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Rocketdog2300

Are Bots reading our keystrokes?

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In the upload (Co-Op) as i'm coming around the small island to set up up the DD, i immediately go into full reverse to not give the DD a clean shot at sending torps my way.

But it's like the Bot knew the second i went into reverse, including the second round of torps that appeared and would have both struck if i stayed in full reverse.

The torps appeared to be well on their way as i slowed and went into full reverse.

Is it possible the game/bots are able to see our keystrokes?

 

20220918_212758_PGSB507-Scharnhorst_25_sea_hope.wowsreplay

Edited by Rocketdog2300

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It's possible. 

The bots in coop are still realllly bad though, even after their supposed upgrade. Didnt watch replay, so dont know if that's coop or scenerios. 

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The bots have always “cheated.” This type of clairvoyance is nothing new. It’s similar to how bots always know when you launch torpedoes and begin evasive maneuvers before they could have spotted them.

The bots also used to have near-perfect accuracy. They still do in a sense, but WG seems to have them programmed to now whiff the first few salvos. After they “dial in” their aim though, it’s damn near perfect.

 

Edited by Nevermore135
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Yes, and they are also out to get you, you personally. Watch what you type because the bots are listening! :cap_haloween:

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2 hours ago, Nevermore135 said:

The bots have always “cheated.” This type of clairvoyance is nothing new. It’s similar to how bots always now when you launch torpedoes and begin evasive maneuvers before they could have spotted them.

The bots also used to have near-perfect accuracy. They still do in a sense, but WG seems to have them programmed to now whiff the first few salvos. After they “dial in” their aim though, it’s damn near perfect.

Bot ASW planes are instant, and laser accurate.

Despite evading, I can't remember a single instance were bot ASW planes didn't hit.

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2 hours ago, Rocketdog2300 said:

In the upload (Co-Op) as i'm coming around the small island to set up up the DD, i immediately go into full reverse to not give the DD a clean shot at sending torps my way.

But it's like the Bot knew the second i went into reverse, including the second round of torps that appeared and would have both struck if i stayed in full reverse.

The torps appeared to be well on their way as i slowed and went into full reverse.

Is it possible the game/bots are able to see our keystrokes?

 

20220918_212758_PGSB507-Scharnhorst_25_sea_hope.wowsreplay

I didn't watch your replay because it happened to me more than once so I believe you. 

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I wouldn't be surprised since the AI has to have some sort of aspect to predict how the opposing player acts just like any other human player would and the easiest way imo to do that is to have some of the player input taken into account for the bot's behaviour. But that's just my best guess.

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10 hours ago, Rocketdog2300 said:

Is it possible the game/bots are able to see our keystrokes?

Of course. It’s how you interact with the game. Your ship would never move if the game couldn’t see your keystrokes. 

Now, if you’re asking if the bots take into account what your ship is doing before a human player could have possibly had that information in the same situation, my answer is “almost certainly”. 

In Operations, where bot behavior has traditionally been quite predictable, I’ve watched bots respond immediately to a torpedo launch they could not have seen.  

The game doesn’t have to make any guesses about aiming, dodging and such. It is literally the final arbiter in such matters. What the developers have to do is balance how much of that information to use in the bots’ decision making. Remember, the bots are awful at this game. To counter that the devs give them little advantages to offset that so the bots are a challenge for the players. Too little and the bots are too weak. Too much and the bots are landing citadels with every shot even when they haven’t spotted you yet. 

My suggestion is to just roll with it. Fog of War is a big part of this game, so just assume that the bots see more of the map than you do. 

Edited by FineousFingers
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Bots appear to tell when you switch from HE to AP by changed how they turn when why you switch ammo. It is frustrating but for the most part bots are dumb and easy to kill. 

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I don't think the bots are designed to monitor keystrokes.  It's more to do with the fact that the bots exist on the servers and therefore have the same information that you send when you execute a command.  That's why they know when torps are coming.  The workaround for that was to deselect the bot as a target right before you fire.

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43 minutes ago, Amenhir said:

 The workaround for that was to deselect the bot as a target right before you fire.

For newbies reading this thread... this does work... I use it all the time when using torps on bots.

I haven't played co-op much lately so I can't say if the AI has been buffed but the bots in operations sure have been... it's been nice to have to work to get a win in operations.

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Making a torpedo attack on a 'Bot?
1.  Get into "point blank" range.
2.  Don't miss.

Alternatively, target a 'bot ship that is sailing in a predicable course.
Launch torpedoes and forget about them while you target another 'bot ship.
Smile if your torpedoes hit the intended target.  :-)

Edited to add:
Enclosed are some crude illustrations for educational purposes.
 

Spoiler


633835256_JoustingPassofaDestroyercrudelyillustratedbyWolfswetpaws_08-02-2022_.thumb.jpg.d640979062a13a89e626d762a4406ba5.jpg

1835674956_Torpedolaunchingarcfiringpositionillustrationofconcept_03-13-2022_.thumb.jpg.4e9549635e3a4a36af1e55a25fd63c72.jpg

637825086_HairpinTurnCruisertorpedolaunchdrawing_12-06-2020_.thumb.jpg.a308ac0d0e25c110be849af10a4f4f62.jpg

1834323170_TorpedoattackrunforBattleshipIseandhertorpedoplanescrudelyillustrated_01-06-2022_.thumb.jpg.1ece8650d71a9019cbd7519883ccf2fa.jpg

 

 

Edited by Wolfswetpaws

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4 minutes ago, CrazyHorse_Denver said:
56 minutes ago, Amenhir said:

The workaround for that was to deselect the bot as a target right before you fire.

