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        hello Warship enthusiasts! I have a question for you all! first off i am the author of a series in which i prove that Xship is actually Xships sister.. so far ive proved that Wyoming is Arkansas and that Kongo is Hiei. also i did some reaserch and BTW New york is actually Texas (the proof is in the difference of the bridges) Ive done all this because some time ago the devs stated in a Q and A that they would model each class of ship after the class's namesake ship. Obviously so far they havnt been doing that, and some of the logic behind choosing one ship over the other is logical (especially in Wyoming-Arkansas case)

        So my question is... When the Kriegsmarine gets implemented which variant of the deutschland sisters should they use? Deutschland/Lutzow? Lead ship of the class and war survivor. Admiral Scheer? Aesthetically similar to Graf spee until 1943ish when her bridge was rebuilt and survived till 1945. Or Graf Spee? Most famous of the sisters but earliest destroyed. Personally i would like to see the Deutchland/lutzow. it is the lead ship in the class and (in my personal opinion) the most aesthetically pleasing of the 3 ships. also it gives us plenty of hull options as it had a long life with many upgrades especially concerning AA. Scheer gives similar options as she too lived into 1945 but had slighly fewer AA guns at this time. also, in the early hulls it has a extremely similar bridge structure compared to the Graf Spee (which will calm all the Spee lovers down). Least i would recomend the Spee because it would have very few hull modifications and crappy AA.

        Next question... After 1942 the Kriegsmarine classified the Deutschlands as Heavy cruisers, this being said it has been rumored that Deutchland will be not a tier 4 battleship, but a tier 10 cruiser. this makes all the sense in the world too me because as far as armor is concerned, the Deutschland's armor resembles that of a heavily armored light cruiser, being only 3.5" at the belt with a maximum of 5.5" on the turret faces. I think it would fit nicely as a tier 10 cruiser because 1) it will be less well armored than probably all of the other tier 10 cruisers and every single battleship 2) at 28 knots it is neither fast nor slow fora tier 10 cruiser and 3) because its 6 11" guns will be enough to cover the weakness of its armor by producing a punch that would be effective at tier 10 and although it may be slightly overpowered in terms of damage and penetration it wont quite be able to match the reload speeds of similar cruisers, not to mention it only has 2 turrets meaning if 1 gets knocked out the ships firepower is literally cut in half (down to just 3 shells, no battleship player deserves punishment so severe as to be only able to fire 3 shots) Also the Deutchlands carried 2 torpedo mounts of 4 tubes each, and the devs said that Battleships wont be able to fire torpedos, but as a cruiser would make perfect sense. (btw what do they plan on doing with battleships that had torps like Tirpitz, Nelson and Scharnhorst?)

        Please, what do you think of the questions posed? 1) which ship should be rendered? 2) low tier battleship or top tier cruiser?

Edited by dseehafer

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A lot of American BBs had torpedoes as well but they stated no BB will be able to fire torpedoes even if they had them.

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A lot of American BBs had torpedoes as well but they stated no BB will be able to fire torpedoes even if they had them.

 

All if not most american BBs had their torpedo tubes removed in refits during the 20's and 30's, and most certainly none had them after pearl harbor. Also these torpedo tubes were mounted in the hull above outboard prop shafts in the stern of the vessel, they were fixed and could not be traversed.. which would make firing them in game a nightmare and that would only be doable in the stock hull. nelson, tirpitz and scharnhorst all had traversable torpedo mounts located on deck, not below the waterlne like early american battleships.

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It uses paragraphs or else it gets the hose again.

