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Ariecho

Battleships era: List of ships' contributions from forum players

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Ok sorry for taking so long.

 

 

 

Here is design Flugzeugträger 1A.

 

2hxvcm0.jpg

 

 

 

Later changed to this:

 

15evgqh.jpg

 

 

 

 

---------

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The one at the bottom is for the Graf Zeppelin himself, as explained in the blog from where you got all your images (http://secretweaponsoftheiiireich.blogspot.com/2011/12/graf-zeppelin-german-aircraft-carrier.html).  Nowhere does it say that it is for an upgrade on any subsequent aircraft carrier or for Graf Zepelin herself.  None of the other sites that host this picture indicate any form of upgrade.

 

The images in the spoiler are well known programs.  They are Project A for the Gross Flugdeckkreuzer and Project E for the Flugdeckkreuzer.  But in this case, they were different projects that had nothing to do with Flugzeugtrager A (Graf Zeppelin), B, C, and D who were all from the same class, and part of plan Z.  Those projects were put on paper in 1942.

 

Oh, and thanks for your efforts researching your references.  Appreciated!

Edited by Ariecho

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Alpha Tester
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The one at the bottom is for the Graf Zeppelin himself, as explained in the blog from where you got all your images (http://secretweaponsoftheiiireich.blogspot.com/2011/12/graf-zeppelin-german-aircraft-carrier.html).  Nowhere does it say that it is for an upgrade on any subsequent aircraft carrier or for Graf Zepelin herself.  None of the other sites that host this picture indicate any form of upgrade.

 

 

Can you explain the changes in design, then? 

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Can you explain the changes in design, then? 

What change in design?  Do you mean between the two pictures?  As indicated in the ONI picture, it is "the best graphic artists could come up with a ship".  The picture states that they are "substantially correct" and that the disposition of AA batteries etc may have changed.  I'm not even sure that the one at the bottom is the final design, as none of the sites that host it is capable of putting a year on it.  All it says is that it is Graf Zeppelin, sheet 2, but there is no year about it. 

 

As I know that you love German ships, I invite you to read the book that I referenced.  If you trust me with an email address through a PM, I will send you a PDF copy of it.  It is (beside German books that I can also send you but that I only use for picture references), the best source that I know of this ship.

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Alpha Tester
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What change in design?  Do you mean between the two pictures?  As indicated in the ONI picture, it is "the best graphic artists could come up with a ship".  The picture states that they are "substantially correct" and that the disposition of AA batteries etc may have changed.  I'm not even sure that the one at the bottom is the final design, as none of the sites that host it is capable of putting a year on it.  All it says is that it is Graf Zeppelin, sheet 2, but there is no year about it. 

 

As I know that you love German ships, I invite you to read the book that I referenced.  If you trust me with an email address through a PM, I will send you a PDF copy of it.  It is (beside German books that I can also send you but that I only use for picture references), the best source that I know of this ship.

 

Well thank you in supporting information on the Graf.

 

However I would be delighted if you spent the time in doing so. I haven't bothered going out and buying material often, which explains the multiple gaps. I will send the PM momentarily. 

 

On a side note, do you have any information on the Bismarck CV conversion mentioned in Q/A? I really believe its another on of WG's alternate designs... As I've looked forever and found nothing to support their idea.

 

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First book sent. 110Megabytes so not sure if you can receive it.  Let me know if there is any problem.

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On a side note, do you have any information on the Bismarck CV conversion mentioned in Q/A? I really believe its another on of WG's alternate designs... As I've looked forever and found nothing to support their idea.

 

There are a few web sites that mention hybrid battleship/aircraft carriers designs, but I haven't found any that referenced the Bismarck particularly.

 

The following site gives you some ideas about the Z plan.  I'll try to dig a bit further more.

 

http://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/zplan/index.html

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The forum finally won.  The list has become too long and therefore cannot be updated, and my request to have the new threads for each stickied fell on deaf ears.  If you are looking for particular ships, here is the location of the new threads:

 

US ships 

UK ships 

Russian/USSR ships

Japanese ships

Italian ships 

German ships

French ships

Minor naval countries' ships

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The purpose of this list is to help people who like to write about their favorite ships find out if the ship has not already been covered by someone else. For a list of ships that will be in the game, look here. Please note that the fact that a ship or a class has already been covered does not mean that you shouldn't write about it anyway.

.

The full list reached almost 500 ships, at which point, the forum didn't accept any new update.  Should you want to follow a specific ship, check the following lists.  I asked wargaming to get the new list pinned a few weeks ago, but didn't get any answer.

 

US ships 

UK ships 

Russian/USSR ships

Japanese ships

Italian ships 

German ships

French ships

Minor naval countries' ships

You said,   "For a list of ships that will be in the game, look here."     Where is that link? Also wondering if there will be pre-dreadnoughts in the game... That would be great.