For newbies reading this thread... this does work... I use it all the time when using torps on bots.

I've been a DD main in co-op, so I have a crap ton of experience with torps on bots.  I've tested this like crazy.  I can tell you it doesn't actually work.   

Bots appear to dodge torps as soon as you fire them but that's not what is happening.  The bots are programed to always go bow on to the closest ship, or sometimes it will the ship they've targeted.  This means the the bots will continuously turn to keep going bow on, this makes it look like they are trying to dodge torps.

 

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Bots don’t necessarily have to read keystrokes:

Bots pretty much have to be programmed to read angles between ships to generate normal firing solutions.

I’m sure its possible to program a bot to “read your funnel smoke” and do it better than most human eyesight. With those two things, and lookup tables for every ship’s acceleration, a bot could pretty easily know if you’re full reverse or any other throttle setting and can out-predict our “white cone/gray cone” torpedo launch helper.

 

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1 hour ago, Slimeball91 said:

I've been a DD main in co-op, so I have a crap ton of experience with torps on bots.  I've tested this like crazy.  I can tell you it doesn't actually work.   

Bots appear to dodge torps as soon as you fire them but that's not what is happening.  The bots are programed to always go bow on to the closest ship, or sometimes it will the ship they've targeted.  This means the the bots will continuously turn to keep going bow on, this makes it look like they are trying to dodge torps.

 

It seems like they can have an offensive and defensive focus that can be separate (shooting at someone else while angling against you).  If they do both, they can annoy/kill you while preventing damage.  If they do neither, then you get a free pass.  I had a match where they got locked up and were shooting/angling against ships in front of them when I came abound a corner in the Hampshire.  I might as well have not existed and just farmed.

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14 hours ago, Nevermore135 said:

The bots have always “cheated.” This type of clairvoyance is nothing new. It’s similar to how bots always know when you launch torpedoes and begin evasive maneuvers before they could have spotted them.

The bots also used to have near-perfect accuracy. They still do in a sense, but WG seems to have them programmed to now whiff the first few salvos. After they “dial in” their aim though, it’s damn near perfect.

 

Exactly, i was about to post this very subject when i read this, i felt like i was the only person who thought this, thank you:Smile_medal:

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Torpedo indicator already does this.

 

There is Mods that will also give away if enemy ship is

1: Stopped

2: moving Foward

3: moving backwards

4: Full Speed Forward

5: Full reverse.

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16 hours ago, Rocketdog2300 said:

Is it possible the game/bots are able to see our keystrokes?

Co-op bots have some special "tricks" up their sleeve:

- bots know where you are; evidence: CV never 'search' for enemies, bot ships chase a player over the entire map even without spotting them

- bots know which ammo type you load; evidence: as long as you use HE they are willing to show broadside, as soon as you start to load AP they angle

- bots fire torpedoes just before they die; evidence: replay evaluation; some players feel that bots fire them after they have died but reality is they know when they will die and release torps just a server tick or so before

- bots can train their turrets independently of each other; evidence: observation during live action as well as replays; forward turrets aim at another target than aft turrets; players complain about each thing but this one I haven't seen anyone complain about, I wonder why

Your complaint falls into the "they always know where you are category". My advice: embrace the small challenge 'cause the bots are already so ridiculously easy to kill that any further nerf is an insult.

 

Edited by Lazy_Joe
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6 hours ago, Mykawa said:

Bots appear to tell when you switch from HE to AP by changed how they turn when why you switch ammo. It is frustrating but for the most part bots are dumb and easy to kill. 

This^^^

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18 hours ago, Rocketdog2300 said:

In the upload (Co-Op) as i'm coming around the small island to set up up the DD, i immediately go into full reverse to not give the DD a clean shot at sending torps my way.

But it's like the Bot knew the second i went into reverse, including the second round of torps that appeared and would have both struck if i stayed in full reverse.

The torps appeared to be well on their way as i slowed and went into full reverse.

Is it possible the game/bots are able to see our keystrokes?

 

20220918_212758_PGSB507-Scharnhorst_25_sea_hope.wowsreplay

That's not really the case.

The Z-31 bot was almost dead, so it launched torps as the last attempt to bring you down before it died, and usually the torps would be launched based on your speed and direction at the very moment, which is why you only ate 2 out of 4 torps in the first wave and 1 out of 4 torps in the second wave.

You did the right thing by constantly changing your speed and direction for that matter. I think you could have completely avoided those torps if you were in a CA/CL or a DD with better maneuverability.

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2 hours ago, Lazy_Joe said:

Co-op bots have some special "tricks" up their sleeve:

- bots fire torpedoes just before they die; evidence: replay evaluation; some players feel that bots fire them after they have died but reality is they know when they will die and release torps just a server tick or so before

Oh boy, do they ever.

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4 hours ago, Lazy_Joe said:

Co-op bots have some special "tricks" up their sleeve:

- bots can train their turrets independently of each other; evidence: observation during live action as well as replays; forward turrets aim at another target than aft turrets; players complain about each thing but this one I haven't seen anyone complain about, I wonder why

 

 

I have seen this and thought how's that happening.

I believe I've also witnessed two different aim points fired in Random.

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4 hours ago, Spyde said:

Torpedo indicator already does this.

 

There is Mods that will also give away if enemy ship is

1: Stopped

2: moving Foward

3: moving backwards

4: Full Speed Forward

5: Full reverse.

I tend to observe the smoke or the ship's  effect on the water, because I don't have "mods" installed.

1827731952_Smoketrailshelpdetermineshipspeedanddirection_09-05-2022_.thumb.jpg.7aa9feae2c48a03c6d5ad75b9d403bec.jpg

 

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