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Necronomicon1

New IJN light cruisers

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TBH Wargaming you should just take back the new IJN line and rework them . They got to be some of the worst ships ive played in a long time , its like you taken all the good stuff from the other IJN cruisers and nerfed them into the ground. 

Horrible shell flight time, Aveful reload 15secs comon and the dmg from the guns is non existant you could put 10 more turrets on them and it would not make a diffrens all you see the few times you land a shell is shatters even with 11,5% fire chanse you wont set any fires due to it takes a week b4 the shells land ample time for the ships you shoot at to move away  . No armor what so ever and lets not talk about the turing circle even the Moskva turns faster than they do, Torps are decent but hey with the current horrible camping/ back line meta playstyle you guys created you dont dare to get close with these ships for the torps to be of any use,. So back to the drawing board with these ships and do a proper job 

Edited by Necronomicon1
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3 minutes ago, Necronomicon1 said:

TBH Wargaming you should just take back the new IJN line and rework them . They got to be some of the worst ships ive played in a long time , its like you taken all the good stuff from the other IJN cruisers and nerfed them into the ground. 

Horrible shell flight time, Aveful reload 15secs comon . No armor what so ever and lets not talk about the turing circle even the Moskva turns faster than they do, Torps are decent but hey with the current horrible camping/ back line meta playstyle you guys created you dont dare to get close with these ships for the torps to be of any use,. So back to the drawing board with these ships and do a proper job 

I did 86k in the tier 6....

 

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41 minutes ago, Necronomicon1 said:

Horrible shell flight time, Aveful reload 15secs comon and the dmg from the guns is non existant you could put 10 more turrets on them and it would not make a diffrens all you see the few times you land a shell is shatters even with 11,5% fire chanse you wont set any fires due to it takes a week b4 the shells land ample time for the ships you shoot at to move away  .

The 150mm guns were made by the Imperial Japanese Army. Despite the murderous feud going on between the army & the navy, those guns were DEFINITELY not at ALL sabotaged during the transfer process...

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6 hours ago, Pretty_Rkless said:

I did 86k in the tier 6....

Surely this means the entire line is entirely fine and doesn't need any tweaking and any complaints anyone ever has about them is complete folly, right?

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14 hours ago, Lert said:

Surely this means the entire line is entirely fine and doesn't need any tweaking and any complaints anyone ever has about them is complete folly, right?

One man's trash is another's art....

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I'm also disappointed. Here's why:

1. Super low effort on the models. They're all just existing ships with some rework. Considering the amount of fantasy in this game the idea of the Tier 10 just being a fattened Atago seems lazy.
2. Gameplay, what is it supposed to be? Honestly, what's the difference in gameplay between the CA and CL in the IJN line? There isn't even much of a gimmick other than torpedoes . . . sort of.
3. Laziness in the sense of not even moving Mogami around but just leaving it open to still use its 155mm. Considering the new Tier 8, whatever its name is, and Mogami are so close to the same boat it's ridiculous.
4.  Missed opportunity for using cool ideas like the Hybrid Tone. We could have had a sweet line of hybrids but they don't want to make those up. Instead, they'll do a line of made-up hybrid USN BB/CVs.
5. They're too weak. I said it but I'm not asking for OP. They just have every flaw of multiple nations mixed into one. No armor, no maneuverability, relatively short range, slow reload a lack of unique or even useful consumables, and poor alpha damage.  Its like stripping the Pan Asian CLs of their smoke and torpedo reload booster but adding in the reload of the Russians, and the general bland play of the existing IJN CA line. It's just bad.

I'm generally not super critical of things in WoWs. I approach almost all of it by trying to look at multiple perspectives and with my own experience. However, the IJN CLs have to be the biggest letdown yet, as I'm a bit of an IJN fanboy (no, not a weeb). The whole line feels like an uninspired, lazy venture to just make a line.

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9 hours ago, Skuggsja said:

No armor, no maneuverability, relatively short range, slow reload a lack of unique or even useful consumables, and poor alpha damage.

