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BarneyStyle

Subs need to go, and the next test for Auto ASW proves it

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2 minutes ago, BarneyStyle said:

I usually use this forum as a dumpster for my game rage because well, who cares about any of you.

So here goes.  WG recent dev blog about giving CV auto ASW because they're too busy torturing everyone else to protect themselves just proves Subs have zero place in this game.  Pings last way to long and if you're a BB and get picked on, forget it.  You might as well just exit the battle.  Their contempt for the player base by giving such a weapon to sub 50% players is enough as it is.  Do they have a huge battle impact? no.  Do they make your experience in game miserable and make you want to quit playing? yes.  They're a garbage design plain and simple.  I'm sure this will get deleted because mods are too sensitive here but the truth hurts.

 

See you in game! XOXO

CV's have a couple auto actions to deal with other ships, should not be a surprise that WG might add one for a new ship type.

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7 minutes ago, BarneyStyle said:

I usually use this forum as a dumpster for my game rage.

So here goes.  WG recent dev blog about giving CV auto ASW because they're too busy torturing everyone else to protect themselves just proves Subs have zero place in this game.  Pings last way to long and if you're a BB and get picked on, forget it.  You might as well just exit the battle.  Their contempt for the player base by giving such a weapon to sub 50% players is enough as it is.  Do they have a huge battle impact? no.  Do they make your experience in game miserable and make you want to quit playing? yes.  They're a garbage design plain and simple.  I'm sure this will get deleted because mods are too sensitive here but the truth hurts.

 

See you in game! XOXO

Barney!   You used to post so often..... not so much anymore....

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3 minutes ago, paradat said:

CV's have a couple auto actions to deal with other ships, should not be a surprise that WG might add one for a new ship type.

1 min long auto DCP is also utter garbage.

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8 minutes ago, BarneyStyle said:

I usually use this forum as a dumpster for my game rage.

So here goes.  WG recent dev blog about giving CV auto ASW because they're too busy torturing everyone else to protect themselves just proves Subs have zero place in this game.  Pings last way to long and if you're a BB and get picked on, forget it.  You might as well just exit the battle.  Their contempt for the player base by giving such a weapon to sub 50% players is enough as it is.  Do they have a huge battle impact? no.  Do they make your experience in game miserable and make you want to quit playing? yes.  They're a garbage design plain and simple.  I'm sure this will get deleted because mods are too sensitive here but the truth hurts.

 

See you in game! XOXO

 

 

Hmmm....seems like giving CVs ASW falls into line with why other ships that have no business having ASW have them.  Doesn't prove Subs have no place in the game that I can see.   

 

Honestly, I think you just need to learn how to play against them.  Almost everyone I've seen who applies themselves has found ways to minimize Subs to little more than weaker DDs.  But, I've also seen that players who hate subs hate the truth because it hurts, and tend to be too sensitive to their own concepts of the game, so I know there are going to be those who will simply refuse to even try.

 

I hope you are not one of those, and can come to understand that a new thing is not necessarily a bad thing or something impossible to deal with once you learn about it.

 

 

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Automated ASW. "Well of course. Lets remove the only strong counter to CVs and while we're at it, give them a bib". 

They dont think much of CV players' intelligence. 

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24 minutes ago, BarneyStyle said:

I usually use this forum as a dumpster for my game rage.

So here goes.  WG recent dev blog about giving CV auto ASW because they're too busy torturing everyone else to protect themselves just proves Subs have zero place in this game.  Pings last way to long and if you're a BB and get picked on, forget it.  You might as well just exit the battle.  Their contempt for the player base by giving such a weapon to sub 50% players is enough as it is.  Do they have a huge battle impact? no.  Do they make your experience in game miserable and make you want to quit playing? yes.  They're a garbage design plain and simple.  I'm sure this will get deleted because mods are too sensitive here but the truth hurts.

Not gonna lie, this IS moreorless the usual scenario when it comes to subs attacking BBs. And it shouldn't be, but it is. And that's why subs (as they are right now) are unfun to play against.

And while some people seem to think that subs are ABSOLUTELY hunky dory and you can dodge them OH SO easily!!.....yeah, no. Not in battleships, it's not THAT easy. ESPECIALLY against conventional shotgun attack. you WILL take that 40k+ damage. At under 1km range. which in my personal opinion, because the attack so easy to pull off, is BROKEN!

YOU try avoiding a sub shotgun attack under 1km travelling at only sub-16 knots under maneuvers in a Standard type battleship. It's really not that simple. and no, "Play a different battleship then!!!1!" ISN'T A SOLUTION. Also, this happens regardless of speed. Happened to me in my Musashi too, she travels faster, yet even she can't evade fast enough. May the Moon help you if you ever are in reverse or are at 1/4 or 1/2 speed or so.

