Warship Philosophy: Carriers are not Warships

[Scootaloo23]

They're transports. You see, a carrier, the ship itself, is not intended to engage enemy vessels itself. The aircraft are. Therefore, a carrier is not a warship, as warships are ships designed to sink enemy vessels using their own weapons. A plane can be considered a weapon, but it operates independently of the carrier once it is in the air, unlike weapons mounted on a warship, which could not make attacks if they were to depart their vessel. The airplane itself is a combat unit that meets the enemy directly and engages them with munitions, the carrier does not, it merely gets the aircraft in range to make their attacks. Carriers have more advanced loading/unloading systems and heavier armament than any other type of transport, and some of the most deadly cargo, making carriers in fact the pinnacle of military transport development.

[WinterIess]

Scoot, stop blowing my mind! >.<''

[Daigensui]

If this is meant to be serious, no wonder you don't know much about naval technology.

[Lert]

The carrier engages in war. It carries out attacks. It protects assets. It does so by launching fighters and bombers. If a carrier is not a warship, then a longbowman is not a soldier.

[Freecloud]

That's an interesting perspective on carriers...

[Scootaloo23]

The carrier engages in war. It carries out attacks. It protects assets. It does so by launching fighters and bombers. If a carrier is not a warship, then a longbowman is not a soldier.

 

But a longbowman uses a weapon that requires his own expertise and usage to make a kill. Once a carriers planes are in the air the carrier and her crew are no longer involved in the combat, it's up to the planes and the planes alone to seek out and deliver munitions to the enemy. (Though not quite true in a modern sense due to more powerful radar and advanced communication logistics, this would have been many measures more the case in a WW2 theatre.)

 

If a long bowmans arrow was able to seek out and fire it's own arrows at the enemy, and all the long bowman had to do was make sure it got into the air successfully, then the metaphor would be a bit stronger.

[Lert]

If a long bowmans arrow was able to seek out and fire it's own arrows at the enemy, and all the long bowman had to do was make sure it got into the air successfully, then the metaphor would be a bit stronger.

 

 

*Apparently not a warship

[Raga91]

Warship Philosophy: Battleships are not Warships

 

They're transports. You see, a battleship, the ship itself, is not intended to engage enemy vessels itself. The projectiles are. Therefore, a battleship is not a warship, as warships are ships designed to sink enemy vessels using their own weapons. A projectile can be considered a weapon, but it operates independently of the battleship once it is in the air, unlike weapons mounted on a warship, which could not make attacks if all projectiles were to depart their vessel. The projectile itself is a combat unit that meets the enemy directly and engages them with kinetic and explosive energy, the battleship does not, it merely gets the projectile in range to make their attacks. Battleships have more advanced loading/unloading systems and heavier armament than any other type of transport, and some of the most deadly cargo, making battleships in fact the pinnacle of military transport development.

 

Sarcasm, obviously, the argument is pointless though since you've invented your own definition of a warship.  Wikipedia has the more commonly accepted definition, namely "A warship is a naval ship that is built and primarily intended for naval warfare."

[Im_The_Seeker2]

 

 

*Apparently not a warship

excessively expensive tin can

[Guest]

excessively expensive tin can

 

Atleast its pretty in my eyes...I always did like it... 

[Im_The_Seeker2]

 

Atleast its pretty in my eyes...I always did like it... 

 

ugh, it's [edited]repulsive

[Guest]

 

ugh, it's [edited]repulsive

 

I guess we have different tastes in Warship design eh"? I find the Zumwalt to be pretty after all. 

[Scootaloo23]

 

 

 

*Apparently not a warship

 

Well, the missiles can use shipboard guidance systems to reach the target, at which point their own systems take over. (Though if in fact you can fire the missile and have it reach and strike the enemy without any assistance from the warship, I suppose modern warships are in fact just missile transports).

 

Also, by the logic that a carrier is a warship, a troop transport is also a land combat vehicle. A troop transport delivers infantry/marines to the combat area where they engage the enemy. A carrier delivers planes to the combat area where they engage the enemy. They're the same thing conceptually.

 

Warship Philosophy: Battleships are not Warships

 

They're transports. You see, a battleship, the ship itself, is not intended to engage enemy vessels itself. The projectiles are. Therefore, a battleship is not a warship, as warships are ships designed to sink enemy vessels using their own weapons. A projectile can be considered a weapon, but it operates independently of the battleship once it is in the air, unlike weapons mounted on a warship, which could not make attacks if all projectiles were to depart their vessel. The projectile itself is a combat unit that meets the enemy directly and engages them with kinetic and explosive energy, the battleship does not, it merely gets the projectile in range to make their attacks. Battleships have more advanced loading/unloading systems and heavier armament than any other type of transport, and some of the most deadly cargo, making battleships in fact the pinnacle of military transport development.

