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maxirater

coop should be like operations mode

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I really enjoy coop but the mode is ruined by the fact that you are guaranteed to have a DD, cruiser and BB rush at you so there is no variety of gameplay. So you have 12 guys all rush straight in shooting at bots and will get at most 2 or 3 because the bots are easy to kill and the game will be over in 3 minutes. Compare that to operations mode where you travel over a large map and have ships spawn at various areas of the map. The problem with operations mode is that the exact same ships spawn at the exact same locations ever time, so you are guaranteed to have the exact same game every time. So there needs to be more randomization in operations mode as far as what kind of ships spawn and where they spawn. Also have different paths and objective points. So basically if you have larger maps in coop like operations mode with ships that spawn in different areas at different times, it fixes the problems of coop and operations mode at the same time, provided that operations mode is fixed by being more random.

Edited by maxirater

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18 minutes ago, maxirater said:

I really enjoy coop but the mode is ruined by the fact that you are guaranteed to have a DD, cruiser and BB rush at you so there is no variety of gameplay. So you have 12 guys all rush straight in shooting at bots and will get at most 2 or 3 because the bots are easy to kill and the game will be over in 3 minutes. Compare that to operations mode where you travel over a large map and have ships spawn at various areas of the map. The problem with operations mode is that the exact same ships spawn at the exact same locations ever time, so you are guaranteed to have the exact same game every time. So there needs to be more randomization in operations mode as far as what kind of ships spawn and where they spawn. Also have different paths and objective points. So basically if you have larger maps in coop like operations mode with ships that spawn in different areas at different times, it fixes the problems of coop and operations mode at the same time, provided that operations mode is fixed by being more random.

1. It's actually, 9, not 12, guys on a coop team.

2. And actually, bots do, on occasion, take different paths, which can be rather annoying at time.  It's annoying when the enemy bots head to a different cap, leaving you and your spawn mates with no one to fight, except you don't realize it for a few minutes.  And you have a crappy game through no fault of your own.

3. If you're playing high tier ships in coop, you'll already be on very large maps.  And if you're playing mid tier ships, those mid tier BBs will likely be too slow to want to use on larger high tier maps.

4. If you add additional enemy bots, you end up screwing up the victory point calculus.  And it's not that easy to fix.  Operations works out well in this regard because victory points aren't part of determining who wins or loses.

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6 hours ago, Crucis said:

1. It's actually, 9, not 12, guys on a coop team.

2. And actually, bots do, on occasion, take different paths, which can be rather annoying at time.  It's annoying when the enemy bots head to a different cap, leaving you and your spawn mates with no one to fight, except you don't realize it for a few minutes.  And you have a crappy game through no fault of your own.

3. If you're playing high tier ships in coop, you'll already be on very large maps.  And if you're playing mid tier ships, those mid tier BBs will likely be too slow to want to use on larger high tier maps.

4. If you add additional enemy bots, you end up screwing up the victory point calculus.  And it's not that easy to fix.  Operations works out well in this regard because victory points aren't part of determining who wins or loses.

This.  They would have to completely rework coop to fix all the things that can cause problems.

And that doesn't even include that maps for random aren't really as suitable for coop.

This is probably more trouble than WG than they think it is worth.

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On 11/10/2022 at 1:51 PM, DrHolmes52 said:

This.  They would have to completely rework coop to fix all the things that can cause problems

WG has bot behavior coded already that would greatly improve the enjoyment in co-op. They have it, but they won't implement it.

Why? My guess is that if co-op would become enjoyable a significant amount of players would switch from randoms to co-op. This could have the effect of queue times for randoms becoming unacceptably long.

Whether this conclusion is right or wrong doesn’t matter so much. The point is that the current poor bot behavior in co-op is not a technical matter but a business decision. 

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3 hours ago, Lazy_Joe said:

WG has bot behavior coded already that would greatly improve the enjoyment in co-op. They have it, but they won't implement it.

Why? My guess is that if co-op would become enjoyable a significant amount of players would switch from randoms to co-op. This could have the effect of queue times for randoms becoming unacceptably long.

Whether this conclusion is right or wrong doesn’t matter so much. The point is that the current poor bot behavior in co-op is not a technical matter but a business decision. 

I'm not think they are intentionally making the AI the way it is to make it less enjoyable.  I believe it is more to make it take X number of games in coop equal to Y number of games in random to complete task Z.

Which means if you don't get a large percentage of green bots, the results are much more normalized.  Making it less enjoyable, but that being more a symptom.

But yes, it is a business decision.

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2 hours ago, DrHolmes52 said:

I'm not think they are intentionally making the AI the way it is to make it less enjoyable.  I believe it is more to make it take X number of games in coop equal to Y number of games in random to complete task Z.

Which means if you don't get a large percentage of green bots, the results are much more normalized.  Making it less enjoyable, but that being more a symptom.

But yes, it is a business decision.

Thats a very observant point you make. And after having thought about it for a while, I think it is a bad business decision for the kind of game WoWS is. There are some games that you play for a few months and get bored of. There are some games you might play for years but are still just time waster games. And then there are games you live with, that you invest a lot of your time and life into. WoWS is the later. So yes its true in the short term it will reduce the number of people playing with live players, in the long term it will keep players, as you can only do so much with the modes that are 20 minute matches with live players which then will get old after a year or two and drive players away.

Edited by maxirater

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they could just give us the option of asymetric battles...  more bots less players

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