But ultimately, whether you love'em or hate'em, I think MOST people can agree that subs can be better implemented into the game, than they currently are.

Now, with all that said, Wargaming will NOT stop pushing to get subs into the game. They have sunk in SO MANY resources to pidgeon-hole these things into the game. So asking for subs to be removed is a fool's errand. Don't bother. California is more likely to get a buff than subs being removed. You heard it here first. :P

What we SHOULD be doing is figuring out how to implement them properly into the game, because they're really not right now. That's why there's so many tests for these subs. Had they been working properly, they would already be officially launched.

17 minutes ago, YouSatInGum said:

1 min long auto DCP is also utter garbage.

Agreed! I don't get 1 min long Auto DCP, why the heck do CVs get that?! And I'd argue that battleships need DCP more than ANY OTHER SHIP TYPE.

 

Edited by SaiIor_Moon
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like someone said in another thread "CVs are more AI controlled now than human controlled" theyre basically bots outside of the attacking aircraft, only a matter of time befor WG finds a way to automate that too so all a CV player has to do is click the "Battle" button

Edited by tcbaker777
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13 minutes ago, SaiIor_Moon said:

YOU try avoiding a sub shotgun attack under 1km travelling at only sub-16 knots under maneuvers in a Standard type battleship. It's really not that simple. and no, "Play a different battleship then!!!1!" ISN'T A SOLUTION. Also, this happens regardless of speed. Happened to me in my Musashi too, she travels faster, yet even she can't evade fast enough. May the Moon help you if you ever are in reverse or are at 1/4 or 1/2 speed or so.

With respect, the way to avoid the shotgun attack involves out-thinking opponents sooner and more often.
In other words, "a lot of things already went wrong" before getting hit, and the solution involves reconnaisance, intuition and deduction and map-reading well in advance of being targeted.
Teamwork is also helpful and can be very effective.

We know, based upon map-positioning where the submarines spawn and the mirrored spawn-points for our opponents.  Things develop from there.
Tracking the whereabouts of red-team ships helps, a lot.  Even brief glimpses narrow-down the search area, for a limited time.

That said, plenty of us get hit during a match by various opponents.  I've dodged plenty of torpedoes and eaten plenty of hits upon my hulls, in all ship types.   I still have much to learn.  :-)

But, I also know that I've sunk submarines while playing the "* I have no defense against submarines *" ship types, such as CV's and the Ise (a hybrid BB without depth-charges).
I've played (all ship types) in Submarine Testing battles on the Public Test Server before the air-strike depth-charge was provided to players on the live-server.
There are ways to sink submarines and not all of those ways involve depth-charges.

Part of the reason I play all ship types is to *learn* how they work and how to play them well.  And that helps me understand how to play against them, too.
Virtues, vices and quirks.  Every ship type, and each ship within the types, has their own unique qualities.

If that sounds like too much work, well, that's okay.  We're here to have fun and play shooty-boats.  People make choices for themselves.

But, if one desires to "do their best", then some level of commitment is involved.

We don't get to always fight with ideal circumstances. 
When we click "BATTLE" we accept that we're playing with the ships & players we're matched-up with on the map(s) that the game-mode provides.
But, with a "can do" attitude, and a little bit of study, we can prepare ourselves to face adversity with aplomb.  :-)

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1 hour ago, paradat said:

CV's have a couple auto actions to deal with other ships, should not be a surprise that WG might add one for a new ship type.

But it is another indicator that CVs don't really fit the game either. Need lots of CV only special rules.

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1 hour ago, Jakob_Knight said:

Honestly, I think you just need to learn how to play against them

I can't wait to learn how to auto-attack...

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20 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

We don't get to always fight with ideal circumstances. 

When it comes to subs that can choose WHEN to engage you at will, you are NEVER fighting with ideal circumstances....

Edited by SaiIor_Moon
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Just now, SaiIor_Moon said:

When it comes to subs that can choose WHEN to engage you at will, you are NEVER fighting with ideal circumstances....


image_2022-08-29_204726928.thumb.png.f0e7b63681e216003b1a568ffbf269dc.png

image_2022-08-29_205131253.thumb.png.de8954dd99c078ed7977ecadc410bfda.png
 

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5 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:


image_2022-08-29_204726928.thumb.png.f0e7b63681e216003b1a568ffbf269dc.png

CalculatingWigglyCoyote-size_restricted.

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Just now, Wolfswetpaws said:


image_2022-08-29_204726928.thumb.png.f0e7b63681e216003b1a568ffbf269dc.png

image_2022-08-29_205131253.thumb.png.de8954dd99c078ed7977ecadc410bfda.png
 

Well then call me super pretty and unstoppable then, because battleship vs subs definitely qualify as "tough experiences", because their current implementation ingame is :etc_swear:.

