Can we remove AP from anything tier 7 and bellow?

[rocketdrive]

Ap only seems effective in super high tier matches where not only the difference between HE and AP damage is huge but also the health pools are large enough to matter. 

[Red_Raven_168]

if you did that

 

how would lower tiers learn when and where to switch to AP

[WinterIess]

No.

[powerkilroy]

But then how would I citadel Clevelands???

 

-Powerkilroy

[Im_The_Seeker2]

No.

Seconded.

[Macabe]

Why? That would just make people spam HE more.

[Faolan1237]

Nyet! Nyet! Never!

[Tears_of_Destiny]

Ap only seems effective in super high tier matches where not only the difference between HE and AP damage is huge but also the health pools are large enough to matter. 

 

A Pensacola without AP is unadulterated garbage, I don't know how else to say that. The Tier 5 and 6 IJN cruisers also have large enough guns that it makes a substantial difference when firing AP at appropriate targets.

 

A Cleveland is armored enough that a lot of ships would do well enough to use AP against it, as it has enough armor to adsorb substantial HE damage yet not enough to completely shrug off low-caliber AP. Around 150mm or so in the thickest parts iirc. This is just one example.

[rocketdrive]

if you did that

 

how would lower tiers learn when and where to switch to AP

implying that AP is useful in low tier...

Why? That would just make people spam HE more.

 

implying people don't already spam HE.....

[Tears_of_Destiny]

implying that AP is useful in low tier...

 

implying people don't already spam HE.....

 

Have you used the St. Louis with AP? If you can aim, you can take out another St. lois far faster with AP spam then HE, as it's a crapload of Citadels what with the huge boiler room, bunch fo smoke stacks to aim under, and a bajillion of magazines under the bajillion of guns it has. Same with the Kawachi as an example, or any of the BBs trying to murder another BB or citadel a CA/CL/CV.

[Guest]

That is exceptionally poor as a game-making choice, it would...only make it worse. 

[rocketdrive]

 

Have you used the St. Louis with AP? If you can aim, you can take out another St. lois far faster with AP spam then HE, as it's a crapload of Citadels what with the huge boiler room, bunch fo smoke stacks to aim under, and a bajillion of magazines under the bajillion of guns it has. Same with the Kawachi as an example, or any of the BBs trying to murder another BB or citadel a CA/CL/CV.

 

Implying fire damage doesnt make you have the same DPS....

[Tears_of_Destiny]

 

Implying fire damage doesnt make you have the same DPS....

 

So basically you're just terrible at citadels and can't properly use ships like the Nagato which is a tier 7 ship that wonderfully rewards and enables good aiming, is what you're saying, nor the New Mexico another accurate BB, tier 5, that can citadel like no other in its tier... Or you're hyperboling.

 

I'm not saying HE is spammed, and it can be certainly devastating especially when on a ship like the Cleveland or when shooting thin ships, or ships too thick or angled to properly pen, but AP is far from useless.

 

EDIT: Yup, you average damage on the Negato is substantially lower then your Kongo or your Fuso, oh for shame 

[rocketdrive]

 

So basically you're just terrible at citadels and can't properly use ships like the Nagato which is a tier 7 ship that wonderfully rewards and enables good aiming, is what you're saying, nor the New Mexico another accurate BB, tier 5, that can citadel like no other in its tier... Or you're hyperboling.

 

I'm not saying HE is spammed, and it can be certainly devastating especially when on a ship like the Cleveland or when shooting thin ships, or ships too thick or angled to properly pen, but AP is far from useless.

 

EDIT: Yup, you average damage on the Negato is substantially lower then your Kongo or your Fuso, oh for shame 

 

sorry i dont use aim mod? not sure what your trying too prove there...

[Tears_of_Destiny]

 

sorry i dont use aim mod? not sure what your trying too prove there...

 

I'm trying to prove that if you can aim, then AP is better against the appropriate targets, and the Negato, New Mexico, and Pensacola are all perfect examples of this and all tier 7 or lower.

 

http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/21813-nagato-is-superior-to-fuso-explained/#topmost

 

Saying AP is useless on everything tier 7 and lower is rediculous, I'm saying, and that a BB using nothing but HE is at a disadvantage against a BB using nothing but AP

[rocketdrive]

 

I'm trying to prove that if you can aim, then AP is better against the appropriate targets, and the Negato, New Mexico, and Pensacola are all perfect examples of this and all tier 7 or lower.

 

http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/21813-nagato-is-superior-to-fuso-explained/#topmost

 

Saying AP is useless on everything tier 7 and lower is rediculous, I'm saying, and that a BB using nothing but HE is at a disadvantage against a BB using nothing but AP

 

Hence why every time a BB using HE goes against another BB using AP in a knife fight the HE always wins out...ohwait...

only under constrained circumstances, and the support of RNG-esus, does AP actually prove to be better than HE. 

