Ever noticed...

[blurr91]

US navy never had a battlecruiser.  The proposed Lexington class was cancelled due to Washington Naval Treaty.

 

IJN battleships and battlecruisers were all constructed before Washington Treaty, other than the Yamato class.  The fast battleships were retrofitted from battlecruisers.

 

The USS Alaska (CB-1) was a curiosity.  She was something in between a heavy cruiser and a battlecruiser, officially classified as a "large cruiser."

 

Heavy cruiser was something to fill the gap between a cruiser (later re-rated as light cruiser) and a battlecruiser of the day.

[Windhover118]

US navy never had a battlecruiser.  The proposed Lexington class was cancelled due to Washington Naval Treaty.

 

IJN battleships and battlecruisers were all constructed before Washington Treaty, other than the Yamato class.  The fast battleships were retrofitted from battlecruisers.

 

 

The USS Alaska (CB-1) was a curiosity.  She was something in between a heavy cruiser and a battlecruiser, officially classified as a "large cruiser."

 

 

Heavy cruiser was something to fill the gap between a cruiser (later re-rated as light cruiser) and a battlecruiser of the day.

 

Battlecruiser's were actually meant to fill the gap between Cruisers and Battleships. 

[wareZalex]

The British went down the Battlecruiser path due to economics as much as anything. In WW2, the US Navy felt no such constraints.

[blurr91]

 

Battlecruiser's were actually meant to fill the gap between Cruisers and Battleships.

 

 

Right.  But navies found out battlecruisers were as expensive to construct as battleships.  The colonial powers needed a cheaper class of ships to show the flag, protect commerce, and guard the colonies.  Light cruisers did not have the endurance for global operations, nor the firepower.  Therefore, heavy cruiser at 10000t was born to fill the gap between the then cruiser (later classified as light) of roughly 6000t, and battlecruisers at 20000t.

 

 

HMS Hood was a battlecruiser at 46000t, almost the same size as the USS Iowa, a much better armored true battleship with more firepower, better speed, and longer range.

 

 

As battlecruisers grew in size to battleship levels, a huge gap between 15000t upper limit of heavy cruisers and the 30000t battle cruisers emerged.  US built the Alaska (CB-1), a large cruiser to fill the gap.  Ironically, she was the size of a battlecruiser, with less firepower, lighter armor, and not really that much faster than fast battleships and battlecruisers.  At such a low volume using non standard equipment (the most powerful and lowest production volume 12" naval gun), she wasn't that much cheaper.

 

 

Sometimes, it seems that we really don't need to fill the gap just because it exists.

[JAD1920]

I think the Alaska was the ultimate form of a all gun battlecruiser. The thing was the US version of a pocket battleship. We also had previously dreadnought battlecryusers.

[blurr91]

The British went down the Battlecruiser path due to economics as much as anything. In WW2, the US Navy felt no such constraints.

 

 

In the 1930s, IJN and RN both decided to update their battlecruisers to fast battleships (Hood and Kongo).  US also felt the financial constraint, but decided to go the other route.  US built uniform battle wagons with top speed of 21 knots before 1920, and 27 knots of the South Dakota and North Carolina class.  Speed was sacrificed for more armor.

[blurr91]

I think the Alaska was the ultimate form of a all gun battlecruiser. The thing was the US version of a pocket battleship. We also had previously dreadnought battlecryusers.

 

I don't believe USN ever operated battlecruisers.  Alaska was not by definition a "battlecruiser," which would be a ship with same guns carried by a contemporary battleship but had the speed of a cruiser.  The Iowa was closer to being a battlecruiser than the Alaska, except the Iowa somehow managed to carry battleship armor with battleship guns while achieving cruiser speed.

[AtomicRocketCruiser]

Alaska was supposed to counter the German Panzerschiffes and rumored IJN large cruisers. The USN was very concerned in the interwar period about fast surface raiders attacking their long supply lines across the Pacific and Atlantic oceans. 

