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ArIskandir

T6 - Double Sub, Double CV every match... unplayable?

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Well it isn't double Sub and Double CV every match but double Subs are quite common and at least one CV is also common. I say...

 

FEED ME MOAR!

ktH9xOQ.png

The weekend harvest... I actually went down to T6 in order to fight against Submarines consistently, the CVs are a bonus.

In 7 matches in Gokase, I've directly sunk 4 Submarines and been instrumental in detecting and sinking another 4. 

I've been unlucky in Monaghan and haven't been able to collect any Sub pelts, but I've got a couple CV scalps...

T3EXE9s.png

Unplayable? ... I probably will stop playing T6 for a while because I'm starting to feel like a dirty seal clubber. 

This new meta is kinda fun! ... that coming from a "surface ship" perspective. 

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Not everyone has your skill.

Also, not every game is a bust.

BUT,

When you get 2 decent cv drivers that tag team 1 ship , then another....

It is a different story.

A good sub driver will work with a dd or cruiser to gang up on a ship.

A sub can cause the average player to burn a dcp and then laugh as a cruiser set 3 permanent fires....

So the complaint isn't that it's game breaking, but that the majority of the player base are tired of being harassed by planes and pings...

And I am pretty sure the game is not balanced in a 12 v 12 with 4 carriers, 6 subs and 4 dds in a match...

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7 minutes ago, Pretty_Rkless said:

Not everyone has your skill.

He's done a lot of work on learning the ins and outs of submarines from the sub player's perspective, so I'm not surprised to find him dealing with them well from the surface ship side. 

Maybe others should take that hint. 

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14 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

He's done a lot of work on learning the ins and outs of submarines from the sub player's perspective, so I'm not surprised to find him dealing with them well from the surface ship side. 

Maybe others should take that hint. 

I wish I could say "Git Gud" like that to a large portion of the player base and not get kickback, lol. 

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11 minutes ago, Junpei_MT said:

I wish I could say "Git Gud" like that to a large portion of the player base and not get kickback, lol. 

I'm not saying "Git Gud", I'm saying "Know thy enemy". Of course the people who'd rather cut off both their hands than play a sub or carrier even on the public test server aren't going to take that advice, but I think they're the poorer for it. 

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It's been a CV free weekend for me in coop which sucks because I'm trying the shoot planes down in the Guadalcanal mission chain. I've probably played 60+ games in coop and not a single one.

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2 hours ago, ArIskandir said:

I probably will stop playing T6 for a while because I'm starting to feel like a dirty seal clubber. 

This new meta is kinda fun! ... that coming from a "surface ship" perspective. 

Don’t forget there’s som T5-6 only missions up right now. Also the Guadalcanal missions.

1 hour ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

He's done a lot of work on learning the ins and outs of submarines from the sub player's perspective, so I'm not surprised to find him dealing with them well from the surface ship side. 

Maybe others should take that hint. 

Long since realized.

Countervoted.

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Need to make that kind of investment appealing. Not being able to retaliate or dodge within seconds hurts the motivation.

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1 hour ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

He's done a lot of work on learning the ins and outs of submarines from the sub player's perspective, so I'm not surprised to find him dealing with them well from the surface ship side. 

Maybe others should take that hint. 

On first round of testing played both T8 & T10's. Found German T10 to be my boat....

Didn't really understand all the stuff, but getting over 100k was nice.

2nd or 3rd round stuck with German T10....

Last round of testing 1 game in German T10.

....

Since released,  1 round int T6 US, and 1 round in each German T6 & T8...

Still liking German boats, but is fairly boring to play.

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The best way to deal with a sub is to charge right at them if you have any form of ASW. Now if you don't have that don't sail in a straight line for very long.

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2 hours ago, BrushWolf said:

The best way to deal with a sub is to charge right at them if you have any form of ASW. Now if you don't have that don't sail in a straight line for very long.

Frankly that is the absolute worst thing you can do against a sub that knows what they're doing as the preferred engagement distance of a sub ultimately is up close and personal.