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You said,   "For a list of ships that will be in the game, look here."     Where is that link? Also wondering if there will be pre-dreadnoughts in the game... That would be great.

 

No predreads. There is a slim chance we'll see Satsuma and/or Aki as they were originally designed with a standardized 12" battery, but anything as or less capable than Lord Nelson just doesn't have the moxie.

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I noticed Graf Zepplin on here. Not sure if anyone has talked particularly about it though. I was reading an article in a Flight Journal Magazine, Article June 2014, and to my surprise, Graf Zepplin would not have been a particularly good Aircraft Carrier.

 

Now to cover my declaration, I discovered in the article that launching would have been highly complex. The article stated that the Graf Zepplin used a Compressed Air Catapult good for about 18 launches. The written manual created by the Kreigsmarine stated that two of those would be used for ensuring the system worked before any use of the Cat, leaving only 16 launches capable.

 

Now if that wasn't a bad idea already, the German Cat was also a large cradle system as well.

 

That mean that the planes had to be rigged to a crane, lifted up allowing their wheels to be retracted and then the plane would be swung over and lowered into the cradle, tail up position. Then the cradled aircraft was moved to one of three elevators and lifted to the flight deck. Once there, the cradles were moved along rails built into the flight deck itself to the launch area and then attached to the Cat. Once the plane was secure, launch could then proceed.

 

For all that trouble, Graf Zepplin's Air Group would have been, initially, 20 Fieseler 167 Biplane Torpedo Bombers, 13 Ju-87C Stukas, and 10 Bf-109T fighters. An Air Group of 43 aircraft, but as things were dragged on, that was revised. The later design of the Air Group, since the Fi-167 was now obsolete, was reconfigured to 30 fighter and 12 Stukas. This was reflecting the change of the Battle of the Atlantic. With newer aircraft of longer range capability and heavy firepower, the Germans needed fighters to protect them and scouts for their surface forces as well. That was the original doctrine many held for the Aircraft Carrier.

 

Though if you read between the lines, it also sounds like Goering didn't like the idea of Naval Aviation, even if he controlled it in the first place!

 

Well, whatever.

 

Now onto armament issues.

 

To be blunt, Graf Zepplin was overarmed for an Aircraft Carrier. Given weapons expected of Light Cruisers!

 

16x 6in guns

12x 4in guns

22x 37mm guns

 

Quite an unusual heavy armament even for early War carriers. Some of these guns were also badly placed and would hamper Air Operations when in use. Not to mention the rattling the planes would have gotten inside the ship when the guns were firing.

 

Graf Zepplin's estimated range also was only 200 miles from port. This left her with very little operational radius for her nearly 30,000 ton form. She likely would have only threaten the Convoys heading to Russian ports and would have had light escorts due to losses and wear among the escort units and cruisers. No U-boats could keep up with her on the surface either, leaving her in a weak position.

 

Either way, we'll never know for sure what she could have done. It's doubtful she would have had much success. What with all her in built complications and German Military Politics being what they were. Sad loss for her though. She never felt the weight of an aircraft on her decks.

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Ari.

 

One ship class that is not in your list for the UK is the Abdiel class fast cruiser / minelayers.  Daantje8 put up an excellent post about them on the EU forum about 8 months ago, but there's nothing about them on the NA forum.

 

His post is located here:

http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/1949-abdiel-class-minelayers/

 

Can you add it to the list please?

 

Thanks.

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Ari's no longer active, unfortunately.

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only problem i see with battleships/ ships in general is that instead of having an amour is represented of invulnerability zones in the larger ships as the shells from these larger ships were meant to be fired at long distance to increase damage and penetration so this bigger ship : Bismark, Yamamoto, Iowa, wont be able to duke it out close up. so really probably wont be used but i enjoyed that the survivability on these huge ships were amazing but as this would be to overpowered if they included this but this is just my opinion i am looking forward to the game props on these great ideas.

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No man.... This has been discussed in detail. As much as I dislike the Yamato, the Tirpitz would lose badly in a gunnery duel.

