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YouSatInGum

Typical Heavy Handed WG approach...

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So WG sees a lot folks are going to take issue with the Random operations approach.... but they know this in advance so they tell us "But you WILL still be able to division and pick your own....."    But in typical WG fashion they leave out some very important details until literally the day before:

image.thumb.png.d3bdbcfc2548cfb135e9ea168b914fa7.png

The only question now is do we earn 25% more than current for doing the random method, or is it a 25% nerf over what we have now?

I would ask Ahskance but we'll probably know tomorrow by the time he gets back to us will anything meaningful.... however, which option would the history WG tell us is much more likely?

 

I'll just say.... the nerfings will continue until moral improves....

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2 minutes ago, YouSatInGum said:

The only question now is do we earn 25% more than current for doing the random method, or is it a 25% nerf over what we have now?

The language certainly suggests the former, but the fact that the shake up of the opposition and the randomness that introduces as part of the tier-balancing process will make any kind of comparison to earlier values (even those from the PTS) difficult.

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1 minute ago, Nevermore135 said:

The language certainly suggests the former, but the fact that the shake up of the opposition and the randomness that introduces as part of the tier-balancing process will make any kind of comparison to earlier values (even those from the PTS) difficult.

I certainly hope you are right.... but if this was testing PTS then that is certainly NOT the case since the earnings on PTS from the random Ops was on the low side....

 

But really....this is WG.... when was the last time earnings were raised in ANY mode?

About the only time I can think of was the last iteration of the Convoy mode because the earnings of the first Convoy mode try were so small as to affect participation....

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It seems WG really wants people to go the random op route, and by providing a plus over teamed ops they expect (hope?) people will play and like them.

I'm not sure that is going to work.

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Maybe, they are trying to discourage the few whom will play the new scenarios endlessly till they figure out the exploits.....   Remember, some of us haven't been around for 7 years....  This concept was being discussed Friday night !  Play say, Cherry Blossom several nights as a clan pure team till those of us whom have played the old scenarios can help the new players to "learn what are the key points" to shorten the learning curves....  I suspect, it will take till Christmas for the new players to experience what is important in each of the active Scenarios because of the expanded tiers......

I'm pretty sure our host thought of this ^^^^^ and IF, there is a cost to do this, they are insuring there is a "cost" to do so..........

 

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On 9/6/2022 at 9:18 AM, YouSatInGum said:

The only question now is do we earn 25% more than current for doing the random method, or is it a 25% nerf over what we have now?

It is a 25% bonus over Selected operations to help inspire use of the random method.

Update: More complete information here: https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/259184-psa-update-on-operations-rewards/

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4 minutes ago, Ahskance said:

It is a 25% bonus over current baseline to help inspire use of the random method.

Good news!

However, I will be checking.  I have a comparison method that should be pretty accurate.

Sorry for being skeptical.... but one thing I learned way back when I managed people is that you have to check progress at times.

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It honestly doesn't surprise me, as the whole randomness feels like an underhanded blow to those who play Operations to grind out FXP and CXP.

WG knows most people aren't going to div up, and are less likely to use good boosts when you run the risk of getting Newport.

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In all honesty, I get it. If they allow well coordinated groups to play operations and haul in rewards it's just feeding back into the reason for past nerfs to scenario earnings. Then they would need income and everyone will complain, yet again. 

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21 minutes ago, Kapitan_Wuff said:

It seems very clearly stated to me.

The OP’s inquiry was completely reasonable. The only thing clear from the language in the article is how the earnings for random ops vs. selected ops will relate to each other in 0.11.8. Both reducing rewards from selected ops or increasing rewards from random ops are consistent with the statement as worded. If the wording was something along the line of “rewards for random ops have been increased 25%,” then the change would have been “very clearly stated” in regards to the OP’s concern.

Askance’s response cleared up the OP’s specific concern by clarifying that it is the latter. Now all that remains is to trust but verify, which is a completely healthy attitude to have.

Edited by Nevermore135
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16 minutes ago, Beleaf_ said:

as the whole randomness feels like an underhanded blow to those who play Operations to grind out FXP and CXP.

I suspect WG takes (and always has taken) a dim view of those who use operations solely as an XP farm, from a philosophical rather than an economic perspective.

18 minutes ago, Beleaf_ said:

and are less likely to use good boosts when you run the risk of getting Newport.

Newport is the fly in the ointment that everyone loves to hate on, but the more tier-open nature of the new operations system just let a few elephants into the room. You might want to pay those some attention and select your ships accordingly.

