have to look forward to playing (besides the upcoming AC game later this(?) year) i plan on trying to take my time with the grind once i have my precious Nagato. All others do not interest me as much so therefor are not a sole motivator to grind...would hate to get all of the ships in the game and then be left with "well, now wtham i gonna play?"...nothing is worse (in my opinion) that 100% completing a MMO, because unless it is REALLY great or you have a REALLY great group of people you play with, just losses its appeal very quickly for me.

 

But i guess thats just me Nya~! 

 

I think there are a lot of people that think your way. I know I have certain ships I am grinding to, but the prices for modules I think is too high for the amount of money I make.  It could also be a perception after being spoiled in CBT. :B

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no need to rush to t10 and get murdered by cv's.  Get murdered by then at t5 and have fun.

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Get the phrase "Kill Stealer" out of your vocabulary for a game like this. I don't care if a ship has 5 HP left, its guns are still firing, and still doing damage to my team. If my loads are up, i'm gonna take the shot just to dispose of the threat. And you should too. 

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Fix the world of Napalm and it might be enjoyable, one thing I cant stand is watching my hp bar go down by continuous fires and cant do anything about it. BB's accuracy is a joke while the cruisers can shoot repeatably at you and no rng in it whatsoever.

Arkansas needs aa I don't know how many times you get mm and of course there is cv's and you cant do nothing about it. There is no balance at all for BB's since 4.0 was released now it feels like your the sacrificial lamb do to its pathetic rng and shot dispersion.

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What would you rather have? 

Fast grind =  less experienced people at the upper tiers making poor decisions/ tactical errors causing you to lose games you shouldn't? I am in my Cleveland currently and the majority of games I am facing tier 7 and tier 8 cruisers. 75% of these captains have no clue what they are doing and it is effecting the games. Of course it is 50/50 but frustrating all the same to see an Atlanta charge in two a 3 deep BB line and get his pants pulled down.

Slow grind = The crap stays at the lower tiers and the skill at the upper tiers rise resulting in you having more quality games that come down to the overall skill level on your team and less on what teams has more crap captains thanks to matchmaking.

 

Personally, I know my skill level will increase when I am facing competent captains so the slow grind is of no consequence.

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Fix the world of Napalm and it might be enjoyable, one thing I cant stand is watching my hp bar go down by continuous fires and cant do anything about it. BB's accuracy is a joke while the cruisers can shoot repeatably at you and no rng in it whatsoever.

Arkansas needs aa I don't know how many times you get mm and of course there is cv's and you cant do nothing about it. There is no balance at all for BB's since 4.0 was released now it feels like your the sacrificial lamb do to its pathetic rng and shot dispersion.

 

BB rage is kind of a joke. DD's took it in the shorts and if you dont like fire, buy the captain slot. Of course, I am a cruiser pilot so I am just fine with the fire rng at this point :)

Oh, park the Arkansas and grind up a proper ship. I could cut the floor board out of that thing and Flintstones turn it faster than it can currently turn.

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...I find it funny that anyone would be complaining about this in a Wargaming "World of" title.  And it was specifically stated in the CBT that the reward rates had been raised to much higher than normal levels.

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Jorma has a good point, but I also agree about the problems that 'grinding' create in terms of mindset. 

 

I certainly don't want to have Tier 7/8 players on my team that signed up for the game last week, but I also don't want players on my team with a WGAF (who gives a f...) mindset either because they are playing a boat they hate and is for all intents and purposes underpowered (Furutaka, Pensacola, Nagato)

 

You can fix a lot of this by balancing ships better and quit with the crap boats deliberately put in the game to try and get players to buy gold and free XP past them.  

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Get the phrase "Kill Stealer" out of your vocabulary for a game like this. I don't care if a ship has 5 HP left, its guns are still firing, and still doing damage to my team. If my loads are up, i'm gonna take the shot just to dispose of the threat. And you should too. 

