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Royeaux

Akizuki vs Kitakaze

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I still have a unused bonus IX package I could mount on the Kitakaze, a DD I once thought to be one of the best.  But with tier IX ships constantly being punished with XI matches, I have to wonder if the Akizuki is now the better DD since it might mercifully get to fight tier VI ships.  Thoughts?

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Still a solid ship.  Now you can punish Tier 10.5 ships with one.

Edited by desmo_2

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Nonsensical question seeing as you can't mount that bonus package on the tier 8.

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13 minutes ago, _GreyBeard_ said:

Nonsensical question seeing as you can't mount that bonus package on the tier 8.

Bingo

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1 hour ago, _GreyBeard_ said:

Nonsensical question seeing as you can't mount that bonus package on the tier 8.

55 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

Bingo

Unlike Fletcher and Tashkent and their respective lines; nothing about Kitakaze has ever made me want to play it over Akizuki or Harugumo.

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1 hour ago, _GreyBeard_ said:

Nonsensical question seeing as you can't mount that bonus package on the tier 8.

I think the question he's really asking is, "Should I mount it on the Kita or on something else?" So long as he's afflicted with an irrational fear of facing superships, he's not going to make a clear decision. 

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1 hour ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Unlike Fletcher and Tashkent and their respective lines; nothing about Kitakaze has ever made me want to play it over Akizuki or Harugumo.

I know right?  Who'd want an Akizuki with more torpedoes, more speed, higher rate of fire, more health, higher fire resistance at no cost to agility?  /s

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2 hours ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

nothing about Kitakaze has ever made me want to play it over Akizuki or Harugumo.

Honestly I've come to realize I don't like the line, they are too fat for my taste... for some reason they trick me into thinking I can do stuff I shouldn't be doing, also I tend to take an inordinate amount or torpedo hits when playing them (compared to other DDs)... that makes me go malding.  

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Superships aren’t really that threatening to a Kitakaze. If anything, the bigger, dumber BBs means more HP to farm.

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43 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

Honestly I've come to realize I don't like the line, they are too fat for my taste... for some reason they trick me into thinking I can do stuff I shouldn't be doing, also I tend to take an inordinate amount or torpedo hits when playing them (compared to other DDs)... that makes me go malding.  

They are in many ways the OG IJN light cruiser line. One of the reasons Kitakaze has traditionally been so favored over Akizuki and Harugumo is that she had all that firepower while being better able to do traditional DD things than either. I haven’t played Kitakaze much since the nerfs, though, so I can’t really comment on her current state.

Edited by Nevermore135

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5 hours ago, Sventex said:

I still have a unused bonus IX package I could mount on the Kitakaze, a DD I once thought to be one of the best.  But with tier IX ships constantly being punished with XI matches, I have to wonder if the Akizuki is now the better DD since it might mercifully get to fight tier VI ships.  Thoughts?

Kitakaze is still a damn fine ship, so long as you're not me, by which I mean "you actually know how to play her."
 

44 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

Honestly I've come to realize I don't like the line, they are too fat for my taste... for some reason they trick me into thinking I can do stuff I shouldn't be doing, also I tend to take an inordinate amount or torpedo hits when playing them (compared to other DDs)... that makes me go malding.  

Akizuki and Harugumo have a harder time dodging torps. Kitakaze is the best of the trio for torp dodging. Harugumo is a better torp dodger than Akizuki.

As for doing things you shouldn;t... Treat the 3 of them as a trio of Cruisers, disguised as DDs. Those three ships are the reason my cruiser game improved...

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4 hours ago, _GreyBeard_ said:

Nonsensical question seeing as you can't mount that bonus package on the tier 8.

4 hours ago, ArIskandir said:

Bingo

The collection series that gave me the XI bonus package gave me a VIII bonus package too.  So now that the question is no longer nonsensical, can you answer the question?

 

Edited by Sventex
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2 minutes ago, Nevermore135 said:

They are in many ways the OG IJN light cruiser line. One of the reasons Kitakaze has traditionally been so favored over Akizuki and Harugumo is that she had all that firepower while being better able to do traditional DD things than either. I haven’t played Kitakaze much since the nerfs, though, so I can’t really comment on her current state.

Kita isn't bad, it is just her handling is so clumsy in relation to her concealment that I don't process it right and tend to go hyper aggro (dakka dakka) and end up soaking too much damage in comparison to other DDs on a similar concealment range. 

9 minutes ago, Counter_Gambit said:

Akizuki and Harugumo have a harder time dodging torps. Kitakaze is the best of the trio for torp dodging. Harugumo is a better torp dodger than Akizuki.

But still very clumsy when compared to other DDs on the 6km Concealment range... 

12 minutes ago, Counter_Gambit said:

As for doing things you shouldn;t... Treat the 3 of them as a trio of Cruisers, disguised as DDs.

I know I shouldn't but the Concealment is actually very workable for doing DD stuff ... my brain gets baited in thinking I can pull plays other regular DDs can.  :(

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7 minutes ago, Sventex said:

The collection series that gave me the XI bonus package gave me a VIII bonus package too.  So now that the question is no longer nonsensical, can you answer the question?

