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Musket22

This is a SURFACE COMBAT game

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Players are always trying to correct me for saying this is a SURFACE COMBAT game because I believe we don't need CVs or SUbs.

Well @Sabot_100, said it better than I could.

Remove subs and CVs and the game still works fine.

Remove the surface combat ships and the game fails instantly.

I just wish WG would realize this.

That is all.

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World War II is called an air war.

So, I guess if we removed the planes it would have failed?

Where did the planes launch from? Land and sea.

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15 minutes ago, Rollingonit said:

You have anything to back that up?

Or just sabot

How many matches have you played where there are no subs or cvs - probably lots and the game was fine.

Now think of how many had only CVs and subs - not doable is it?

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3 minutes ago, MN1234 said:

World War II is called an air war.

So, I guess if we removed the planes it would have failed?

Where did the planes launch from? Land and sea.

Don't quote history we are talking about the game as an entity.

Remember, the game everyone says isn't a simulator?

 

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1 minute ago, Musket22 said:

Don't quote history we are talking about the game as an entity.

Remember, the game everyone says isn't a simulator?

 

Either way his argument is specious. 

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3 minutes ago, Musket22 said:

How many matches have you played where there are no subs or cvs - probably lots and the game was fine.

Now think of how many had only CVs and subs - not doable is it?

If MM could do only CVs and subs, Im sure the game would be designed to be able to do it. 

Whether or not it works and/or is likeable is debatable and hypothetical. 

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5 minutes ago, Rollingonit said:

If MM could do only CVs and subs, Im sure the game would be designed to be able to do it. 

Whether or not it works and/or is likeable is debatable and hypothetical. 

The game is 'Fun & Engaging' when there are no CVs or Subs.

When there are CVs & Subs not so much and that speaks to WG's inability to properly balance/integrate them into the game.

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3 minutes ago, Musket22 said:

The game is 'Fun & Engaging' when there are no CVs or Subs.

When there are CVs & Subs not so much and that speaks to WG's inability to properly balance/integrate them into the game.

IDK, as long as the game only has 1 CV and/or 1 Sub per team, it doesnt bother me. Game is still "fun & engaging". Ill concede personally when there are 2 per team, I dislike it. 

But I still dont think you can say with certainty that the possible scenarios you proposed would have the outcome you came to the conclusion to.

edit: plus those 2 scenerios are questionable in how they would be implemented

Edited by Rollingonit

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32 minutes ago, Musket22 said:

Players are always trying to correct me for saying this is a SURFACE COMBAT game because I believe we don't need CVs or SUbs.

Well @Sabot_100, said it better than I could.

Remove subs and CVs and the game still works fine.

Remove the surface combat ships and the game fails instantly.

I just wish WG would realize this.

That is all.

I hate subs but they are here to stay.

CVs are s SURFACE COMBAT ship. They use planes as there shell.

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42 minutes ago, Musket22 said:

Remove subs and CVs and the game still works fine.

Remove CVs and I will leave this game.

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37 minutes ago, Musket22 said:

Players are always trying to correct me for saying this is a SURFACE COMBAT game because I believe we don't need CVs or SUbs.

Well @Sabot_100, said it better than I could.

Remove subs and CVs and the game still works fine.

Remove the surface combat ships and the game fails instantly.

I just wish WG would realize this.

That is all.

That's pretty laughable considering WWII Naval Warfare brought heavy naval air power and submarines.  And this ship draws very heavily on WWII-era stuff.

 

The Battle of the Atlantic was fought due to the threat of German U-Boats wrecking cargo ships that the British so direly needed.

WWII was where the Aircraft Carrier came to the forefront for naval warfare.

The Imperial Japanese Navy and US Navy fought entire battles with each other and their ships never even saw each other.  Oh, Cruisers, Destroyers, Battleships were around, but they were with the Carriers as escorts.

 

No Carriers or Submarines in WWII naval wargames is like having a WWII Eastern Front game with no Panzers and T-34s.

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Oh, I forgot, we actually had game play solely with Submarines.

 

Operation Wolfpack.

 

And it worked just fine.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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You could remove the wild cards from a deck of UNO and the game would still work just fine.  If you remove all the other cards and just try to play with the wild cards, it will break the game.

That's not a very good argument to remove the wild cards from the game of UNO. In the same way, neither is your example.

Also, side note: I started playing this game in Beta.  CVs where there way back then too.

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48 minutes ago, Musket22 said:

Players are always trying to correct me for saying this is a SURFACE COMBAT game because I believe we don't need CVs or SUbs.

Well @Sabot_100, said it better than I could.