I'm waiting to see what happens in 0.11.10, when they've had a month to digest the results of 0.11.8 (Halloween ops will dominate 11.9, with regular ops being division-only) and announce how things will be moving forward.

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29 minutes ago, Beleaf_ said:

It honestly doesn't surprise me, as the whole randomness feels like an underhanded blow to those who play Operations to grind out FXP and CXP.

WG knows most people aren't going to div up, and are less likely to use good boosts when you run the risk of getting Newport.

They understandably don't want you doing that, at least not to the degree of being able to tailor the parameters such that you take a optimal ship, perfectly configured, to dance a predetermined minuet with scripted bots in order to shake the money tree. 

They want the core of the game with the best player economy to be PvP. 

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33 minutes ago, DrHolmes52 said:

It seems WG really wants people to go the random op route, and by providing a plus over teamed ops they expect (hope?) people will play and like them.

I'm not sure that is going to work.

For me it's gonna work alright, I like the Random queue already, having extra earnings is like the cherry on top. 

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8 minutes ago, Pugilistic said:

They understandably don't want you doing that, at least not to the degree of being able to tailor the parameters such that you take a optimal ship, perfectly configured, to dance a predetermined minuet with scripted bots in order to shake the money tree. 

They want the core of the game with the best player economy to be PvP. 

This is the why.  WG has been remarkably consistent on this.

WG gets the most bang for their buck on PVP.

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1 hour ago, Beleaf_ said:

WG knows most people aren't going to div up, and are less likely to use good boosts when you run the risk of getting Newport.

Bringing T8s into Newport makes that op easier actually. Secondary BBs get longer range and more secondaries, cruisers get buffs to range and/or DPM, and DDs the same. Then there’s things like Mainz, Bayard, and T8 CVs that just hump an island and dumpster everything.

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Looks out from the OpsDeck of Tirpitz and looks over at Bismark...Yells at Deshefer to fire up the boilers ....were going hunting boys . :Smile_izmena:

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2 hours ago, YouSatInGum said:

So WG sees a lot folks are going to take issue with the Random operations approach.... but they know this in advance so they tell us "But you WILL still be able to division and pick your own....."    But in typical WG fashion they leave out some very important details until literally the day before:

image.thumb.png.d3bdbcfc2548cfb135e9ea168b914fa7.png

The only question now is do we earn 25% more than current for doing the random method, or is it a 25% nerf over what we have now?

I would ask Ahskance but we'll probably know tomorrow by the time he gets back to us will anything meaningful.... however, which option would the history WG tell us is much more likely?

 

I'll just say.... the nerfings will continue until moral improves....

Oh interesting. I do not pay much attention to ops. So do I understand that you can just click on an ops battle button that will send me to a random op?

 

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2 hours ago, YouSatInGum said:

a 25% nerf over what we have now?

This will be, at least, a 25% nerf over what we have now. 

Regardless of how many times Wargaming tries to sell this change as an "improvement" to operations, we all know what it really it:

This is a straight NERF to Narai, and those who farm Narai for high levels of of Exp, CXP and FXP. 

Wargaming has repeatedly nerfed operations and Narai in particular, and they are doing it again. 

Nothing more, nothing less. 

I realize what Askance said, I don't believe it. 

Wait and see, when the new operations come out, the earning for individuals playing random operations will be about the same as they were before the change. If EXP is the same as before for individuals playing random operations, that will mean that the earnings for groups with be 25% less than they were before. 

Remember the last of MANY nerfs to operations, when Wargaming nerfed the exp gain for less than a full group. This will end up being the same. 

 

Edited by Litigo_1970
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8 minutes ago, paradat said:

So do I understand that you can just click on an ops battle button that will send me to a random op?

 

Yes,.

4 minutes ago, Litigo_1970 said:

It is, at least, a 25% nerf over what we have now. 

No, you have expressly been told above that it's a 25% buff for anyone who takes the random chance, viz.

2 hours ago, Ahskance said:

It is a 25% bonus over current baseline to help inspire use of the random method.

 

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3 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

No, you have expressly been told above that it's a 25% buff for anyone who takes the random chance, viz.

Yes, and I don't believe it. 

We were also expressly told that the Captain skills rework was about bringing greater diversity to Captain builds, and had nothing to do with removing excess stored free Captain experience. 

I suppose you believed that one too?

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5 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

No, you have expressly been told above that it's a 25% buff for anyone who takes the random chance

Which can also be validly interpreted as a econ nerf to tailored divisions that choose their Op.  THe Random ops groups are getting an incentive that is expressly withheld from the divs.

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