 

... sorry :/

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It uses paragraphs or else it gets the hose again.

lol was thinking the same thing +1

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        hello Warship enthusiasts! I have a question for you all! first off i am the author of a series in which i prove that Xship is actually Xships sister.. so far ive proved that Wyoming is Arkansas and that Kongo is Hiei. also i did some reaserch and BTW New york is actually Texas (the proof is in the difference of the bridges) Ive done all this because some time ago the devs stated in a Q and A that they would model each class of ship after the class's namesake ship. Obviously so far they havnt been doing that, and some of the logic behind choosing one ship over the other is logical (especially in Wyoming-Arkansas case)

        So my question is... When the Kriegsmarine gets implemented which variant of the deutschland sisters should they use? Deutschland/Lutzow? Lead ship of the class and war survivor. Admiral Scheer? Aesthetically similar to Graf spee until 1943ish when her bridge was rebuilt and survived till 1945. Or Graf Spee? Most famous of the sisters but earliest destroyed. Personally i would like to see the Deutchland/lutzow. it is the lead ship in the class and (in my personal opinion) the most aesthetically pleasing of the 3 ships. also it gives us plenty of hull options as it had a long life with many upgrades especially concerning AA. Scheer gives similar options as she too lived into 1945 but had slighly fewer AA guns at this time. also, in the early hulls it has a extremely similar bridge structure compared to the Graf Spee (which will calm all the Spee lovers down). Least i would recomend the Spee because it would have very few hull modifications and crappy AA.

        Next question... After 1942 the Kriegsmarine classified the Deutschlands as Heavy cruisers, this being said it has been rumored that Deutchland will be not a tier 4 battleship, but a tier 10 cruiser. this makes all the sense in the world too me because as far as armor is concerned, the Deutschland's armor resembles that of a heavily armored light cruiser, being only 3.5" at the belt with a maximum of 5.5" on the turret faces. I think it would fit nicely as a tier 10 cruiser because 1) it will be less well armored than probably all of the other tier 10 cruisers and every single battleship 2) at 28 knots it is neither fast nor slow fora tier 10 cruiser and 3) because its 6 11" guns will be enough to cover the weakness of its armor by producing a punch that would be effective at tier 10 and although it may be slightly overpowered in terms of damage and penetration it wont quite be able to match the reload speeds of similar cruisers, not to mention it only has 2 turrets meaning if 1 gets knocked out the ships firepower is literally cut in half (down to just 3 shells, no battleship player deserves punishment so severe as to be only able to fire 3 shots) Also the Deutchlands carried 2 torpedo mounts of 4 tubes each, and the devs said that Battleships wont be able to fire torpedos, but as a cruiser would make perfect sense. (btw what do they plan on doing with battleships that had torps like Tirpitz, Nelson and Scharnhorst?)

        Please, what do you think of the questions posed? 1) which ship should be rendered? 2) low tier battleship or top tier cruiser?

 

Personally I would prefer Scheer.

 

The Deutschlands are definitely not tier 10 cruiser material. Tier 8 at best, and even that it stretching it a bit.

 

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I agree.  I just don't see this class as Tier X cruisers.

 

I also agree that Tier 8 is stretching even for a Deutschland class panzerschiffe.

 

The Deutschland class were supposed to be succeeded by the D and P classes of panzerschiffe, which has the same layout of 6 11" guns, except they are heavier, faster, better armored.  Both were ordered, but later cancelled.  The D class would have as much as 220mm armor at its thickest which is practically battleship armor, using steam turbines; the even heavier P class has 120mm (heavy cruisers lilke Hipper and Deutschland have about 80mm), which is not as much s the D class, but its diesel engines would enable it to be faster and cruise longer, making it a better surface raider.  I think the P would make a nice Tier 9 and the D class a Tier X.

 

Actually I don't mind the Deutschland class being Tier IV battleships.  The tier is more important for me than the line.

 

 

Edited by Eisennagel

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        hello Warship enthusiasts! I have a question for you all! first off i am the author of a series in which i prove that Xship is actually Xships sister.. so far ive proved that Wyoming is Arkansas and that Kongo is Hiei. also i did some reaserch and BTW New york is actually Texas (the proof is in the difference of the bridges) Ive done all this because some time ago the devs stated in a Q and A that they would model each class of ship after the class's namesake ship.

