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SteelClaw

Good video on stats

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See the source image

Having shared that ^

Yeah great video. 

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Over 100 views and very few responses... I thought it was well done and a bunch of players should take the time to watch the WHOLE vid. 

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15 hours ago, SeaQuest_ said:

Over 100 views and very few responses...

I find this troubling. Makes me wonder how many of the player base even care about winning anymore. 

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4 hours ago, SteelClaw said:

I find this troubling. Makes me wonder how many of the player base even care about winning anymore. 

He has 218 subscribers, Jingles has 651,000 subscribers. 

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7 minutes ago, TheArc said:

He has 218 subscribers, Jingles has 651,000 subscribers. 

Well, even Jingles calls lower win rate players potatoes... 

Edited by USMC2145

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20 hours ago, SeaQuest_ said:

Over 100 views and very few responses... I thought it was well done and a bunch of players should take the time to watch the WHOLE vid. 

 

4 hours ago, SteelClaw said:

I find this troubling. Makes me wonder how many of the player base even care about winning anymore. 

I'm not sure what your expecting for responses. The video(which is well done in my opinion) is about self reflecting. The people, who GameProdigy hopes gleam info from it, aren't going to announce it to the world.

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14 minutes ago, USMC2145 said:

Well, even Jingles calls lower win rate players potatoes... 

My point was simply to explain why the video posted had so few likes and comments. The guy has a lot of great points, but he's got a VERY small viewership relative to some of the other content creators.

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Just now, TheArc said:

My point was simply to explain why the video posted had so few likes and comments. The guy has a lot of great points, but he's got a VERY small viewership relative to some of the other content creators.

Understood and you bring up a good point. 

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2 hours ago, TheArc said:

My point was simply to explain why the video posted had so few likes and comments. The guy has a lot of great points, but he's got a VERY small viewership relative to some of the other content creators.

Well, kind of like the point he made in the video, you have to start somewhere. Own it, figure out what you need to do to improve, and work at it.

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30 minutes ago, SeaGladius said:

Well, kind of like the point he made in the video, you have to start somewhere. Own it, figure out what you need to do to improve, and work at it.

Yup!

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The "skew" to low win rates is because those unicum players (10,000 games at 60% WR) are offset by a LOT of not-unicum players (say 10 players with 1,000 games at 40% WR). If you average these players you will get a WR just under 42%

Math isn't really hard, but you need to recognize that the "average" is around 46%ish... because the high percent player likely has a lot of games while the lower WR players have less games 

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I'm outside the box. My medications do have side effects that affect my ability to perform. One of the side effects is tremors. I was unknowingly moving the mouse while shooting. My son was over to help me improve, we play together as often as his life allows. He noticed I would have tremors in my hand when I was shooting. I had to adjust my armrest to reduce this effect. You also don't realize how much painkillers affect your ability to function. I also have bad sight in one eye. I now have a huge load of losses I must overcome to improve my win rate.

I'm not looking for sympathy, only relating some of my issues most don't have. I said "most" players don't have these issues but they may have one or two or other health-related issues. However, there are others worse off than I.

I would think the majority of the toxicity over win rate comes mainly from those in the 48% to 52% bracket. They are struggling hard to reach or stay at 50% or better. They want to be teamed with the top players, not potatoes. Most of the hostility from the form those with less than a 45% win rate directed at players with higher win rates than theirs is in retaliation.

It is common to lump players together and then label them with derogatory and insulting names such as "potato". Yes, whether or not you are offended by poatao it is still an insult.

When you receive PMs telling you you are bad for the game and should uninstall the game because of your win rate by someone who is looking to blame someone because he/she died earlier in the loss than you did, it does get annoying.

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2 hours ago, SureBridge said:

The "skew" to low win rates is because those unicum players (10,000 games at 60% WR) are offset by a LOT of not-unicum players (say 10 players with 1,000 games at 40% WR). If you average these players you will get a WR just under 42%

Math isn't really hard, but you need to recognize that the "average" is around 46%ish... because the high percent player likely has a lot of games while the lower WR players have less games 

I see, that explains this:

image.thumb.png.53c404c6d08a72606ac7307bdf979f2b.png

I was a little disturbed when I saw that 42% before lol.

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21 hours ago, SureBridge said:

The "skew" to low win rates is because those unicum players (10,000 games at 60% WR) are offset by a LOT of not-unicum players (say 10 players with 1,000 games at 40% WR). If you average these players you will get a WR just under 42%

Math isn't really hard, but you need to recognize that the "average" is around 46%ish... because the high percent player likely has a lot of games while the lower WR players have less games 

To be honest there are a lot of players with 10k+ of games played in the lows 40% win rate area also. 