I have yet to citadel the things even once while firing at single digit kilometers range with a Kremlin on a somewhat angled target (which should not overpen as easily) in co-op. So talking about them having no armor is a bit amusing to me...

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1 hour ago, Guardian54 said:

I have yet to citadel the things even once while firing at single digit kilometers range with a Kremlin on a somewhat angled target (which should not overpen as easily) in co-op. So talking about them having no armor is a bit amusing to me...

Well, maybe the Tier 10 has better armor or it's because Kremlin likes to over-pen. However, Tier 8 and 6 like to eat citadels from most angles. They're the type of cruiser that is easy to citadel in another cruiser.

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1 hour ago, Skuggsja said:

Well, maybe the Tier 10 has better armor or it's because Kremlin likes to over-pen. However, Tier 8 and 6 like to eat citadels from most angles. They're the type of cruiser that is easy to citadel in another cruiser.

The problem is that I was reading a pile of full pens aiming at waterline belt about 35 degrees off perpendicular, so it wasn't just overpenning. Somehow the Yodo just refused to eat citadels from 18 inch guns at like 9km... tried again at 7 and then again at 5 and someone else finished him thanks to the accumulated damage. Somehow no cits.

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I was just looking at the Stats, and the new Japanese Cruisers are so LOL...really... I guess Togo's victories are still lingering in some people's psyche... so much bias.

The existing old line is already Light Cruisers compared to all other nations..and you guys go and make an even lighter line of IJN cruisers? ... LOL talk about not being in touch with reality.

All the while Russian ships are like made out of Diamond it seems and shooting depleted uranium shells.

Unbeleivable...

News flash for WG, the only reason IJN seems popular is because of Looks, ANIME and Samurai....not because these ships are actually good in the game.

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Agreed the tier 5 and 6 imo are fine but when I got the Shimanto it was horrible I thought it would be a nice fire starter ship with its multiple guns and small caliber but no it has a 10% chance to cause a fire and has a pretty low rate of fire at 10.5 seconds. I haven’t gotten the two tier 7s but tier 8 and up need to get reworked now. Atm they are the worse ships to play, they may have good torp but they’re useless if you can’t get in close. The ships are beautiful but are hot garbage and need a rework now. Give us the fire back!

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So I just came back to play some games in Satsuma and noticed a new IJN Cruiser line. But reading this I am not to thrilled. Did IJN get screwed again? I haven't touched them but if they aren't any better or offer anything different then the Zao line I'm not touching them. Its not disappointing is it?

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I played Tokachi (T7 premium) and Omono so far. I have no interest for the lower tiers really... 
Tokachi is good, pretty good in fact. Omono is a bit disappointing.

Can't talk about the rest of the line just yet, but you can bet I'll purchasing the T8 the day they leave early access, as usual.
My impression of Omono is that it is everything a light cruiser shouldn't be.
1- Squishy with bad concealment. For some reasons, Tokachi is tankier than Omono. Thicker deck, way less 16m on the sides and smaller.
2- No utility. You have to choose between DFAA or Hydro.
3- Bad rate of fire VS the ballistic it gets, with extremely slow turret rotation (36sec for 180 degrees). So not only does it not output a huge volume of shells, but if you need to dodge/reposition, you may not even be able to fire all your guns.
4- Unimpressive maneuverability in relation to the squishiness/concealment.

But it gets nice 13km torpedoes with pretty good firing angles! Except that they are 57 knots slow with 1.7km detectability. You aren't going that many hits with them
In fact, I am getting more torpedo hits with Tokachi (70 knots / 1.6km), even though it only gets triple launchers + TRB VS quad launchers.

So far, I prefer the old line by a huge margin. Myoko is much better ship.  Otherwise Tokachi is a good premium. It's enjoyable and quite strong with proper hands. Can't say the same for Omono.
 