 

Even the devs stated HE was the better shell to use cause they based the damage balanced between the two on a fight in a similar scenario that you described. Unfortunately for you, the HE won out, so devs are intentionally making HE the better choice. 

 

dont get me wrong if you got aim mod then sure AP is better cause citadels. 

[AzraeI]

No, if you can aim at all then you will win out with AP rounds.  HE is all well and good when you can't reliably punch through to the citadel.  But at close range, usually around 8 to 10 km, a BB can reliable put hits into the citadel.  Having more DPS from HE is great because of the fire, but getting hits that do 25,000+ damage means the fight is over much faster.

[rocketdrive]

No, if you can aim at all then you will win out with AP rounds.  HE is all well and good when you can't reliably punch through to the citadel.  But at close range, usually around 8 to 10 km, a BB can reliable put hits into the citadel.  Having more DPS from HE is great because of the fire, but getting hits that do 25,000+ damage means the fight is over much faster.

 

If, again, RNGesus says it's ok. 

 

so aside from constrained circumstances that are partially reliant on RNGesus HE is better? glad we sorted that out. 

[Macabe]

 

Hence why every time a BB using HE goes against another BB using AP in a knife fight the HE always wins out...ohwait...

only under constrained circumstances, and the support of RNG-esus, does AP actually prove to be better than HE. 

 

I have never lost a battle in my BB against another BB when they used HE and i used AP. In that circumstance AP>HE. It's all about those citadels and proper leading. Now if you can't beat the HE spammer, then there's something seriously wrong.

[rocketdrive]

I have never lost a battle in my BB against another BB when they used HE and i used AP. In that circumstance AP>HE. It's all about those citadels and proper leading. Now if you can't beat the HE spammer, then there's something seriously wrong.

 

Because you totally know what shell type they are using. that'd be the same thing as me saying:

 

"I've never lost in any fight when I was sailing a kawachi against a De Moins" Hyperbole there just to make my point that much more obvious, though technically my statement is more true than yours since my kawachi has never seen a De Moins. 

[bodidlyharp]

Ap only seems effective in super high tier matches where not only the difference between HE and AP damage is huge but also the health pools are large enough to matter. 

 

Sir I really disagree.  When I first started in my BBs, I was firing default ammo (HE).  After 3.1 I was spaming HE.  Wonderful fires ya know.  Then I read the Tedster and started using AP.  I am not getting as many fires now but I am pening a whole lot more citadels and my damage has gone up considerably.  I am one-shoting dds and cruisers--even a few BBs.  AP is really effective at the lower tiers too.  Tedster is correct.

 

bo

[bodidlyharp]

 

I'm trying to prove that if you can aim, then AP is better against the appropriate targets, and the Negato, New Mexico, and Pensacola are all perfect examples of this and all tier 7 or lower.

 

http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/21813-nagato-is-superior-to-fuso-explained/#topmost

 

Saying AP is useless on everything tier 7 and lower is rediculous, I'm saying, and that a BB using nothing but HE is at a disadvantage against a BB using nothing but AP

I fully concur Tears.  You are so correct and enemy BBs find that out when they face my Tier 6 New Mexico and Fuso (As they did my Tier 5 New York and Kongo and Tier 4 Wyoming and Myogi).  Hurray for AP.  It even works mightily on cruisers and dds sometimes with one-shots.

bo

[Tears_of_Destiny]

Because you totally know what shell type they are using. that'd be the same thing as me saying:

 

Are you seriously saying you can't tell the difference between shells that alternate between bouncing and doing citadels, and shells that light you on fire and do normalized consistent damage without any damage spikes... and light you on fire? Did I mention the fire?

 

You really can't tell when in a BB?

 

I really don't know what to say at this point... It's blatantly obvious with a modicum of thinking between the sounds, fireballs and performance of damage with normalized versus bounces with huge spikes... It's even obvious given the AP leaves holes in your hull, and the HE besides the fires always leaves a worn/dented/darkened look. Have a good night I guess... And uh, good luck with your, um, games....

[Red_Raven_168]

Are you seriously saying you can't tell the difference between shells that alternate between bouncing and doing citadels, and shells that light you on fire and do normalized consistent damage without any damage spikes... and light you on fire? Did I mention the fire?

 

You really can't tell when in a BB?

 

wonder if there is a guide you could post for this chap

[Tears_of_Destiny]

 

wonder if there is a guide you could post for this chap

 

Next time I'll on I'll take screenshots of what AP pens look like, HE hits that don't start fires look like, what fires look like, and what areas that have had an HE hit and caught on fire but is now extinguished looks like.

 

The OP is likely playing with minimum graphics settings, that probably hides all those effects, and is just too caught up in the heat of battle to notice the sounds (or plays with no sound or a lot of third-party music) and what the hits are doing to the OP's ship not just graphically but also mechanically. It's pretty easy once you know what to look for.

 

I fully concur Tears. 

Thank you kindly 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

bodidlyharp, on 05 June 2015 - 08:53 PM, said: