Grand Battleship Battle Royale

[Battleship_Unknown2]

FIGHT!

 

The concept here is fairly simple -- this is a tournament-style bout. I'm not listing brackets (it would lead to all kinds of squabbling about seeding), but rather leaving it up to the voters to decide who comes in first in second when the dust settles. Generally speaking, of these contenders (who are basically in the same weight/age class -- I've excluded Yamato and Musashi for obvious reasons), who comes in first and second overall?

 

There are some rules, of course:

• All combatants are willing. Thus, a ship cannot run away (so speed means less than it might -- there is no evading enemies; only staying on the edges of their gun ranges if your boat carries the longer guns).

• Also, this isn't some melee -- we're rather pretending that ship X fights ship Y, while ship Z fights ship W. Ultimately, the cream should float to the top, which would naturally leave us with the same victors no matter what the early bouts look like.

• This is a purely numbers game. We're not accounting for lucky shots, etc. In essence, we are ranking first and second.

• Additionally, please try to leave nationalism at the door -- we're just looking for the best overall candidate. If you don't have a lot of information to go on, go with your gut.

Finally... all battles occur on a crystal clear sunny day. All ships lack radar, just to be a fairer evaluation of the ship itself (and not the set she was equipped with). All ships may be equipped with float planes IF they had the capability to launch them.

 

Some caveats:

• I didn't include any ships older than 1920 unless they received significant, extensive tear-downs between the war.

• I included Scharnhorst because there is a great deal of historical debate about whether they were BCs or small BBs.

• If a ship was newer than 1920 but never significantly modified, she had to carry at least 15" guns.

[icoleman]

Scharnhorst class will be the best class in my opinion.

[madmanthan21]

Iowa, KGV

[Battleship_Unknown2]

madmanthan21, on 06 April 2013 - 11:21 PM, said:

Iowa, KGV

KGV over Vanguard? That's bold.

Also, my vote was Vanguard, Richelieu.

I honestly expect Iowa to run away with number one not because she was a clear-cut winner, but because it's been preached hardcore from the pulpit that she was the 'best ever.' The race for number two might actually be more interesting.

[madmanthan21]

PrincessRoyal, on 06 April 2013 - 11:21 PM, said:

KGV over Vanguard? That's bold.

Also, my vote was Vanguard, Richelieu.

I just like KGV better, i would have voted SoDak

[Eyeless_Camper]

• Richeliue

• Iowa

I dont know i just have a thing for French battleships  :tongue:

[Battleship_Unknown2]

Eyeless_Camper, on 06 April 2013 - 11:30 PM, said:

• Richeliue
  
• Iowa

I dont know i just have a thing for French battleships  :tongue:

So do I. It's one of those dark little secrets I walk around with. It's funny... because my fascination with the French ships never existed until Napoleon Total War opened my eyes to the fact that -- for one shining historical moment -- France was cool.

Plus, the Richelieu's were well-built boats. I think their turrets being disabled would be their downfall, but that again goes to lucky shots. In terms of fighting capability, I think they were nearly the equal of Vanguard, both of which come 1-2 when you rank European designs. Whether or not either prevails over the Americans really comes down to who you think built better ships.

[MM2ss]

I went Iowa Vanguard.  If anyone was wondering who voted without posting.

[Eyeless_Camper]

But you did post, so you are lying in your post, or?  :amazed:

 

My brain is overheating, better cool it down, been thinking too much lately :hiding:

[Windhover118]

I voted for Iowa and South Dakota although North Carolina I suppose could be a close third. There might be some American bias on my part but my decision was based off of the fact that these ships had an effective immune zone against the guns of the other ships on the list while at the same time, the super heavy shells used by all three of these ships allow them to effectivly defeat the armor of the competing ships. The Nagato is also a close contender but its important to factor in the extra gun on the American ships which combined with the shells, gives the Iowa, SD and NC accuracy and firepower advantages. All three of these ships also possess superior speed giving them the ability to control the engagment ranges. Richelieu has comparable armor to the Nortch Carolina (if not superior) and she has a good top speed but once again her guns let her down slightly, she could potentially close to a distance where she can defeat the armor of the American ships but she would most likely take a pounding herself in the process.

 

edit: Sorry, I missed the part in the original post where none of the ships have radar. Guess that means no radar directed fire control either.

[Gigaton]

Needs at least West Virginia (modernized) to represent the standards. It got significant rebuild between mid 43-44 which included bulging, extra deck armour, new secondaries and FCS.

[Jagdzeit]

Vanguard and scharnhorst

[Snakehead1234]

You must have made a mistake there is no Kongo on that list. She is fast, has 14 inch guns, and was updated enough to fit in.

[Robert9670]

I picked the Queen Elizabeth - class (modernized) as best overall, with the Conte di Cavour - class as the runner-up.  I'd like to see a match between them once the Italians and British are added into the game and see which is better.

[Super_Dreadnought]

Why is the Yamato class absent?

[MM2ss]

Size and displacement considerations.

[Snakehead1234]

Ok so why isn't Kongo included?

[MM2ss]

Operator error, it sailed into an ambush on the way to the battle royale.

[Battleship_Unknown2]

Deadnought, on 07 April 2013 - 02:06 AM, said:

Why is the Yamato class absent?

Because without radar, Yamato class is an auto-win. A single Iowa could not take a single Yamato... at least I don't believe that... not if all things were equal.

[Battleship_Unknown2]

Snakehead1234, on 07 April 2013 - 02:22 AM, said:

Ok so why isn't Kongo included?

14" guns. And there's a rather strong case to be made that they were still BCs even after the 'upgrades.' This isn't a popularity contest. And Kongo would not beat this field.

[Super_Dreadnought]

PrincessRoyal, on 07 April 2013 - 02:35 AM, said:

Because without radar, Yamato class is an auto-win. A single Iowa could not take a single Yamato... at least I don't believe that... not if all things were equal.

Okay so if I understand this correctly, this poll is actually a battle for 2nd and 3rd place then?

[Battleship_Unknown2]

Deadnought, on 07 April 2013 - 02:39 AM, said:

Okay so if I understand this correctly, this poll is actually a battle for 2nd and 3rd place then?

First and second place in the general weight/power class. And I emphasize 'general.' The Yamatos represent an outlying integer, not equaled unless we include fantasy ships. Really, if we're going to rate the Yamatos, we need a poll populated by never-builts.

[Azumazi]

I went with Iowa first and Vanguard second (I see MM2ss did as well)

 

Reasons are as follows.

 

Iowa without radar still out classes all the other vessels with her firepower and her shells. She still has good fcs without radar and her armor is good enough to let her stand and fight against the other ships.

Vanguard is second mostly because of its exceptionally well designed armor layout which upgraded the KGV setup and removed a lot of its flaws. South Dakota is a good vessel, but in a stand up fight without radar I feel Vanguard would have beat her in a 1 on 1. Sodak might have better turret armor, but it would be far easier for Vanguard to knock out a turret and reduce her fighting capacity at a faster rate, Vanguard also has a better immunity zone vs South Dakota, the same follows with the North Carolina class. Richelieu also falls into those catagories, but her major downfall is the quad turrets making it far easier to mission kill her with a good lucky hit.

[Snakehead1234]

PrincessRoyal, on 07 April 2013 - 02:36 AM, said:

14" guns. And there's a rather strong case to be made that they were still BCs even after the 'upgrades.' This isn't a popularity contest. And Kongo would not beat this field.

Well when it comes down to the Snakehead scale of warships the Kongo beats the rest of those vessels by a ratio of 3:1. So I believe you should make up a similar thread to this one that will include older and less heavily armed warships. So you can include the Kongo as well as older more beautiful vessels such as the Pennsylvania class, Nevada class, New York class, Fusō-class, and all the other warships that deserve a thread.

[Super_Dreadnought]

My choices:

 

1. Iowa

2. Vanguard