 

Obviously so far they havnt been doing that, and some of the logic behind choosing one ship over the other is logical (especially in Wyoming-Arkansas case)

 So my question is... When the Kriegsmarine gets implemented which variant of the deutschland sisters should they use? Deutschland/Lutzow? Lead ship of the class and war survivor. Admiral Scheer? Aesthetically similar to Graf spee until 1943ish when her bridge was rebuilt and survived till 1945. Or Graf Spee? Most famous of the sisters but earliest destroyed. Personally i would like to see the Deutchland/lutzow.

 

it is the lead ship in the class and (in my personal opinion) the most aesthetically pleasing of the 3 ships. also it gives us plenty of hull options as it had a long life with many upgrades especially concerning AA. Scheer gives similar options as she too lived into 1945 but had slighly fewer AA guns at this time. also, in the early hulls it has a extremely similar bridge structure compared to the Graf Spee (which will calm all the Spee lovers down). Least i would recomend the Spee because it would have very few hull modifications and crappy AA.

 

 Next question... After 1942 the Kriegsmarine classified the Deutschlands as Heavy cruisers, this being said it has been rumored that Deutchland will be not a tier 4 battleship, but a tier 10 cruiser. this makes all the sense in the world too me because as far as armor is concerned, the Deutschland's armor resembles that of a heavily armored light cruiser, being only 3.5" at the belt with a maximum of 5.5" on the turret faces.

 

I think it would fit nicely as a tier 10 cruiser because 1) it will be less well armored than probably all of the other tier 10 cruisers and every single battleship 2) at 28 knots it is neither fast nor slow fora tier 10 cruiser and 3) because its 6 11" guns will be enough to cover the weakness of its armor by producing a punch that would be effective at tier 10 and although it may be slightly overpowered in terms of damage and penetration it wont quite be able to match the reload speeds of similar cruisers, not to mention it only has 2 turrets meaning if 1 gets knocked out the ships firepower is literally cut in half (down to just 3 shells, no battleship player deserves punishment so severe as to be only able to fire 3 shots)

 

Also the Deutchlands carried 2 torpedo mounts of 4 tubes each, and the devs said that Battleships wont be able to fire torpedos, but as a cruiser would make perfect sense. (btw what do they plan on doing with battleships that had torps like Tirpitz, Nelson and Scharnhorst?)

        Please, what do you think of the questions posed? 1) which ship should be rendered? 2) low tier battleship or top tier cruiser?

 

There made it easier to read instead of the WALL OF TEXT.  She's nowhere near tier 10 material, they were fat heavy cruisers with a 3 inch belt, quite thinnly protected. A Des Moines would smile wickedly and then go I'M GOIN' IN DRY BOY! SQUEAL PIGGEH! and proceed to touch the DLand in inappropriate ways with LOTS of vigour.  

 

She'll be a weird tier 7/8 cruiser at best.

Edited by sharlin648
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Dland is, ironically, really only suited to take on early treaty heavy cruisers. You throw her at Takao or Baltimore, you'll get back pieces. Even New Orleans has a better-than-even shot.

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         I see all your arguments concerning the armor, yes, at any tier for a heavy cruiser its crap.. the armor wont be good at any tier. Normal wwii heavy cruisers had 6-8" belt armor. But i can already see too many people complaining that dland's firepower is op if it gets put in tier 7 or 8. thats why the devs are thinking tier 10, because what it lacks in armor will be made up in raw damage per shell and range. Its a real brain teaser.. you basically have a light cruiser (armor wise) with battleship guns.. so what do you do with it? The last thing i would do is make it a battleship of any tier because it lacks firepower in terms of shell size and turrets, and no battleship captain deserves to have a max of 5.5" armor at any tier.. Heck even the Kongo had an 8" belt and for a battleship that is terrible!