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1 hour ago, USMC2145 said:

To be honest there are a lot of players with 10k+ of games played in the lows 40% win rate area also. 

I think the reason for that can vary a lot from player to player but I suspect for a lot of people they have spent a lot of time in COOP and eventually started dabbling in randoms.... or they play both modes, so they game count looks high but actual random experience might be on the low side.

Of course to improve you have to be willing to learn something from other players... everybody has seen those players who just absolutely will not take advice no matter how good it is.

....and then there are players who might be bad for some reason they can't really help... physical or mental impairment.... or maybe they play on a terrible PC.  It's hard to be good with 20 fps.

I think the GP's video is good but also somewhat general in nature.  He skipped over the effect of divisions on WR, which I think is a big enough thing that it should be talked about.  Playing primarily in divisions (assume decent teammates) can improve your WR 5% over more which is a huge amount.  In fact, I've been noticing trends, that are leading me to believe that if you play solo high tier during primetime hours (especially on weekends) then you are actually at a slight disadvantage since you are slightly more likely to be on the non or fewer divisioned team.

Of all the things he mentioned, I think mini map awareness is the easiest and best way for a player to improve, since that is also one of the best ways to improve your survival rate. 

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1 hour ago, YouSatInGum said:

I think the reason for that can vary a lot from player to player but I suspect for a lot of people they have spent a lot of time in COOP and eventually started dabbling in randoms.... or they play both modes, so they game count looks high but actual random experience might be on the low side.

Absolutely. I have (on paper) a 46% win rate in randoms and (looking at my sig) over 8k battles. If you look at my actual stats, show 257 battles in randoms and an average tier of 6 and a wee bit. I had *major* struggles switching to Randoms (after piddling around at T2-3, which still dominates my "most used" ships) 

I was in all honesty *terrible* at PvP in higher tiers, and I still have bad days.

But I also play a lot of CB's and brawls, and I generally win >50% even at T10 and * tiers. I probably *should* do more Randoms, but there is a limited number of hours that I can devote to a game and these days when I'm in a Random it's generally in a test ship (which don't show up on your random aggregate scores)

I'm probably now over 1,000 PvP games, and recognize that there are things that I need to work on. It's a bit funny hearing div mates cuss out "RNG". It's also  empowering to realize that when I miss, *generally* it's because I did something wrong (or my opponent did something right). This means that there is something that I can do to get better. I'll probably start a thread on "Surebridge tries to git gud" as a semi-experienced player in the same what that @Konception has outlined his new player journey here:

https://forum.worldofwarships.com/forum/377-new-player-captains-log/

There are a lot of folks who (if you ask them) will tell you what you did well (and badly) because it's different for everyone. 

So we will always have a "mix" of experienced players who have worked hard, some players with a bazillion games who are going to play the way they are comfortable (win rate be damned) and a bunch of new players who may or may not be absolutely terrible. How do we help the newer players have enough fun to stick around and have fun? 

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1 hour ago, YouSatInGum said:

I think the reason for that can vary a lot from player to player but I suspect for a lot of people they have spent a lot of time in COOP and eventually started dabbling in randoms.... or they play both modes, so they game count looks high but actual random experience might be on the low side.

Of course to improve you have to be willing to learn something from other players... everybody has seen those players who just absolutely will not take advice no matter how good it is.

....and then there are players who might be bad for some reason they can't really help... physical or mental impairment.... or maybe they play on a terrible PC.  It's hard to be good with 20 fps.

I think the GP's video is good but also somewhat general in nature.  He skipped over the effect of divisions on WR, which I think is a big enough thing that it should be talked about.  Playing primarily in divisions (assume decent teammates) can improve your WR 5% over more which is a huge amount.  In fact, I've been noticing trends, that are leading me to believe that if you play solo high tier during primetime hours (especially on weekends) then you are actually at a slight disadvantage since you are slightly more likely to be on the non or fewer divisioned team.

Of all the things he mentioned, I think mini map awareness is the easiest and best way for a player to improve, since that is also one of the best ways to improve your survival rate. 

 

There are plenty of people with atrocious numbers with 10k+ games in Randoms. And their game-play does NOT suggest it is because of physical or a bad PC, when you encounter them in your Randoms game. 

I think GP - somewhat in passing and easy to miss - actually stated that he was looking at solo-play early in the video. I agree with your point about the effect of divisions.