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6 hours ago, BrushWolf said:

The best way to deal with a sub is to charge right at them if you have any form of ASW. Now if you don't have that don't sail in a straight line for very long.

No, that's what you shouldn't do. Charging the Sub will get you killed if the Sub player isn't a total noob. You could end up like this.

 

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6 hours ago, BrushWolf said:

The best way to deal with a sub is to charge right at them if you have any form of ASW. Now if you don't have that don't sail in a straight line for very long.

 

3 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

Frankly that is the absolute worst thing you can do against a sub that knows what they're doing as the preferred engagement distance of a sub ultimately is up close and personal.

 Rushing a sub works in coop, mostly because they charge you and won't shotgun.

I'm not certain I'd try it in random.

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11 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

He's done a lot of work on learning the ins and outs of submarines from the sub player's perspective, so I'm not surprised to find him dealing with them well from the surface ship side. 

Maybe others should take that hint. 

They are..........and, it was a lot of fun elsewhere....  We have taken the hint and can't find enough players to play OPS with even six players;  or CB's without max merc's; or, even get beyond 15 clan stars divisioning....  Yep, we've taken the hint and pretty soon, you and the OP will be all that are left playing what was once a great game....!   Where is WoPs?  Are we steadily increasing our game population or are we on a slow decreasing population pace?  It seems a great many have "taken the hint" and are "taking a break" - some permanently and some till snowflakes and xmas crates that "ARE THE TEST" for long term retention decisions....  

I really didn't play WoWs this weekend (all day Friday through all day Sunday) all that much and have a record of what I played on paper (since I am recording another 300 COOP matches...)  0 ops (that I love); 0 PVP in any form; 0 Naval Battles (which I have given up completely); 32 daily matches in COOP; and, a bunch of hours of gameplay in other games and 10 hours at a shooting competition.....

Maybe, "taking the hint" isn't on players like me anymore..........

 

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1 hour ago, ArIskandir said:

No, that's what you shouldn't do. Charging the Sub will get you killed if the Sub player isn't a total noob. You could end up like this.

So, let's look at this.   We hate the fact that ships hide behind terrain which makes gameplay boring and counter intuitive;  and, we now can't use "movement to contact" because a sub can and will simply kill you;    AND, since ASW is a hot mess and really is ineffective, I guess we "just shouldn't play against subs", and what, wait them out???  Does that sound fun when you have a 30+ knot ship idling with only it's nose "just beyond the terrain" hoping to shoot at something cause Radar (no countermeasures and it's 100% effective), planes (since AA is a hot mess) and now submarines (where ASW simply doesn't work) simply will annihilate you should you try???

Naval warfare isn't tank warfare - especially, since the game in centered around the earlier part of the 20th century where "speed and formation control" was LIFE.......and victory.....

Since we seem to have given that up, what's the point of even playing??? 

How many times does it take the average player ending up "like this" till they leave the game???  For me, I won't leave but a whole lot of others have "retired" or left......  We see that every time we can't find seven for a CB, Div in Ops., or anything else.....

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29 minutes ago, Asym_KS said:

We hate the fact that ships hide behind terrain which makes gameplay boring and counter intuitive;  and, we now can't use "movement to contact" because a sub can and will simply kill you;    AND, since ASW is a hot mess and really is ineffective, I guess we "just shouldn't play against subs", and what, wait them out??? 

Imo, interacting with Submarines in the game breaks the established "shoot'em all" paradigm of the game. A big part of why I find the ASW interactions attractive is they are much more "cerebral", the interactions are more decision based than just "key smashing"... In a way it is a game of wits and rewards knowledge, judgement and temperance. Having "perfect aim" and masterful WASD skill won't get you far against a Submarine, but being able to position correctly and manage time in your favor will give you positive results. I think someone as intellectually inclined as you, would find the ASW dynamic interesting if you give it a chance and think beyond the "shooter" paradigm. 