         I still say tier 9 or 10 heavy cruiser. It will be one of those "its extreme advantages balance its many disadvantages" Advantages: massive dame per shell (compared to other cruisers), heavy secondary batterys (both 5.9" and 4.1"), slightly better range (compared to MOST cruisers), low detection range, torpedoes. Disadvantages: paper thin armor for a cruiser, Mediocre speed (compared to similar cruisers), constant danger of having your firepower cut in half by getting a heavy turret knocked out, slower reload than (all?) cruisers at 18.5 seconds (better than most battleships averaging 25-30 sec), mediocre AA capability for most hulls.

         The Deutschland's were built to "outrun any ship that can outgun them (a battleship) and outgun any ship that can catch them (another cruiser) in either case they weren't designed to take large amounts of damage in sustained combat, they either had to make quick work of the opposition or get the heck away from the opposition and that's how they will have to be played in game Battleship or cruiser, high or low tier.

Edited by dseehafer
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Given the way the game mechanics currently work I would frankly love to meet the 'overpowered' - according to the OP - Deutschland class at tier 7-8 in my Myoukou or Mogami. An easy kill to pad my stats is fine by me.

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After 1942 the Kriegsmarine classified the Deutschlands as Heavy cruisers,

this was in 1940,

as for armor the Deutschlands (especially Graf Spee) had more weight associated to armor then the Hipper class Cruisers

Graf Spee had 2822t armor compared to Prinz Eugen 2525t. This weigth includes horizontal deck armor, two layers of vertical armor, splinterprotection (made of armor steel), the torpedobulkhead, protection of commandposts, barbettes but not rotating turret-armor.

 

one may compare these weights with foreign designs

 

Edited by Thoddy

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I think it could be an odd extension out of the BB line and CA line, who knows how they will tier it, no armor, 11" guns and torps makes it interesting its also slow for a CA with a speed of 28kts. There are at least many refits the ship can go under, and a paper upgrade to the longer 11" guns of the BC class with the long names 

Edited by ExGavalonnj

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I like the idea of this ship being a t6-7 cruiser.... The Battle of the River Plate shows where her tier should be historically because even the Brit Captains wondered why the Graf Spee did not kill them all as she certainly could have.

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Langsdorff despite his death was heavily criticized for leading the ship in "Torpedoboat behavior" with constantly changing courses wich require permanently modified firesolutions.

Edited by Thoddy

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        hello Warship enthusiasts! I have a question for you all! first off i am the author of a series in which i prove that Xship is actually Xships sister.. so far ive proved that Wyoming is Arkansas and that Kongo is Hiei. also i did some reaserch and BTW New york is actually Texas (the proof is in the difference of the bridges) Ive done all this because some time ago the devs stated in a Q and A that they would model each class of ship after the class's namesake ship. Obviously so far they havnt been doing that, and some of the logic behind choosing one ship over the other is logical (especially in Wyoming-Arkansas case)

        So my question is... When the Kriegsmarine gets implemented which variant of the deutschland sisters should they use? Deutschland/Lutzow? Lead ship of the class and war survivor. Admiral Scheer? Aesthetically similar to Graf spee until 1943ish when her bridge was rebuilt and survived till 1945. Or Graf Spee? Most famous of the sisters but earliest destroyed. Personally i would like to see the Deutchland/lutzow. it is the lead ship in the class and (in my personal opinion) the most aesthetically pleasing of the 3 ships. also it gives us plenty of hull options as it had a long life with many upgrades especially concerning AA. Scheer gives similar options as she too lived into 1945 but had slighly fewer AA guns at this time. also, in the early hulls it has a extremely similar bridge structure compared to the Graf Spee (which will calm all the Spee lovers down). Least i would recomend the Spee because it would have very few hull modifications and crappy AA.