Remove subs and CVs and the game still works fine.

Remove the surface combat ships and the game fails instantly.

I just wish WG would realize this.

That is all.

The game's core gameplay loops are obviously surface ships, that's the meat and potatoes which the other two classes play off of. So yes, without them, there'd be no game as we see it now. It'd be a lot more limited and a lot different.

But those other two classes were always going to be added in because they're additional content from the era. There was pretty much no way to dodge this considering vehicle sales and play is what monetizes the game. WG needs every last line of content they can wring out.

Whether they have implemented them well or not is completely different though. :^)

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11 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

That's pretty laughable considering WWII Naval Warfare brought heavy naval air power and submarines.  And this ship draws very heavily on WWII-era stuff.

Not talking historical (but subs did not participate in fleet gun battles) but how the game works. IRL CVs (and subs) killed the idea of a gun battle and need for big gun ships. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Burnsy said:

You could remove the wild cards from a deck of UNO and the game would still work just fine.  If you remove all the other cards and just try to play with the wild cards, it will break the game.

That's not a very good argument to remove the wild cards from the game of UNO. In the same way, neither is your example.

Also, side note: I started playing this game in Beta.  CVs where there way back then too.

Indeed.

CxFjrWy.jpegkT7sDru.jpegCattura4.jpg

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3 minutes ago, Sabot_100 said:

Not talking historical (but subs did not participate in fleet gun battles) but how the game works. IRL CVs (and subs) killed the idea of a gun battle and need for big gun ships. 

 

Except the game has been functioning with Carriers even before launch in 2015, even in Open Beta when I joined, and before that even.

 

This is just another stupid "Remove CVs" thread.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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4 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Indeed.

CxFjrWy.jpegkT7sDru.jpegCattura4.jpg

For some reason, some players tend to think that CVs were an "add on".  A class that was tacked on to the "base" classes, later.

CVs where always in the game, even in Alpha.  They were always part of the origination design and game mechanics.

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1 minute ago, Burnsy said:

For some reason, some players tend to think that CV were an "add on".  A class that was tacked on to the "base" classes, later.

CVs where always in the game, even in Alpha.  They were always part of the origination design and game mechanics.

People cling to their dreams, even if it's clearly wrong.

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On 11/5/2022 at 7:44 PM, Musket22 said:

Players are always trying to correct me for saying this is a SURFACE COMBAT game because I believe we don't need CVs or SUbs.

Well @Sabot_100, said it better than I could.

Remove subs and CVs and the game still works fine.

Remove the surface combat ships and the game fails instantly.

I just wish WG would realize this.

That is all.

:cap_popcorn:Actually, No. remove CVs and DDs become undefeatable; that topics been beaten to death. Remove subs, the game becomes a camp fest because Radarphobia and DDs obsessing for dreadnaught medals. Subs lift a giant burden off the backs of DDs, and opens a whole new avenue of game development other than +100kt Torpedoes and citadel homing projectiles. 

Therefore, as a surface only museum, WoWs looses it's believability and dies, or with it's inclusive model evolves and lives. I'll stick with the later: thank you... :cap_like:

 

Edited by Crokodone
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7 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Except the game has been functioning with Carriers even before launch in 2015, even in Open Beta when I joined, and before that even.

 

This is just another stupid "Remove CVs" thread.

So a member of the sub faction calling some one opposed 'stupid'.

As he's pushing the WG agenda there is propably no chance of him getting 'reprimanded' with a warning.

Ever consider that what I'd (won't speak for all) like to see is some walk back of the utterly gross over statements of CV air group and sub abilities? 

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Carriers have been part of the game for so long, that this ship once existed in WoWS in the IJN CV Tech Tree.

y96QsXP.jpg

 

ALPHA

  It says ALPHA in the bottom left.

post-1002239667-0-98345700-1428756885.jppbGTWBK.jpg.5064293a680315c1d7f077d41139

 

I started playing in Open Beta, and Shinano wasn't even in the game anymore.  The IJN CV Line got altered, but they were there even in Alpha.

 

This game has been working with Carriers in the game since Alpha.

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4 minutes ago, Musket22 said:

So a member of the sub faction calling some one opposed 'stupid'.

As he's pushing the WG agenda there is propably no chance of him getting 'reprimanded' with a warning.

Ever consider that what I'd (won't speak for all) like to see is some walk back of the utterly gross over statements of CV air group and sub abilities? 

I'm a Cruiser Main :Smile_popcorn: 9.8k Random Battles.

gbVBku4.jpeg
 

The game has functioned with Carriers in it since Alpha.

 

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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