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2 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

Imo, interacting with Submarines in the game breaks the established "shoot'em all" paradigm of the game. A big part of why I find the ASW interactions attractive is they are much more "cerebral", the interactions are more decision based than just "key smashing"... In a way it is a game of wits and rewards knowledge, judgement and temperance. Having "perfect aim" and masterful WASD skill won't get you far against a Submarine, but being able to position correctly and manage time in your favor will give you positive results. I think someone as intellectually inclined as you, would find the ASW dynamic interesting if you give it a chance and think beyond the "shooter" paradigm. 

No.  And, I really wanted to see Subs and would have latched onto the tactics they infer and generate....  Unfortunately, they destroyed COOP for them.  And, just like Update 8.0,"gimmicked" them to sell them....  And, let's be honest:  if we had equal ASW (SONAR and solid ASW mechanics) sub's really wouldn't be an issue....   But, homing torpedoes?  No.......there were IRL,  as many dud warshots as ones that caused damage....  And yet, here we are with "fool proof ordinances" yet again....  We'll never see Subs "balanced" because, as you said, they are a "thinking weapon" and in their game form now, they simply are a gimmick....... 

This is an arcade, very young adult shooter that has lost any connections to early 20th century Naval warfare other than what the ships look like and, it was fun while it lasted these past 5 years....  Now, it's a slow ride till it becomes a once a week game with friends and, if game history is true to form, a static population of diehards where I will be able to come back to active play in 2 or 3 years and see the same people still playing......and, commenting on the forum.  I have three other older games that are actually at that stage and I play them once a quarter now and talk to old friends on their forums......  Nothing has changed those games and nothing will change this game:  it's too expensive and the IP they once had a solid niche market hold on, is long lost to neglect and massive amounts of failures to innovate...

Thanks for the reply and I really had a lot of hope.....

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Where has the sub gone? When will he surface? He going W, N, S, or E? When to turn to try frustrating his shotgun?

Frankly, those mind games are very annoying. I'm here to have fun, not get ice water dumped all over.

Restoring sub-to-sub proxy spotting as well as having hydro detect subs up to 5km away would be ideal fixes.

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3 hours ago, Reymu said:

Where has the sub gone? When will he surface? He going W, N, S, or E? When to turn to try frustrating his shotgun?

Frankly, those mind games are very annoying. I'm here to have fun, not get ice water dumped all over.

I don't know what to tell you... mind games is what I find fun. Thinking is fun!

3 hours ago, Reymu said:

Restoring sub-to-sub proxy spotting

Yup, that would be great. It would make Subs more attractive to play for me.

3 hours ago, Reymu said:

having hydro detect subs up to 5km away

This is simply not viable, it would be the same as condemning Subs to only ever use homing torps from long range, which is unbelievably boring and dull.

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4 hours ago, Reymu said:

Frankly, those mind games are very annoying. I'm here to have fun, not get ice water dumped all over.

Was chased 3/4 across the map by a sub today.  Was in a Rooke BB on the left side, and once that flank collapsed, had to deal with a sub and some distant BBs. So I high tailed it south, got out of the red BB range but was still Detected. I'm at full speed, getting pinged, dodging torps and dropping useless Dc. This went on for minutes. Dropped on the sub at least 7 times for one hit. Finally reached the bottom of the map, had to turn right, and he sunk me.

One of the longest periods of frustration I have ever had in this game. Perma spotted, ineffective DCs, no sense of where to drop , and sub doing 28kts+.

And then I got a survey about this release and the f'n graphics!!!

Also a battle today with 1 CV, 2 subs, and FIVE DDs per side, and me the only cruiser. 

This game used to be fun and relaxing, now a lot of it just raises my blood pressure!

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16 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

Frankly that is the absolute worst thing you can do against a sub that knows what they're doing as the preferred engagement distance of a sub ultimately is up close and personal.

Yeah, my mind was in co-op mode when I wrote that but some ships can't extend the distance very well if at all so getting into ASW range becomes the only option.

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Lately I have noticed that subs stay a lot longer on the surface because they have worked out how to use the built-in buffed saturation mechanics they were given to make people play them.

They are playing more like very fast DDs.

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