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MM_and_RNG_are_Rigged

Smoke Screen Generators = Usless after 0.4.0?

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Okay. I'd seriously like to know why the heck i've had 20 seconds taken away from my smoke screen generators to be put into a 2 minute 8% speed boost on my DDs.

 

And I mean i'm serious. What logic allowed them to come up with this?

 

At 20 seconds long, the smoke screen is done deploying before you even get a chance to make even a quarter circle. It can no longer be used defensively as by the time it finishes you're still heading out away from the screen as you turn to get back behind it. And now on top of it all, you only get 2 charges with a MASSIVE cooldown. These things in of themselves don't force tactical game play, they force you to use them as (ineffective) panic button cooldowns. You cannot even use the smoke screen as an offensive cooldown like you could before to attempt an approach against a larger target.

 

It's made USN DDs all but useless, and IJN DDs, even with their longer range, still have to get in suicidally close at times to ensure solid hits.

 

Ultimately it's WG's game and if they want to ruin it by making radical and stupid decisions like this, then by all means, be my guest.

 

All I want to know is *WHY* you did it.

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Just a shot in the dark but perhaps because the 40 second smoke screen that effectively obliterated a sizable portion of the map for several minutes was OP and cause some players with borderline PC's to have performance issues?

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Okay. I'd seriously like to know why the heck i've had 20 seconds taken away from my smoke screen generators to be put into a 2 minute 8% speed boost on my DDs.

 

And I mean i'm serious. What logic allowed them to come up with this?

 

At 20 seconds long, the smoke screen is done deploying before you even get a chance to make even a quarter circle. It can no longer be used defensively as by the time it finishes you're still heading out away from the screen as you turn to get back behind it. And now on top of it all, you only get 2 charges with a MASSIVE cooldown. These things in of themselves don't force tactical game play, they force you to use them as (ineffective) panic button cooldowns. You cannot even use the smoke screen as an offensive cooldown like you could before to attempt an approach against a larger target.

 

It's made USN DDs all but useless, and IJN DDs, even with their longer range, still have to get in suicidally close at times to ensure solid hits.

 

Ultimately it's WG's game and if they want to ruin it by making radical and stupid decisions like this, then by all means, be my guest.

 

All I want to know is *WHY* you did it.

 

 

I contend that WG hasn't ruined a single thing by making the DD smoke generation be less OP. Prior to patch there was PLENTY of evidence that 2 destroyers in a cap with alternating smoke screens to cap out and not ONCE be detected - that was seriously game breaking for a single cap (quick cap win). 

 

Secondly, the idea is to make a smoke screen helpful and more of a team oriented screen rather than an impervious defensive shield to hide behind IMHO. I LOVE playing DDs, but am not of the ilk that says every advantage must be massive for my DD play. In fact, the devastation that a good or lucky DD has on a flank or area of the battle precludes the idea that DDs should have ANY OP ability. Speed boost DOES get you out of trouble rather quickly if  you are playing the islands or the spotting range perimeter well, and the smoke screen does last nearly the same amount of time - it just doesn't cover a 2 KM straight line of distance anymore - and that is an improvement IMO. 

 

 

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I would like to know why they changed certain game mechanics so drastically just before the game goes to open Beta while they had stayed virtually the same through out all of closed Beta. We're apparently just days from open beta and this barely feels like the same game. It's like why did we even bother with the last few months if they were just going to do whatever anyway. You can't even effectively gauge an individual change this patch since they changed so much.

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I would like to know why they changed certain game mechanics so drastically just before the game goes to open Beta while they had stayed virtually the same through out all of closed Beta. We're apparently just days from open beta and this barely feels like the same game. It's like why did we even bother with the last few months if they were just going to do whatever anyway. You can't even effectively gauge an individual change this patch since they changed so much.

 

This is exactly what I'm getting at.

 

Okay, I can understand bumping the cooldown timer up to 2 minutes, maybe 2 and a half. but almost 3 and a half minutes without smoke is deadly.

 

I can also understand reducing the duration for the screens, but to cut it in half is too drastic a change to be done immediately. They should've dropped it to 30 seconds, down from 40, and bumped the cooldown up to 2 minutes 30 seconds. Have the screen last for 45 seconds to a minute before dispersing.

 

It feels like with DDs, we were a tripod and they went and kicked out one of our legs and cut another one in half.

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It does drastically change the playstyle... and I feel like once you balance it properly with the superbooster, DD's will still be just as good.  Maybe it'll encourage some more aggressive plays from DDs -- instead of sitting in smoke, waiting for ships to approach, they'll charge out, lay a spread, then charge back into the smoke.  The must smaller area that smoke can now cover certainly would encourage that play.