        Next question... After 1942 the Kriegsmarine classified the Deutschlands as Heavy cruisers, this being said it has been rumored that Deutchland will be not a tier 4 battleship, but a tier 10 cruiser. this makes all the sense in the world too me because as far as armor is concerned, the Deutschland's armor resembles that of a heavily armored light cruiser, being only 3.5" at the belt with a maximum of 5.5" on the turret faces. I think it would fit nicely as a tier 10 cruiser because 1) it will be less well armored than probably all of the other tier 10 cruisers and every single battleship 2) at 28 knots it is neither fast nor slow fora tier 10 cruiser and 3) because its 6 11" guns will be enough to cover the weakness of its armor by producing a punch that would be effective at tier 10 and although it may be slightly overpowered in terms of damage and penetration it wont quite be able to match the reload speeds of similar cruisers, not to mention it only has 2 turrets meaning if 1 gets knocked out the ships firepower is literally cut in half (down to just 3 shells, no battleship player deserves punishment so severe as to be only able to fire 3 shots) Also the Deutchlands carried 2 torpedo mounts of 4 tubes each, and the devs said that Battleships wont be able to fire torpedos, but as a cruiser would make perfect sense. (btw what do they plan on doing with battleships that had torps like Tirpitz, Nelson and Scharnhorst?)

        Please, what do you think of the questions posed? 1) which ship should be rendered? 2) low tier battleship or top tier cruiser?

 

I fully endorse this post.  I said all along, they visited the Texas and did all their measuring and modeling from it.  It is in the fact the Texas and not the New York ingame.

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Actually after comparing armor values.... Deutschland should be a t7 cruiser.... before upgrades she has a 6% armor to standard displacement... after upgrades her sisters had over 9% armor to standard displacement.... 

 

The protective scheme included an 80mm side belt which covered the machinery spaces and most of the magazines. Below this was a 50mm strake, which extended for the same length. This main belt was inclined at 13.5° inboard from top to bottom and continued down behind the bulges. Forward and aft of this belt was a 60mm belt, which reduced to 30mm at the stern and 18mm at the bow. Inboard of the main belt was a 45mm thick torpedo bulkhead. Horizontal protection included a main deck, 45mm in thickness, outside the longitudinal bulkheads and generally 30mm elsewhere, and 20mm armour was applied to the 'tween deck. The main barbettes were 100mm and the turret fronts 140mm, the conning tower had 140mm vertical armour plating. The total weight of armour represented 6 per cent of the standard displacement. There were notable differences in the armour schemes for the three ships built broadly to this design -Panzerschiff B, named Admiral Scheer, had the juxtaposition of the main belt armour thicknesses reversed, i.e., the 50mm belt was on top of the 80mm strake, the torpedo bulkhead reduced to 40mm, the after transverse armoured bulkhead increased to 50mm and the barbettes increased to 125mm. Various other modifications increased the total weight of protection to 20 per cent above that of Deutschland and approximated to 9.2 per cent of the standard displacement. For the third ship, Panzerschiff C, later named Admiral Graf Spee, there were further changes in that the side belt was 80mm thick for its full depth and increased to 100mm forward and aft in the way of the main magazine spaces, where it joined the transverse armoured bulkheads, which had also been increased to 100mm. These latter were at frames 30 and 148. This ship also had the torpedo bulkhead extended down to meet the bottom plating between frames 49 and 135. The horizontal protection of Panzerschiff C also differed in that the areas outboard of the torpedo bulkheads were given 30mm plating and the areas over the magazines were increased to 70mm.

 