Sadly, believing in myself ain't gonna stop that 40k+ hit from smacking me in the face with virtually no counterplay unless I somehow ram the sub. Quality, exemplary game mechanics right there. And of course, DDs can't even do their job of being ASW properly. So that's clearly working perfectly. /s

Wolf, I don't mind if subs are in the game, I just want them to be implemented BETTER. From where I stand, they are AWFULLY implemented, and a massive fun dive to deal with. Wargaming COULD do better, but they don't.

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1 hour ago, Pugilistic said:

They dont think much of CV players' intelligence. 

They don't think much of WOWS players' intelligence (and they're not wrong). That's why they simplified carrier play with the rework in 2019. Before you had to have half a brain. Now all it takes is a quarter.

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1 minute ago, SaiIor_Moon said:

Well then call me super pretty and unstoppable then, because battleship vs subs definitely qualify as "tough experiences", because their current implementation ingame is :etc_swear:.

Sadly, believing in myself ain't gonna stop that 40k+ hit from smacking me in the face with virtually no counterplay unless I somehow ram the sub. Quality, exemplary game mechanics right there. And of course, DDs can't even do their job of being ASW properly. So that's clearly working perfectly. /s

Wolf, I don't mind if subs are in the game, I just want them to be implemented BETTER. From where I stand, they are AWFULLY implemented, and a massive fun dive to deal with. Wargaming COULD do better, but they don't.

Heh.  :-)

I'm not 100% satisfied with the current "in testing" situation, either, for what it is worth.  I feel that more testing is needed, until we arrive at a workable combination of qualities and game-mechanics.
But, I am willing to play-test the "in testing" configurations, for evaluation and data-gathering (by WOWs) and my own personal improvement.
I figure the "feedback" we share here and elsewhere does contribute towards the goal of creating a better game environment.  For now, it's a "work in progress".  :-)

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image_2022-08-29_210602704.thumb.png.08f75f95806cca7d4ee9508feeefe589.png
image_2022-08-29_210620443.thumb.png.db9499707991bfc34e5d472170d4c45b.png
 

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14 minutes ago, BarnacleCollector said:

They don't think much of WOWS players' intelligence (and they're not wrong). That's why they simplified carrier play with the rework in 2019. Before you had to have half a brain. Now all it takes is a quarter.

The scary/hilarious thing, it's still not enough. :^)

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21 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

But, I am willing to play-test the "in testing" configurations, for evaluation and data-gathering (by WOWs) and my own personal improvement.
I figure the "feedback" we share here and elsewhere does contribute towards the goal of creating a better game environment.  For now, it's a "work in progress".  :-)

Likewise. I play tested the subs as-is, I faced off against subs as-is, and as-is, the interactions just aren't REMOTELY fun, enjoyable, or even acceptable. Sadly, our feedback seems to be falling on deaf ears, which I am VERY used to by now.

But you are correct, subs are DEFINITELY a "work in progress". That is abundantly clear, because they are nowhere NEAR ready for release.

 

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3 hours ago, BarneyStyle said:

WG recent dev blog about giving CV auto ASW because they're too busy torturing everyone else to protect themselves just proves Subs have zero place in this game.  Pings last way to long and if you're a BB and get picked on, forget it.  You might as well just exit the battle.  Their contempt for the player base by giving such a weapon to sub 50% players is enough as it is.  Do they have a huge battle impact? no.  Do they make your experience in game miserable and make you want to quit playing? yes.  They're badly designed, plain and simple.

Subs are annoying, they slow the game down, they're boring to play and now they're going to be zero threat to CV players.  Why even have them? 

 

See you in game! XOXO

I was here when posts were, CVs have to go. Like them or hate them they are here to stay. 

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1 hour ago, SaiIor_Moon said:

Likewise. I play tested the subs as-is, I faced off against subs as-is, and as-is, the interactions just aren't REMOTELY fun, enjoyable, or even acceptable. Sadly, our feedback seems to be falling on deaf ears, which I am VERY used to by now.

But you are correct, subs are DEFINITELY a "work in progress". That is abundantly clear, because they are nowhere NEAR ready for release.

 

:Smile_teethhappy:

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4 hours ago, paradat said:

CV's have a couple auto actions to deal with other ships, should not be a surprise that WG might add one for a new ship type.

Why not just automate the plane squadrons as well? 

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5 hours ago, Pugilistic said:

Automated ASW. "Well of course. Lets remove the only strong counter to CVs and while we're at it, give them a bib". 

They don't think much of CV players' intelligence. 

It's not about their intelligence.  It's about their ability.  There are obviously some players who excel at carrier play and some who don't.  This was a big part of the reason for the direction the CV rework took.  

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