 

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Hier noch ein paar schöne Bilder zu den verschiedenen Schlachtschiff-Klassen:

 

Deutschland Klasse  [1906(Deutschland, Hannover, Pommern, Schlesien, Schleswig-Holsteinhier die SMS Deutschland:

Hauptartillerie : 4 x 280mm, Sekundär-Artillerie  14x 170mm + 20x 88mm

sms-deutschland0iusa.jpg

 

 

Nassau Klasse  [1909]  (Nassau, Westfalen, Rheinland, Posen), hier die SMS Westfalen:

Hauptartillerie : 12 x 280mm, Sekundär-Artillerie  12x 150mm + 14x 88mm

sms-westfalenokuwf.jpg

 

SMS Rheinland im Detail:

cutaway-1-rheinlandoaudb.jpg

 

 

Helgoland Klasse  [1911]  (Helgoland, Ostfriesland, Thüringen, Oldenburg), hier die SMS Helgoland: 

Hauptartillerie : 12 x 305mm, Sekundär-Artillerie  14x 150mm + 14x 88mm

smshelgolandgpuat.jpg

 

 

Kaiser Klasse  [1912]  (Kaiser, Friedrich der Große, Kaiserin, König Albert, Prinzregent Luitpold) 

Hauptartillerie : 10 x 305mm, Sekundär-Artillerie  14x 150mm + 12x 88mm

kaiser-class9vuba.jpg

 

SMS Friedrich der Große im Detail:

cutaway-1-friedrichcfurl.jpg

 

 

König Klasse  [1914  (König,  Großer Kurfürst,  Markgraf, Kronprinz)

Hauptartillerie : 10 x 305mm, Sekundär-Artillerie  14x 150mm + 10x 88mm

koenig-classnju8n.jpg

 

 

Bayern Klasse   [1916  (Bayern, Baden, Sachsen, Württemberg)

Hauptartillerie : 8 x 380mm, Sekundär-Artillerie  16x 150mm + 2x 88mm

bayern-classl8uok.jpg

 

Quellen:  

 

German Battleships 1914–18 (1)

German Battleships 1914–18 (2)

 

http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/12948-der-deutsche-tech-tree-im-blick-teil-1/page__st__40__pid__268787#entry268787

 

Edited by Trigger_Happy_Dad

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Beautiful paintings:

 

Kaiser Wilhelm II addressing officers of his High Seas Fleet after the Battle of Jutland: picture by Claus Bergen
cb55-the-kaiser-addrep7szw.jpg
 
German High Seas Fleet leaving for the North Sea on 30th May 1916 for the Battle of Jutland: picture by Claus Bergen
cb31-german-high-seasf6ssn.jpg
 
Inside a Main Gun Turret of a German Battle Cruiser at the Battle of Jutland 31st May 1916: picture by Claus Bergen
cb47-inside-a-battlesgtjxg.jpg
 
Admiral Hipper leaves his stricken flagship SMS Lützow by destroyer for SMS Moltke. Lützow later sank. Battle of Jutland 31st May 1916: picture by Claus Bergen
cb48-admiral-hipperleeiser.jpg

 

German Battle Cruiser SMS Seydlitz in action at the Battle of Jutland on 31st May 1916: picture by Claus Bergen

cb61-sms-seydlitz-in-8hk94.jpg
 

German Battleship SMS Markgraf firing on the British Fleet at the Battle of Jutland 31st May 1916: picture by Claus Bergen

cb52-sms-markgraf-firdmkde.jpg

 
German Destroyers going in to the attack at the Battle of Jutland 31st May 1916: picture by Claus Bergen
cb46-german-destroyerrds5b.jpg
 
German Battleships and Destroyers in action Battle of Jutland 31st May 1916: picture by Claus Bergen
cb50-the-german-high-iljfh.jpg
 

German Battleships and Destroyers advancing to the attack at the Battle of Jutland on 31st May 1916: picture by Claus Bergen

cb63-german-line-of-br5kdj.jpg

 
 

Admiral Hipper’s replacement Flagship at the Battle of Jutland 31st May 1916, SMS Moltke: picture by Claus Bergen

sms-seydlitz-claus-be5mkpt.jpg

 

German Battle Cruiser SMS Lützow Hipper’s Flagship badly damaged by British shell fire at the Battle of Jutland 31st May 1916: picture by Claus Bergen

luetzow-sinktkea4r.jpg

more here:    http://www.britishbattles.com/the-battle-of-jutland-part-iii-clash-between-the-british-and-german-battle-fleets-during-the-evening-31st-may-1916/

 

:honoring:

Edited by Trigger_Happy_Dad

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Minas Geraes was christened by Senhora Regis de Oliveira, the wife of the Brazilian Minister to Great Britain, and launched at Newcastle-on-Tyne on 10 September 1908. 

Minas Geraes was modernized at the Rio de Janeiro Naval Yard in the 1930s, and underwent further refitting from 1939 to 1943. 

Two months after its completion in January 1910, Minas Geraes was featured in Scientific American, which described it as "the last word in heavy battleship design and the...

Two of these ship were laid down by Armstrong in Elswick (Minas Geraes and Rio de Janeiro), while the other was subcontracted out to Vickers in Barrow (São Paulo). 

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