Deutschland had the torpedo calibre replaced by 21in tubes and armoured shields were fitted to the mountings because of blast danger from the after 11in. The other ships completed with 21in tubes. Directors for the heavy AA were fitted in 1934, one forward, one aft, the 3.9in singles were replaced by more modern 3.9in twin LC31, and the 3.7cm guns were finally fitted. The catapult was eventually fitted during her refit from November 1935 to January 1936. The aircraft initially issued was the He60c floatplane, later replaced by the Arado 196, operated by 1/ or 5/Bordfliegerstaffel, these being responsible for all shipboard aircraft. Modifications to her rig had been made during the 1930s, but during the repairs of the damage incurred off Spain in 1937, the searchlights were re-arranged and a shallow raked funnel cap was added in 1938. In 1940 she received four extra 2cm, two each in single mountings on the forecastle and quarterdeck. When repairs were in hand following torpedo damage incurred during the invasion of Norway in 1940, she received 4.1in/10.5cm guns in modified 3.9in twin mountings, and the bows were given more rake. In 1942 a much larger funnel cap was fitted, and she was given two army-pattern quadruple 2cm as a temporary measure (one on the forward turret top) as well as extra 2cm guns. By 1944 her light AA consisted of eight 3.7cm and eleven 2cm, the latter all in single mountings. By the summer of that year, however, she had been given two 40mm Bofors, which replaced the forward pair of 3.7cm mountings and possibly four more. She now had three quadruple 2cm, six twin and two singles, in shielded mountings. The planned outfit of ten fully automatic 37mm and twenty-eight 2cm was never implemented. Radar was added in 1940 and updated later in the war.

 

Admiral Scheer received only minor modifications until after the outbreak of the Second Word War when, during her refit at Wilhelmshaven from February to July 1940, the heavy tower structure was removed and replaced by a lighter tubular structure on the lines of Deutschland (now renamed Lutzow), although the layout differed. The bows were rebuilt and raked, and a large funnel cap was added. The 3.9in were replaced by 4.1in and two army-pattern quadruple 2cm were fitted, one on the forward 11in turret, the second under the after main turret. Radar was also fitted. In 1942 radar was fitted to the after range-finder and the funnel cap increased in size. By mid 1944 the AA outfit had been increased to twenty-nine 2cm in five quadruple and nine singles, plus the original 3.7cm. She was eventually to receive four 40mm single Flak 28, four 3.7cm (in two twins) and no less than forty-two 2cm in six quad and nine twin, but this was never completed.

 

so yeah T7 sounds good.

 

and Sheer looked beautiful after they added the clipper bow.... like Scharnhorst and Bismarck.

Edited by Mourneblade

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I think it could be an odd extension out of the BB line and CA line, who knows how they will tier it, no armor, 11" guns and torps makes it interesting its also slow for a CA with a speed of 28kts. There are at least many refits the ship can go under, and a paper upgrade to the longer 11" guns of the BC class with the long names 

 

To change the subject a little, where do Scharnhorst and Gneisenau come into the tiers and as what, Heavy Cruisers or Battleships?  They had heavier armor than Deutschland Class Ships and were scheduled for conversion to 6 15 inch guns in double turrets rather than the 9 11 inch in triple turrets.  The conversion was actually started on the Gneisenau though not completed.  Oh yeah they also had 6 21 inch torpedo tubes.

 

bo

Edited by bodidlyharp

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To change the subject a little, where do Scharnhorst and Gneisenau come into the tiers and as what, Heavy Cruisers or Battleships?  They had heavier armor than Deutschland Class Ships and were scheduled for conversion to 6 15 inch guns in double turrets rather than the 9 11 inch in triple turrets.  The conversion was actually started on the Gneisenau though not completed.

bo

 

T7 fast battleships.

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So far the policy seems to have been that any ship with guns larger then 8 inch is in the BB category, partially due to the Naval Treaty that set the limit of 8 inch guns on cruises.

 

But from a personal point, the german navy could use the ship in the cruiser slot, first because after the Hipper, pretty much only fantasy ships, 2nd it would make a interesting ship in the cruiser class.

 

But only if she had faster firing 11 inch guns on quicker turning turrets.

 

Maybe this is one ship class that could be placed in both groups. With some tweaking.

 

Make the Cruiser Line with the more nimble 11 inch guns, but with range to 16 as the other cruisers, it would give her half the guns of the others, but with better penetration and damage if it hits. Give her good AA.

The BB line make her guns and turrets slower, remove the torp, make the AA average and give her guns range. To compete with only 6 barrels, and the lesser damage then 14 or higher guns, she should still have very good rate of fire when compared to other BB, and longer range to allow her to dance at distance as she would die quickly with no armor at close range.

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