Hey I got the same collection and did the same, I actually assigned the camos to both Aki and Kita... and later realized I don't really enjoy the play style :(

My post-mortem analysis would be:

Kita is comparatively a better ship than Aki, if you enjoy Aki there's no fundamental reason to not enjoy Kita.

Even if T9 now gets matched against T11, comparatively the number of events is lower and the density of T11 ship much lower to the corresponding T10s Aki will face as a T8. In short, T9 is still much better in terms of MM than T8 because T10 ships are still orders of magnitude more common than T11. 

Even if T9 is no longer what it was, you still are faced with the fact of having a T9 perma camo, what are you gonna do with it? ... if you enjoy Kita, go Kita. 

If you enjoy the line, it makes a lot of sense putting Perma Camos in both Aki and Kita as it would be potentially very valuable for line resets, you'll get good profit from both.

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Just now, ArIskandir said:

Hey I got the same collection and did the same, I actually assigned the camos to both Aki and Kita... and later realized I don't really enjoy the play style :(

My post-mortem analysis would be:

Kita is comparatively a better ship than Aki, if you enjoy Aki there's no fundamental reason to not enjoy Kita.

Even if T9 now gets matched against T11, comparatively the number of events is lower and the density of T11 ship much lower to the corresponding T10s Aki will face as a T8. In short, T9 is still much better in terms of MM than T8 because T10 ships are still orders of magnitude more common than T11. 

Even if T9 is no longer what it was, you still are faced with the fact of having a T9 perma camo, what are you gonna do with it? ... if you enjoy Kita, go Kita. 

If you enjoy the line, it makes a lot of sense putting Perma Camos in both Aki and Kita as it would be potentially very valuable for line resets, you'll get good profit from both.

I suppose that's a far assessment.  I used the Kita to farm ribbons for missions and still have my Yamamoto captain on her so in my mind it's worth keeping at least one of these ships in the line loaded for bare.

I am struggling to figure out what are some really nice T9 ships as alternative since that collections gives 2 IX bonus packages, Alsace was (formerly) good, but I got my hands on a Jean Bart which obsoleted her.  I have noticed that T9 tends to be the downgrade in the tech lines.

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1 hour ago, ArIskandir said:

Honestly I've come to realize I don't like the line, they are too fat for my taste... for some reason they trick me into thinking I can do stuff I shouldn't be doing, also I tend to take an inordinate amount or torpedo hits when playing them (compared to other DDs)... that makes me go malding.  

Fat DDs you have to be mindful of how much easier you are to do deal damage to. It's not just eating torps, but also soaking up fullpen damage. BBs may not be able to erase you anymore after the big gun fullpen change for AP, but cruisers and DDs can still do it. So you can lose a lot of HP quickly and just be SoL. Groz was my first T10 DD and I got ruined in it due to how fat it was, and still haven't gone back to fix it.

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2 minutes ago, Sventex said:

I am struggling to figure out what are some really nice T9 ships as alternative since that collections gives 2 IX bonus packages, Alsace was (formerly) good, but I got my hands on a Jean Bart which obsoleted her.  I have noticed that T9 tends to be the downgrade in the tech lines.

Imo, only the T9 DDs are really effective under a T11 scenario... T9 BBs and Cruisers are by design very meh and most likely fodder when considered against T11. Which ever your choice end up being, I strongly recommend going for a DDs, most are really good and solid choices... in fact I struggle to find one line I don't like :cap_hmm:

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2 hours ago, Helstrem said:

I know right?  Who'd want an Akizuki with more torpedoes, more speed, higher rate of fire, more health, higher fire resistance at no cost to agility?  /s

Akizuki got me Yamamoto and my first (at the time,) 19 point commander.

None of what you cite about Kitakaze was ever stand out enough about it to make me think of her as anything but ‘that thing with the uselessly long torpedo reload.’ (Even the fastest Kita torp reload is still 45 seconds slower than Aki’s worst reload. The point of extra torps is, what? If they’re hardly ever available.)

More speed; a whole 3 knots.

More health? My Aki shows 23,200 versus 20,700, (skills?) (B hulls.) (23,850 with SE, woo hoo, a whole extra 650.)

More firepower? Maybe it’s my skill setup, but in my port, Kita is showing a longer reload than Aki, (3.0 sec versus 2.8.) (if both have MBAAS, their reload is equal at 2.8.)

Rudder shift shows 1 second better. 4.6 versus 5.6 for Aki.

Not seeing how Kita is so much better than Aki.

 

 

Edited by Estimated_Prophet

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The Aki is my best scoring bote for Base EXP bar none.  Haru comes in second Kita third...

Edited by MWSVette1

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11 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Akizuki got me Yamamoto and my first (at the time,) 19 point commander.

None of what you cite about Kitakaze was ever stand out enough about it to make me think of her as anything but ‘that thing with the uselessly long torpedo reload.’ (Even the fastest Kita torp reload is still 45 seconds slower than Aki’s worst reload. The point of extra torps is, what? If they’re hardly ever available.)

More speed; a whole 3 knots.