 

It is somewhat disconcerting that WG did such a drastic change just before OBT -- however, when else could they change it?  Likely after the large amount of data they'd gotten, they realized a change needed to be made, and this was the last time they could realistically do it (before thousands of OBT players complained).

 

 

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I will go back to spending my money elsewhere...pretty much not worth playing now and I dont like the other ship classes.

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Thats fine with us other ship classes that got sick of watching coward DDs hit us with guns and cap out while they are invisible.

 

 

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I contend that WG hasn't ruined a single thing by making the DD smoke generation be less OP. Prior to patch there was PLENTY of evidence that 2 destroyers in a cap with alternating smoke screens to cap out and not ONCE be detected - that was seriously game breaking for a single cap (quick cap win). 

 

Secondly, the idea is to make a smoke screen helpful and more of a team oriented screen rather than an impervious defensive shield to hide behind IMHO. I LOVE playing DDs, but am not of the ilk that says every advantage must be massive for my DD play. In fact, the devastation that a good or lucky DD has on a flank or area of the battle precludes the idea that DDs should have ANY OP ability. Speed boost DOES get you out of trouble rather quickly if  you are playing the islands or the spotting range perimeter well, and the smoke screen does last nearly the same amount of time - it just doesn't cover a 2 KM straight line of distance anymore - and that is an improvement IMO. 

 

 

 

There was literally nothing gamebreaking about it. You simply sit at the other end of cap and pretty much nothing happens.

 

The problem here was everyone was somehow afraid of like some 1000 damage every 5 seconds. Oh yeah, I'm so afraid of melting in 10-15 minutes that I'd let myself get capped in 3. The upcoming (and present) cruisers acoustics was more than enough to highly deter DDs from doing that, but nope. Completely unusable smokes.

 

Also you're not going to lay anything worth a damn for the team with that short duration smoke. Seriously. With that duration it's pretty much only useful as a selfish panic weapon for when you get lit.

 

Thats fine with us other ship classes that got sick of watching coward DDs hit us with guns and cap out while they are invisible.

 

 

You say that, yet you're too scared to just sit on the other end of cap, which would completely stop whatever they were doing. Okay. Pretty much all circles are big enough you can stay >4km from old smoke, and if you get hit by stealth torps you need to stop alt tabbing between reloads. Porn isn't that important that you need to play like an idiot.

 

Why so cowardly?

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Yeah not really loving the new smoke. Ive only played the tier 2 USN DD so far but not only is my smoke not rendering but the short deploy time, long recharge time, and the two charges just really hurts them. The only thing I find the speed boost useful for is trying to run down that escaping CV but Id rather have more/better smoke. I think since IJN DD get way better torpedo to detection range stats USN should have better smoke. Maybe a longer run time than IJN but both have 3 charges and roughly the same recharge time. I understand USN DD's are better fast gunboats with torps as a "If the situation arises" weapon but I think they need just a little more to even things out. Also the dispersion rate on the BB's is just so bad. A BB is suppose to be big, slow, solid hp and armor, and big guns that wreck. They have a long reload and a slow traverse so why have the shells go all over the place so even a perfectly aimed shot only hits 2 out 10? As it stands hi ROF CA's with HE will just melt most BB's. A CA player should be worried about trying to solo a BB of same tier but right now I'm not afraid of them at all. Part of the reason I quit playing WoT was taking out my IS-3 with the 122mm and bouncing shells of the broad side of a medium tank just to have him pen me 3 times in a row in the same time it takes me to reload just to either dirt a shot or bounce again. And he wasn't even running circles around me and using mobility it was literally trading shots and unless you get a lucky crit the bigger ship with bigger guns should win an straight up slugging match. CA's should have to work together or with DD's to beat down BB's. You know, teamwork, but this game is lacking that key component that is suppose to make teams work together to win and instead tries to make everyone a one man army. I like games with different classes of vehicles or mechs so that each has a role and each player plays their rolls and works together to win. This is just my opinions on the game and why it doesn't appeal to me. I'm not trying to crap on the game and say it's bad or on those who honestly like this game and think it's great. Everyone likes what they like and this isn't really something I like anymore and that's just me.

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I'm not normally one to complain about game mechanics, but this unneeded change to DD smoke has me scratching my head. What was already a tense "if they see me I die" battle has gone to "well, I'm a free xp piniata". This is one change the devs have made that needs to be hotfixed back to close to its 0.3.1.5 values.

 

Terrible design choice. No more money for Wargaming til its addressed.

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I'd buff the smoke times a bit and give battleships back some accuracy to keep them from whining about it. US dd's just look unappealing now.

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I'd buff the smoke times a bit and give battleships back some accuracy to keep them from whining about it. US dd's just look unappealing now.