Edited by Mr_Argamas
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28 minutes ago, Mr_Argamas said:

My impression of Omono is that it is everything a light cruiser shouldn't be.
1- Squishy with bad concealment. For some reasons, Tokachi is tankier than Omono. Thicker deck, way less 16m on the sides and smaller.
2- No utility. You have to choose between DFAA or Hydro.
3- Bad rate of fire VS the ballistic it gets, with extremely slow turret rotation (36sec for 180 degrees). So not only does it not output a huge volume of shell, but if you need to dodge/reposition, you may not even be able to fire all your guns.
4- Unimpressive maneuverability in relation to the squishiness/concealment.

Agree with everything here. 

I don't want every new ship to power creep all that has come before it but Omono could use some love. 

The only thing it seems to have going for it is the long range torps with good angles. Unfortunately there are only 4 sloooow torps per side so hitting anything at longer ranges is pure luck.

I guess these torps are the fire-and-forget type. Not that they are guided but by the time you hit anything at long range you will have forgotten you fired them.:Smile_trollface:

 

Edited by Sabot_100
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Agreed, the AP is sad, the HE is good but isn't enough w the slow reload and the armour is just enough to arm everything... the Gokase is a better bote. I find that typically T7 is literally full of duds, particularly in the Perma-Air-Spotting, High-HE-DPM, Fast-Torp & Sub Meta we've been dealt.

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I knew they would be bad just by looking at the stats and previewing these ships.

I got the Agano and confirmed it. And based on that play and my Play with Zao and other IJN I can preview the Yodo and extrapolate that it simply has no place in Tier X battles. 

These Cruisers will be eaten for breakfast by any Tier 10 Destroyer even with their weak armor and other weak characteristics. Do you think you can go against a Mashinegun DD with 12.5 seconds reload? LOL..

At this point in the game, even many existing Cruisers are getting out DPSed by Destroyers.

This line is...useless, waste of time and effort and I am not bothering beyond Agano. No Thanks.

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UPDATE: 

I notice the Omono is doing decent in the stats. Only  6,200 games but the win rate is 52% with 48K damage.  Are we all missing something or is it just a low number of  games with very good players playing them?

 

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4 hours ago, Sabot_100 said:

UPDATE: 

I notice the Omono is doing decent in the stats. Only  6,200 games but the win rate is 52% with 48K damage.  Are we all missing something or is it just a low number of  games with very good players playing them?

 

New ships, especially Premium Ships, get inflated stats.

1.  There is no Stock Module grinding on an Early Access Ship, just like a Premium Ship.  Anyone that has acquired the ship will not have to do the Stock Module grind like when later players have to do when the line goes Fully Live in the Tech Tree.

2.  Early Access Ships are like Premium Ships in that players can freely swap in and out whatever captain they desire, like their 21pt Yamamoto captain, and not have to worry about retraining.

3.  Players may be unfamiliar with the new ship's capabilities.  Not everyone follows every news post, DevBlog entry, forum thread, YT video talking about upcoming ships.

4.  Brand new ships have very small sample sizes (Battles played).  Easily inflated stats.  Omono's stats are attained with few players and having done a paltry 6.5k battles.  That's an insignificant sample size compared to Atlanta (4.2 MILLION battles), Myoko (2.7 million), Helena (1.3 million).  Even the somewhat recent Chumphon that tier has logged 140k.  The larger the sample size the better as we know we got tons of players of various skill levels putting the ship through its paces, and not just a few veteran players inflating the stats.

 

As time passes when the Line goes Fully Live and leaves Early Access, those stats will drop.  It always has happened after ships have been out a while.

 

When the RNCL Line was new, Tier X Minotaur's stats were really high due to early adopters, veteran players FreeXP'ing on Day 1.  They made the ship shine.  Server stats for the ship had her doing among the best of the best Tier X Cruiser damage.  There were many posts around the forums calling for Nerfs to Minotaur.  WG never did oblige and left Minotaur alone.  Sure enough after time, those stats for Mino dropped like a sack of potatoes.  Eventually those demands of Mino nerfs died out and everybody just laughed at the ship because they knew what to expect from it.