More health? My Aki shows 23,200 versus 20,700, (skills?) (B hulls.) (23,850 with SE, woo hoo, a whole extra 650.)

More firepower? Maybe it’s my skill setup, but in my port, Kita is showing a longer reload than Aki, (3.0 sec versus 2.8.) (if both have MBAAS, their reload is equal at 2.8.)

Rudder shift shows 1 second better. 4.6 versus 5.6 for Aki.

Not seeing how Kita is so much better than Aki.

For a long time Kita had good DD concealment values instead of fat-DD concealment values. So it could do normal DD things AND be really powerful like Akizuki could, it was definitely superior.

As for speed, it matters. Akizuki is so slow even normal fast BBs (not really fast fast BBs) are a threat to trapping it. Kita doesn't need to worry about that. Nevermind all the cruisers.

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20 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

More firepower? Maybe it’s my skill setup, but in my port, Kita is showing a longer reload than Aki, (3.0 sec versus 2.8.) (if both have MBAAS, their reload is equal at 2.8.)

With captain skills and equipment on Kita, it's a 2.5 sec reload.  Kita definitely has more dakka, but she's hardly ever get to use it on Tier VI ships though.

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1 hour ago, ArIskandir said:

Kita isn't bad, it is just her handling is so clumsy in relation to her concealment that I don't process it right and tend to go hyper aggro (dakka dakka) and end up soaking too much damage in comparison to other DDs on a similar concealment range. 

But still very clumsy when compared to other DDs on the 6km Concealment range... 

I know I shouldn't but the Concealment is actually very workable for doing DD stuff ... my brain gets baited in thinking I can pull plays other regular DDs can.  :(

Yeah, having to treat them as Cruisers with extremely powerful concealment is tough, I will give you that. Though Kitakaze is faster, and doesn't lose speed while turning the same way Akizuki does. Akizuki handles like a cruiser, turn rate is slow, she loses speed so dang quickly, takes forever to get up to speed. Kitakaze is the fastest of the trio, which is probably why I like her handling better, though Harugumo has more dakka dakka, which is why I play her more than Kita. Akizuki being able to see tier 6 is what draws me to play Akizuki more than Kitakaze. Kitakaze, the better ship (with exception to Haru's extra turret), in an awkward place in the tier list, which prevents Kitakaze from standing out.

30 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Akizuki got me Yamamoto and my first (at the time,) 19 point commander.

None of what you cite about Kitakaze was ever stand out enough about it to make me think of her as anything but ‘that thing with the uselessly long torpedo reload.’ (Even the fastest Kita torp reload is still 45 seconds slower than Aki’s worst reload. The point of extra torps is, what? If they’re hardly ever available.)

More speed; a whole 3 knots.

More health? My Aki shows 23,200 versus 20,700, (skills?) (B hulls.) (23,850 with SE, woo hoo, a whole extra 650.)

More firepower? Maybe it’s my skill setup, but in my port, Kita is showing a longer reload than Aki, (3.0 sec versus 2.8.) (if both have MBAAS, their reload is equal at 2.8.)

Rudder shift shows 1 second better. 4.6 versus 5.6 for Aki.

Not seeing how Kita is so much better than Aki.

 

 

More speed can relate to the fact she doesn't lose speed the same way during a turn, that Akizuki does. But yeah, I completely agree, she doesn't stand out for the tier she is in. Akizuki does, because she's able to see tier 6. Harugumo stands out to the other two thanks to that extra turret, making her the stronger of the trio. But stat wise, other than health, and the extra turret, Kitakaze is the better of the trio, and it is her tier placement that prevents her from standing out.

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39 minutes ago, Sventex said:

With captain skills and equipment on Kita, it's a 2.5 sec reload.  Kita definitely has more dakka, but she's hardly ever get to use it on Tier VI ships though.

Out of curiosity, bedsides MBAAS, what gets that extra .3 off the reload?

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5 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Out of curiosity, bedsides MBAAS, what gets that extra .3 off the reload?

Main Battery Modification 3

-12% off reload time

-13% turret traverse speed

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1 hour ago, MnemonScarlet said:

Fat DDs you have to be mindful of how much easier you are to do deal damage to. It's not just eating torps, but also soaking up fullpen damage. BBs may not be able to erase you anymore after the big gun fullpen change for AP, but cruisers and DDs can still do it. So you can lose a lot of HP quickly and just be SoL. Groz was my first T10 DD and I got ruined in it due to how fat it was, and still haven't gone back to fix it.

LOL I still remember those days when BB AP shells could do full Pen damage to Destroyers.  A blast from the past:

ABC_morton_salt_jef_141230_16x9_992.jpg

 

Grozovoi is a fascinating subject for a DD.  Statistically, i.e. looking at gun performance, concealment, etc, she looks like a good to go, general use Destroyer.  But almost nobody plays her.  I remember checking on RU Server stats and even the Russians hated playing her.  They prefer their pride and joy, Shimakaze (seriously, the sheer amount of play she has over any other X DD really stood out when I checked quarterly stats on Maplesyrup before it went kaput).  She is so unpopular that WG buffed her several times over in significant ways, yet hardly anyone plays Groz.

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