 

You are so damn right! American DDs at the mid tiers in particular. If this is going to stay. The torps that American DDs get in the mid tiers need at least a 7 kilometer range. Or give the ones that they have and allow us to replace it with a metric ton of 5in rockets. 
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I contend that WG hasn't ruined a single thing by making the DD smoke generation be less OP. Prior to patch there was PLENTY of evidence that 2 destroyers in a cap with alternating smoke screens to cap out and not ONCE be detected - that was seriously game breaking for a single cap (quick cap win). 

 

Secondly, the idea is to make a smoke screen helpful and more of a team oriented screen rather than an impervious defensive shield to hide behind IMHO. I LOVE playing DDs, but am not of the ilk that says every advantage must be massive for my DD play. In fact, the devastation that a good or lucky DD has on a flank or area of the battle precludes the idea that DDs should have ANY OP ability. Speed boost DOES get you out of trouble rather quickly if  you are playing the islands or the spotting range perimeter well, and the smoke screen does last nearly the same amount of time - it just doesn't cover a 2 KM straight line of distance anymore - and that is an improvement IMO. 

 

 

 

I think this is the only logical reply in this thread, and somebody who is actually a fair sportsman. Unlike some of you cowards who want the ability to sit in a smokescreen and pummel other ships with your deck guns because they can't fire back. That can kind of mentality is ruining online gaming in general. Maybe put a rootkit on my PC so you have an advantage? Put a hyperspace engine on DD's so they can warp to any side of the board at will? How much of crutch do you need?

 

Anyways, my theory is that high tier DD's are severely over performing and and able to pull off game altering tactics just like this. Wargaming once again tries to compensate for an inbalance by creating another one.

 

What should have happened is smokescreen times should have been reduced, and perhaps add a bit of RNG to make them a bit random in terms of duration. However, cool down times should have been reduced as well to make things fair. I like the challenge and cat and mouse of dueling with competent DD players who know how to time their smoke screens, and DD's running in the open with long cool down times isn't really fair either, so I'm on your side in that respect.  

 

What disgusts other player in this game are DD's sitting on a cap racking up the timer with their cloaking device engaged and beating lower tier ships to death because they can't hit you back. Tier 9 and 10 DD's can do this to lower tier cruisers easily.  That's garbage. Drastically reducing your invisibility while firing like WoT did with DD's, but giving more frequent but less long smokescreens would have made everybody happy, IMO.

Edited by Scotty_SE
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I think this is the only logical reply in this thread, and somebody who is actually a fair sportsman. Unlike some of you cowards who want the ability to sit in a smokescreen and pummel other ships with your deck guns because they can't fire back. That can kind of mentality is ruining online gaming in general. Maybe put a rootkit on my PC so you have an advantage? Put a hyperspace engine on DD's so they can warp to any side of the board at will? How much of crutch do you need?

 

Anyways, my theory is that high tier DD's are severely over performing and and able to pull off game altering tactics just like this. Wargaming once again tries to compensate for an inbalance by creating another one.

 

What should have happened is smokescreen times should have been reduced, and perhaps add a bit of RNG to make them a bit random in terms of duration. However, cool down times should have been reduced as well to make things fair. I like the challenge and cat and mouse of dueling with competent DD players who know how to time their smoke screens, and DD's running in the open with long cool down times isn't really fair either, so I'm on your side in that respect.  

 

What disgusts other player in this game are DD's sitting on a cap racking up the timer with their cloaking device engaged and beating lower tier ships to death because they can't hit you back. Tier 9 and 10 DD's can do this to lower tier cruisers easily.  That's garbage. Drastically reducing your invisibility while firing like WoT did with DD's, but giving more frequent but less long smokescreens would have made everybody happy, IMO.

 

And again, gotta repeat. How are you so cowardly you can't even sit at the other end of the cap and basically completely shut down capping?

 

Afraid of what....1000 damage every 10 seconds? Oh yeah, so scared, going to die in 10 minutes.

 

Why so cowardly?

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The thing is they both reduced the smoke duration AND the number of smokes a DD has. Now if they had tweaked it a bit by adjusting one or the other, it might have had a positive effect without feeling like a massive nerf. I still very much enjoy playing DDs and I have adjusted my playstyle accordingly, but they do feel less fun to play. Oh and also, the torpedo warning is another tweak that modified DD gameplay directly. Anyway, I'm sure we'll see some sort of tweak in the future. 

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USN DDs are pretty much unplayable until you get 10-11km gun range (where hitting a DD becomes difficult,) but that doesn't happen until maybe Farragut.

 

Until then you are pretty much suicide DD material.

 

IJN still rely on stealth torps so they are marginally less affected. In fact the engine ability is probably a better skill than the smoke for them. Still a nerf though.

 

If this is going to happen torp detectability needs to be extremely short. .5km or something like that. On some off chance you are stupid enough to travel at a constant velocity (speed and direction) for 40+ seconds (minimum stealth torp travel time) you do not deserve the chance to dodge even a single torp for being that retarded.