 

Yes, but a battleships guns are directly controlled by the battleship and crew herself. A plane is not controlled directly by the carrier and her crew, it's controlled by the pilot. Once the plane is in the air, it is independent of the carrier and able to engage the enemy on it's own, but it's munitions require positioning and control of the airplane by it's crew to hit the enemy, just like a battleships guns require the crew to position and control the vessel and her FCS to make the munitions strike the enemy.

[NightHawkS117]

 

ugh, it's [edited]repulsive

 

No. The new ship, what is it, the Zumwalt? Now that thing is hideous. 

[Raga91]

Yes, but a battleships guns are directly controlled by the battleship and crew herself. A plane is not controlled directly by the carrier and her crew, it's controlled by the pilot. Once the plane is in the air, it is independent of the carrier and able to engage the enemy on it's own, but it's munitions require positioning and control of the airplane by it's crew to hit the enemy, just like a battleships guns require the crew to position and control the vessel and her FCS to make the munitions strike the enemy.

Quit moving the goal posts, you're just further contriving your invented definitions and adding more and more qualifiers to bail yourself out.  Using your methods I could argue that the sky is green and you won't be able to prove it wrong.

[Im_The_Seeker2]

 

No. The new ship, what is it, the Zumwalt? Now that thing is hideous. 

 

they're all hideous, I can't stand to look at underarmored missile boats

[Scootaloo23]

Quit moving the goal posts, you're just further contriving your invented definitions and adding more and more qualifiers to bail yourself out.  Using your methods I could argue that the sky is green and you won't be able to prove it wrong.

 

I'm not moving any goal posts. My position is that a warship is any ship, which uses her own internal systems and shipboard mounted weapons to acquire targeting data and acquire optimal position, then deliver munitions to the enemy, so she may engage and sink enemy ships. A carrier does not fulfill this definition, as the systems which she uses to engage the enemy become externally controlled and operated once the aircraft takes off.

[Fuchsy]

 

they're all hideous, I can't stand to look at underarmored missile boats

They can't stand to look at you too.

Which is why they carry a stock of Missiles to launch at people from many a distance away.

[Daigensui]

My position 

 

You have no position. You've always been positionless except what gains your very short attention span amidst your complete lack of any sort of knowledge in the naval realm.

[Raga91]

 

I'm not moving any goal posts. My position is that a warship is any ship, which uses her own internal systems and shipboard mounted weapons to acquire targeting data and acquire optimal position, then deliver munitions to the enemy, so she may engage and sink enemy ships. A carrier does not fulfill this definition, as the systems which she uses to engage the enemy become externally controlled and operated once the aircraft takes off.

 

"A carrier does not fulfill this definition"

 

You're right, it does not fit your personal, completely invented definition (which by the way, you've modified again).  So it's a good thing that you are not in charge of the English language or naval terminology.  The carrier is a naval ship that engages in naval warfare, therefore it fits the generally accepted definition of a warship.

[Im_The_Seeker2]

They can't stand to look at you too.

Which is why they carry a stock of Missiles to launch at people from many a distance away.

 

They're built to be utilitarian - and they work well - but they are not pleasing to look at.

[Scootaloo23]

 

"A carrier does not fulfill this definition"

 

You're right, it does not fit your personal, completely invented definition (which by the way, you've modified again).  So it's a good thing that you are not in charge of the English language or naval terminology.  The carrier is a naval ship that engages in naval warfare, therefore it fits the generally accepted definition of a warship.

 

Then we consider any ship that is involved in Naval warfare a warship? Then does that make auxiliaries and oilers warships as well? Like a carrier, they rarely have ever used their onboard weapons systems against enemy vessels, but have provided a major contribution to Naval battles, though in a different way.

[wareZalex]

Actually, this belief comes from the "Gun Club" of the world's navies before and during WW2. This is especially true in 'Merica since the Langley was a common transport ship. How so pedestrian be a true warship.

[Daigensui]

Then does that make auxiliaries and oilers warships as well? 

 

The former are actually considered warships. Only oilers are not, since their purpose is purely logistical and has no relationship to conducting naval warfare.

[Super_Dreadnought]