 

Below is a post of mine from a while back talking about how Smolensk and Stalingrad's stats went down for various reasons.  Smolensk's stats were actually once quite a bit higher.  However, as more players got a hold of the ships the stats went down.  Stalingrad's case is a bit extreme because it was once only used by hardcore Competitive PVPers, but Smolensk is a normal Premium release.  High initial stats that actually went down when more people got the bote.

 

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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30 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

As time passes when the Line goes Fully Live and leaves Early Access, those stats will drop.  It always has happened after ships have been out a while.

Huanghe bucked that trend. Generally panned when released, it started pretty well in the stats. Now with many years and 120K games under its (very thin) belt, it is still in the top third of the rankings.

Still might be due to mostly being driven by good players that can make it work but it does make me wonder.

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Omono is so abominably horrible I can't even grind it in Operations because it keeps losing matches due to the team basically being down a ship at the start.

Considering most of Japanese culture originated from trying to copy China, and how close "Shimanto" is to the pinyin of "Shimantou" which can be read to translate to "fecal bun", I doubt it'll be grindable in Operations either, which means the most miserable line grind I've had since the Jinan abomination.

It's good that this game doesn't have BZ-176 tier power creep, but having every new line being absolutely horrendous garbage isn't exactly encouraging either.

Edited by Guardian54

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On 1/7/2023 at 9:33 PM, Guardian54 said:

Omono is so abominably horrible I can't even grind it in Operations because it keeps losing matches due to the team basically being down a ship at the start.

Considering most of Japanese culture originated from trying to copy China, and how close "Shimanto" is to the pinyin of "Shimantou" which can be read to translate to "fecal bun", I doubt it'll be grindable in Operations either, which means the most miserable line grind I've had since the Jinan abomination.

It's good that this game doesn't have BZ-176 tier power creep, but having every new line being absolutely horrendous garbage isn't exactly encouraging either.

The tier 8 and 9 are slightly better, but not that much. The damage is incredibly inconsistent. 

These ships aren't that good at anything and it seems their weak armor is already known in mass to players, so you end up targeted by the entire enemy team everytime your spotted. 

I'm really hoping that when the line is fully out the stats show they could use a strong buff.

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21 hours ago, Skuggsja said:

their weak armor is already known in mass to players, so you end up targeted by the entire enemy team everytime your spotted.

This is not even useful for farming potential damage in cruisers for some dockyard missions.

Because I'd drive supercruisers (Puerto Rico, Kron, etc.) for that. Not napkin boxes.

Edited by Guardian54

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On 1/12/2023 at 7:01 PM, Skuggsja said:

I'm really hoping that when the line is fully out the stats show they could use a strong buff.

So far the stats seem to show them  doing much better than anyone expected.

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On 12/26/2022 at 11:12 PM, Sabot_100 said:

Huanghe bucked that trend. Generally panned when released, it started pretty well in the stats. Now with many years and 120K games under its (very thin) belt, it is still in the top third of the rankings.

Still might be due to mostly being driven by good players that can make it work but it does make me wonder.

There's also the matter in volume of play.  The more ships get played, the likelier the stats get dragged down.

Huanghe doesn't get played much, and the ship has been around forever.  She released in 2017 yet hasn't even broken 300k games.  Her players are few in number, which makes it easy to sway those numbers.  Compare that stuff to Tech Tree Leander and Budyonny where each have seen 2.1 MILLION Random Battles on NA Server.  Dallas has 1.2 million.  I will trust Premium Graf Spee's numbers because she's seen 1.5 million Random Battles.

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Just took the Omono out again for a few games and confirmed it sucks. For a light cruiser it turns slow but still manages to out turn the turrets. Seems you are always waiting for the guns to line up and/or load. Even if I manage to do OK in the ship, it just isn't fun to play.

Myoko is (slightly) faster with a faster rudder. The 8" guns fire almost as fast and have the same turn rate. Torp angles suck but  you have 6 per side and they load much faster.

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