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1 hour ago, YouSatInGum said:

Of course to improve you have to be willing to learn something from other players... everybody has seen those players who just absolutely will not take advice no matter how good it is.

While I agree with your comment, it was "never believe what you hear & only half of what you see." Today it is "never believe what you see/hear on the internet." The is an online game. Also, not all free advice is good advice.

Some give advice in a way that would make Gunny Hartman look like a kindergarten teacher. Right after being verbally abused in chat because someone is blaming you (even though they dies 5 minutes before you) for the loss is not a good time to offer advice.

My point is you may give the best advice but you have obstacles to overcome before you can instruct others on playing the game. I said "you, but this applies to all wishing to give advice.

 

Edited by kgh52

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48 minutes ago, kgh52 said:

While I agree with your comment, it was "never believe what you hear & only half of what you see." Today it is "never believe what you see/hear on the internet." The is an online game. Also, not all free advice is good advice.

Some give advice in a way that would make Gunny Hartman look like a kindergarten teacher. Right after being verbally abused in chat because someone is blaming you (even though they dies 5 minutes before you) for the loss is not a good time to offer advice.

My point is you may give the best advice but you have obstacles to overcome before you can instruct others on playing the game. I said "you, but this applies to all wishing to give advice.

 

All good points.... taking advice from a complete stranger can be suspect but what I'm thinking of is advice that makes a lot of sense and is somewhat explained why and they still won't do it.

A good example is a DD backing into a cap when it's not known what is there (like the start of most games).  I find it amazing that you see this tactic used so little, and I try to explain it DDs that I know

are low xp players.... about 1 in 10 might get it.

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On 9/2/2022 at 5:54 PM, kgh52 said:

While I agree with your comment, it was "never believe what you hear & only half of what you see." Today it is "never believe what you see/hear on the internet." The is an online game. Also, not all free advice is good advice.

Some give advice in a way that would make Gunny Hartman look like a kindergarten teacher. Right after being verbally abused in chat because someone is blaming you (even though they dies 5 minutes before you) for the loss is not a good time to offer advice.

My point is you may give the best advice but you have obstacles to overcome before you can instruct others on playing the game. I said "you, but this applies to all wishing to give advice.

 

I’m a higher WR player, and I enjoy playing in division with friends, several of whom are high 50s to low 60s, which helps.  I have been in high level clans, and have gotten to know a lot of unicum players, and I can say this with great certainty: it’s exceedingly rare for exceptional players to berate or embarrass a struggling player in game....until one of them voices an opinion on how poorly the unicum player is. At that point, all bets are off. 

There are people in this world that do not possess a shred of self awareness. 46% players who need to announce “our DDs are useless “ when their PR in DD play is 740 are among those people. When they say such things and all the DD players (or BB etc) are high WR players, well that’s when stats get brought up. Sometimes the Gunny Hartman comes out. Sometimes worse when on a losing streak. 

I should note that I am extremely critical of CV players. 

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On 9/3/2022 at 12:40 AM, HarmonieuxKingOfTheJaJas said:

I’m a higher WR player, and I enjoy playing in division with friends, several of whom are high 50s to low 60s, which helps.  I have been in high level clans, and have gotten to know a lot of unicum players, and I can say this with great certainty: it’s exceedingly rare for exceptional players to berate or embarrass a struggling player in game....until one of them voices an opinion on how poorly the unicum player is. At that point, all bets are off. 

There are people in this world that do not possess a shred of self awareness. 46% players who need to announce “our DDs are useless “ when their PR in DD play is 740 are among those people. When they say such things and all the DD players (or BB etc) are high WR players, well that’s when stats get brought up. Sometimes the Gunny Hartman comes out. Sometimes worse when on a losing streak. 

I should note that I am extremely critical of CV players.

Calm down, I didn't accuse any specific group of players of wrongdoing. I have been the victim of verbal abuse in chat. I did not check the toxic player's stats before I reported them. I'm not easy to upset and I do ignore a lot but when they cross the line I report them, again, without checking their stats.

 

 

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On 9/3/2022 at 1:23 AM, kgh52 said:

Calm down, I didn't accuse any specific group of players of wrongdoing. I have been the victim of verbal abuse in chat. I did not check the toxic player's stats before I reported them. I'm not easy to upset and I do ignore a lot but when they cross the line I report them, again, without checking their stats.

 

 

Sorry if it seemed I was not calm. I took no offense; just offering a different perspective.

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