[blurr91]

Alaska was supposed to counter the German Panzerschiffes and rumored IJN large cruisers. The USN was very concerned in the interwar period about fast surface raiders attacking their long supply lines across the Pacific and Atlantic oceans.

 

Yeah, time caught up and blew by the concept.  Escort carriers and destroyers would be more than sufficient to deal with solitary raiders that rely on gun power.  Turns out carriers and escorts are flexible enough to deal with all sorts of threats.

[NGTM_1R]

 

I don't believe USN ever operated battlecruisers.  Alaska was not by definition a "battlecruiser," which would be a ship with same guns carried by a contemporary battleship but had the speed of a cruiser.  The Iowa was closer to being a battlecruiser than the Alaska, except the Iowa somehow managed to carry battleship armor with battleship guns while achieving cruiser speed.

 

Your definition of battlecruiser is limited; the interwar cherry trees were actually similar to Alaska in this regard.

 

(Also even the USN's own publications referred to Alaska as a battlecruiser.)

[blurr91]

 

Your definition of battlecruiser is limited; the interwar cherry trees were actually similar to Alaska in this regard.

 

(Also even the USN's own publications referred to Alaska as a battlecruiser.)

 

 

I guess I went by Jack Fisher's design definition: speed of a cruiser with guns of battleships.

 

Germans went a different direction: speed of a cruiser with guns and armor between battleships and cruisers.

 

 

Technically, a USN battlecruiser would have carried hull classification of CC.  Alaska class had a different code: CB.  So something changed between the cancelled Lexington class in 1920 and the Alaska class in 1944.

[Windhover118]

 

 

I guess I went by Jack Fisher's design definition: speed of a cruiser with guns of battleships.

 

Germans went a different direction: speed of a cruiser with guns and armor between battleships and cruisers.

 

 

Technically, a USN battlecruiser would have carried hull classification of CC.  Alaska class had a different code: CB.  So something changed between the cancelled Lexington class in 1920 and the Alaska class in 1944.

 

Well the US Navy had a thing against Battlecruiser's in general so it would make sense that they would change the hull classification to match the title of Large Cruiser. 

[blurr91]

 

Well the US Navy had a thing against Battlecruiser's in general so it would make sense that they would change the hull classification to match the title of Large Cruiser.

 

 

Interesting.  Why was that?

[Frost_Flame]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I think people lump far too many things under the umbrella term of "battlecruiser."

 

"Iowa's a battlecruiser, Kirov's a battlecruiser, Alaska's a battlecruiser..."

 

I'm sure there's someone out there who wants to make the argument that Yamato's armor deficiencies make it classify as a battlecruiser or some nonsense.

[RedBear87]

Your definition of battlecruiser is limited; the interwar cherry trees were actually similar to Alaska in this regard.

Not really, G3 and N3 had similar displacements, with the battlecruiser compromising on armament and protection in favour of speed, Alaska at full load didn't even reach the displacement of a Treaty battleship at standard displacement, she's intermediate between contemporary cruisers and battleships.

[JAD1920]

I have heard people claim that the Bismarck was a super heavy cruiser and not a BB. I guess my personal definition of a battlecruiser is a ship that has the guns of a battleship but the armor of a heavy cruiser with some tweaking.

[blurr91]

I have heard people claim that the Bismarck was a super heavy cruiser and not a BB. I guess my personal definition of a battlecruiser is a ship that has the guns of a battleship but the armor of a heavy cruiser with some tweaking.

 

That was the simplest definition of a "battlecruiser" as envisioned by Jack Fisher.  He wanted speed above everything else.  Germans tweaked it a little bit by sacrificing gun power for a bit more armor, while still maintaining cruiser speed.

 

Iowa was sometimes called a battlecruiser because she had the speed of a cruiser and guns of a battleship, while her armor wasn't exactly proof against the guns she carried (classic definition of a battleship).

 

 

Kirov was called a battlecruiser because she had massive firepower and people were impressed with the sheer size of the ship.  She was more like a large cruiser, more akin to the Alaska, than the Hood.