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That is why i dont play DD now... huge nerfs and great buffs to CAs and BB. Right now every class except for DDs have a plane to explore. And a skill to target you in the smoke. Its so hard to ambush that its ridiculous.

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This is exactly what I'm getting at.

 

Okay, I can understand bumping the cooldown timer up to 2 minutes, maybe 2 and a half. but almost 3 and a half minutes without smoke is deadly.

 

I can also understand reducing the duration for the screens, but to cut it in half is too drastic a change to be done immediately. They should've dropped it to 30 seconds, down from 40, and bumped the cooldown up to 2 minutes 30 seconds. Have the screen last for 45 seconds to a minute before dispersing.

 

It feels like with DDs, we were a tripod and they went and kicked out one of our legs and cut another one in half.

 

This.  A slight nerf was needed but not a massive one. 
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I'd buff the smoke times a bit and give battleships back some accuracy to keep them from whining about it. US dd's just look unappealing now.

 

This is the whole crux of the problem. Like I said, the nerfs didn't really bother IJN DDs too much as starting at tier 2, they already get long range torpedoes starting at 5.5km and bumping up to 7km with the upgraded ones on Umikaze. They also get plenty of concealment due to being so tiny and low to the ocean surface. That allows them to launch their torpedoes (their main armament, because lets face it, their guns are laughable at best) from ~relative~ safety provided they plan their attack right.

 

USN DDs torp range is 4.5km clear up to, iirc, tier 7, at which you get 7km torps. Fat lotta good that does us when our detection range is close to 7km already, lower tiers it's impossible to launch a volley of torpedoes WITHOUT being spotted. That was the whole caveat. If you wanted small, fast attack boats you could use to knife-fight other DDs, you played the USN because of their VASTLY superior guns. Well when we used the smoke screens as defensive/offensive combined cooldowns, it helped keep us concealed while we plinked away at targets with our guns. Can't do that anymore due to the duration nerf as well as the size of the screen when it's set. The only thing you can do with your smoke effectively as a USN is to turn it on when you're running away in a straight line from your enemies. THEN it will work like you need it to.

 

Change the duration to 30 seconds (halfway between 20 and 40), decrease the cooldown to 2m 30sec (halfway between 1:30 and 3:30), and do one of the following:

 

a) leave the new, shorter dispersion time of the screen and give us our additional charge back, bringing us back up to 3 charges.

b) bring us back to the original dispersion time of the screen, but leave the charges at 2.

c) go halfway between the new disperse time and the old one, and give us the option of dropping the 2 speed boosters for 1 additional charge of smoke at the cost of an additional 30 seconds added to the above (2 min 30 sec) cooldown, bringing total cooldown time to 3 minutes.

Edited by NoLove_NoNothing
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They need to do something, Smoke is basically worthless now.  I used to screen for my team, now I hit the smoke and... it ends.  Hell, I can't even use it and everything sees through it anyway.  As added fun it renders on my screen for me maybe 50% of the time.  So yeah, I'll hide behind it... if I could tell where it was.  Not that it matter since it dissipates before I can even get out of spotting range anyway.

 

I skipped USN DDs because it was already terrible the old way and with the nerfs there is basically no point.  Sadly I have a Sims, which is practically useless.  I'm a gimped Atlanta.  Great.  Good thing every shot from anything takes out a gun and I have a whopping 4 of them.  At least I'm spotted at 7.6 km so I can line up a torp run at 5.5km that WILL miss because who the hell is stupid enough not see that coming?  Of course I don't care because I'm dead from charging into the fray for the last 2kms hoping to do something. 

 

The only thing they're really good for is spotting early on and killing IJN DDs in most situations.  

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The combination of smoke nerfs and cruiser detection buffs kinda killed smoke completely

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They need to do something, Smoke is basically worthless now.  I used to screen for my team, now I hit the smoke and... it ends.  Hell, I can't even use it and everything sees through it anyway.  As added fun it renders on my screen for me maybe 50% of the time.  So yeah, I'll hide behind it... if I could tell where it was.  Not that it matter since it dissipates before I can even get out of spotting range anyway.

 

I skipped USN DDs because it was already terrible the old way and with the nerfs there is basically no point.  Sadly I have a Sims, which is practically useless.  I'm a gimped Atlanta.  Great.  Good thing every shot from anything takes out a gun and I have a whopping 4 of them.  At least I'm spotted at 7.6 km so I can line up a torp run at 5.5km that WILL miss because who the hell is stupid enough not see that coming?  Of course I don't care because I'm dead from charging into the fray for the last 2kms hoping to do something. 

 

The only thing they're really good for is spotting early on and killing IJN DDs in most situations.  

If they plan on keeping it like this, they ought to remove the limited # of charges from it at least.

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