CL vs Submarines: More examples.

[ArIskandir]

I wouldn't recommend go hunting Submarines in a CL, but under the right conditions is something that can be done following certain safety measures.

I'm having a great time playing Gokase, I'm very surprised at how good she is... if the rest of the line is like this, I'll be up for a very enjoyable ride. (tho I doubt it, later ships like comparatively much more clumsier). Anyway, I've been finding Subs in every match, thing I don't regret as I have a lot of fun flapping the poor cans. Gokase has proved very apt for the job given her combo of Hydro, speed and good rudder shift. Having a nimble ship is very important when going Sub hunting. 

Here some examples of engagements against Submarines. It is T6 so different circumstances to T10, not every aspect can be extrapolated but the general principles remain.

Before we begin, Rule #1: Never rush a Sub unless you have an advantageous situation. Meaning, often the best choice is to delay the engagement until the conditions are in your favor, if you know what you are doing, you can stall a Submarine and nullify it. Believe it or not, Submarines can have it very difficult to deliver damage on aware targets that deny them the chance of a shotgun attack.

Match 1:  I've had to deal with this Sub in front of me for the whole match, he actually did a decent job and ranked 4th in his team, by his stats he is a good player. The tactic here is to fisrt eliminate the Submarine support and then go for the kill. As you can see it is until the end of the match that I am able to close the distance. I've been using the islands for protection and to keep tabs on the Sub location (via spotted indicator), for my last approach I use island cover to try and get into Hydro range, which I manage succesfully. Once within Hydro range it is a procedural kill, notice I don't need to close the distance, my weapon of choice is guns and exhausting the Sub dive time.

Match 2: I'm isolated contesting a cap against a DD and a Sub, I can't attack the Sub until the DD is eliminated. After sinking the DD I stall and use the island as cover waiting for my Hydro to recharge, once the Hydro is on, the Sub is revealed and promptly dies. Notice all the while I was perfectly safe from the Sub.

Match 3: I'm screening ahead of my BB, I suspect the I-56 is nearby and given its horrible concealment and dive time, there's almost zero chance of a nasty surprise. Once the I-56 is spotted it becomes roadkill, I just ran him over dodging the torps without issue. I use DCP on the last ditch torp salvo just to be sure. 

Match 4: Unexpected Submarine encounter on my way to a yolo torp execution. I need to wait some time over the Submarine in order to wait for my hydro to recharge. The safest place is trying to stay on top of the Submarine, I also keep circling in order to throw off any attempt of the Sub to read my bearing with its hydro and difficult any ambush chance. I see my allied DD coming down the channel so I know that escape route is covered, I position in order to cover the other routes of escape. Once Hydro recharges, the Sub dies... Would have dies anyway because lack of dive time.

[Wolfswetpaws]

[HyperFish]

3 hours ago, ArIskandir said:

I wouldn't recommend go hunting Submarines in a CL, but under the right conditions is something that can be done following certain safety measures.

No, I want a one size fits all solution that will guarantee I can kill any submarine in any ship from any part of the map. I don't want to think about "mechanics" or "tactics". 

"Some guy" on youtube says subs are bad and the fact that this may not be true will cause my tiny pea brain to blow. 

STOP CHALLENGING THE WORLDVIEW THAT SOME GUY HAS CREATED FOR ME!

[HyperFish]

3 hours ago, ArIskandir said:

I wouldn't recommend go hunting Submarines in a CL, but under the right conditions is something that can be done following certain safety measures.

In all seriousness, it's another great video. Thanks. 

[Mizzerys_Fate]

I'm enjoying her too....

Just this morning I guessed which way sub would turn and got a kill....

Fun ship. Low alpha but man those fires....

[ArIskandir]

11 hours ago, Pretty_Rkless said:

Fun ship. Low alpha but man those fires....

Yeah, very fun ship, fairly flexible. The alpha feels nice when you nuke half a DDs HP in one salvo ;p

[El2aZeR]

20 hours ago, ArIskandir said:

ranked 4th in his team

Just to note, sub bxp gain is heavily inflated so their position on the scoreboard does not necessarily correspond to their match impact. E.g. a match that will net you ~2k bxp in any other class will net you 3-4k bxp in subs.

Also that first sub could have literally just solo warrior'd the game if they were smart and had simply rushed you down. They clearly saw you on hydrophone too given that they tried to ping you using it.
In general there is a pretty obvious pattern as to what all of these sub players are doing wrong.

[ArIskandir]

27 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Just to note, sub bxp gain is heavily inflated so their position on the scoreboard does not necessarily correspond to their match impact.

I suspected as much but I don't really have way to prove it. It is very easy to farm good XP in Subs. 

27 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Also that first sub could have literally just solo warrior'd the game if they were smart and had simply rushed you down.

Indeed, a full HP Sub could have carried that match if he got me killed. Tbh I was very surprised he managed to use the hydro to begin with, I was a bit careless by asuming full potatoness  

Given the situation I don't think he had the position or time enough to rush me and got scared about yoloing me at surface.

[ArIskandir]

23 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

n general there is a pretty obvious pattern as to what all of these sub players are doing wrong.

It is a similar situation to CVs, an elite player could use the cards at hand to dominate you, but there are so few of those that they are not statustically relevant... The thing is elite players always drop with at least one of those so the exploits are always evident 

[ArIskandir]

31 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Just to note

Btw, I'm now certain the tracer originates from the marker, not the actual Sub position. Of course it has become mostly useless.

[Mizzerys_Fate]

Nice video showing a couple of good counters...

If I may ask, what's your camera height set on, as you seem to be able to spot the wake easier than I can..

[ArIskandir]

13 minutes ago, Pretty_Rkless said:

If I may ask, what's your camera height set on, as you seem to be able to spot the wake easier than I can..

I think it is the Default?... I haven't touch the thing

[Mizzerys_Fate]

2 hours ago, ArIskandir said:

I think it is the Default?... I haven't touch the thing

Thanks.

I definitely have to raise my height, because I have serious issues finding that ping indicator.