 

Well, the fact is; you dont have a team. What you have is:

the need to personally generate millions of points of experience in order to advance to the topmost tier while being grouped against 29 random people who all have the same need to gather those same millions of exp points, while playing a match with a decided limitation of available experience that can be earned which is itself dependent on any number of variables used to define how much exp you can get.

Now, the key word here is random. As long as you have random groups of people, all with the same individual need, you dont have a team. There are no team scores, and there are no team bonuses. Your openly competing against fourteen other people who are out to sink fifteen other ships  and the only way for you to get ahead is to sink as many of those fifteen other ships as possible. But since theres no real team, that means all the other people on your team also have to sink as many of those fifteen other ships as possible. So,  at the very worst, you walk away from a match with nothing, and at the best?? Who knows. Maybe you can carry, maybe you cant. And you do this thousands of times over and over again. The only thing that changes are the maps. You think the grind for tier 9 and tier 10 tanks is bad?? Wait till you get a load of the grind your gonna have here..

Lets take the Atago to use as an example, because exp isnt the only thing your grinding..

The Atago has five upgrade slots. The fifth and final upgrade has two interchangeable variations that cost two million silver each.  Thats four million silver in currency you have to acquire to afford those upgrades, not to mention the other four types of upgrades and their variants. In the end you need over seven million silver to upgrade the ship, not counting what you would need to upgrade components such as hulls and guns.

Research cost on the Zao/Senjo stands at 238000 exp and some unknown amount of silver. And thATS JUST ONE SHIP. You have ten tiers of ships to work through; all with the same costs.

Of course, if your single and work a good job, you can drop a couple thousand dollars and get all the gold and silver you need to get to tier ten in no time, but you still have to grind those several thousand exp to get there, at a few hundred exp at a time ( for the average player of course. There will be those few who excel at it and will get a couple thousand exp per game every now and then )..

There are no teams: only competition. The other fourteen people on your side could care less about the over all results of the team beyond winning the match because each is after his or her own personal needs to acquire silver and exp, and your just someone else who can keep accomplishing that from them.

My personal feeling is that the grind in this game is ludicrous at this point and makes it stupid to even contemplate trying for anything other than the infrequent game for chuckles in a tier one or two ship in co--op.. I realize this is wargaming's oh so subtle way of frustrating players into buying gold and silver and premium time, but i dont need that frustration. I dont enjoy being frustrated or angry or upset or feeling defeated or overwhelmed, and i certainly dont need it all wrapped into one package thats supposed to be entertainment. Its not bad enough to drive me away, but i cannot take this game seriously for even a second at this point. Its barely worth my time as it stands right now. I feel there are others like me as well who will focus on more entertaining games where you can concentrate on having fun and not have to deal with the crushing grind or the pay to win bull that you see here right now..

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I'm just annoyed that you now have to grind through TWO Battleships to get to the Carrier lines.

 

Playing battleships is like being skinned alive and rolled in salt.  Battleships are garbage, and people gripe a lot about carriers.  I wonder if changing the tech trees up was a one-two 'take that' punch.

 

EDIT: This is a personal opinion. Other people actually *like* playing battleships for some unfathomable reason.  *shudder*

Edited by BitPlayerCOH

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Welcome to "The Hook."

 

Get stuff to buy things so you can get more stuff in order to buy better things so you can get even more stuff to buy even better things.

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[WOLFH]
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The grinding can get really old fast. It's also annoying how the urge to get past disliked ships can foster such a lone-wolf mind-set in so many players. It would great if WG could implement some sort of reward system for good teamwork. I admit I'm not sure *how*, but as it sits there is little incentive for random players to even try to work together (the more forward-thinking among us are aware of the tactical value of coordination but this doesn't appear to apply to all players).

 

Maybe this is some sort of heresy, but even implementing an XP bonus for saving other players like a certain other game does would be a start. I also wouldn't mind a MechWarrior-Online-ish small XP bonus for "sailing in formation" and the like; every little bit helps, especially if you don't care for the tub you're driving...

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