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AdmiralThunder

Iwami in Co-op - Hey it's better than Hizen (PVE Thread)

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*** Disclaimer - I have said all along Iwami was a hard pass for me as I found it very meh based on the stats and replays I saw of it and thus not worth the Coal. Today I was bored and with 950K Coal + a Coupon I said screw it and got it to have as a flake event ship. So I changed my mind before anyone decides to remind me what I had said about not getting it. :fish_glass::Smile_trollface:***

So, I decided to grab it despite believing it would be an utter crap ship. It isn't complete crap but man it is not good either. I can say it is better than Hizen but that is a pretty low bar to pass so it isn't saying much. Unless you have a ton of Coal hanging around like I did, and all the other Coal ships like I do (passed on Black for now but have all others), I do not recommend it. It isn't good or even average. It can do ok in Co-op because, well, it's Co-op and any ship can be made to perform there but man I wouldn't want to take this turd into PVP. Nope, no way, forget about it.

giphy.gif

So in the handful of games I have played, based on my tens of thousands of games played in WOWS overall, I have a good feel for this thing already. My initial stats are ok but sure to fall off precipitously as I had favorable spawns and a lot  of friendly bot teams. Over time as I have to actually fight for results this thing will come up short I have little doubt. But FWIW I thought I would offer some pros and cons to anyone who might find it useful...

Pro: 

This is hard as honestly I don't find anything truly a "pro" on the ship. Nothing stands out that is above average or excellent. Nothing even jumps to mind making me go this is for the pro list. I have decided that to be completely honest there is nothing I can add to the "pro" list as even the good stuff has bad associated with it. The only things even close to a "pro" I can offer are...

  • Iwami is better than Hizen. So, if you don't have Musashi, and only have Hizen from the dockyard and find it utterly terrible like most of us do, Iwami would give you a better option as a T9 IJN Premium BB. If you really like IJN BB's, and again don't have Musashi, Iwami is an upgrade over Hizen. Not a huge one but it is better.
  • Reload of the 410MM guns can be lowered to just 24.6 sec w/ MBM3 in slot 6. It has a decent ROF. AR will lower that as you take damage and this thing will take damage; early and often.
  • 32.2 sec turret rotation with GTG (that is with Yamamoto and his enhanced skill though)

Neutral:

  • Secondary guns (full build w/ flag except no AAM2 in slot 6). Something that should be a "pro" and especially in Co-op winds up a neutral because of unfortunate shortcomings. They aren't horrible but they are not very good either.
    • 10.5km (full build with flag) range is short for the tier. It is adequate for Co-op but 11-12km would be better. 
    • ROF. The 100MM guns have a decent ROF @ 2.6 sec  (2.0 w/ AAM2) but the 155MM guns (approx 40% of the sec guns) have a terrible ROF @ 10.3 sec (8.2 w/ AAM2).
    • The 100MM guns have decent base pen (30MM) but the 155MM's have average pen (26MM). Fire % chance is nothing special on either so if you slot IFHE for the increased pen (37MM and  32MM) fire % falls below average. 
    • Accuracy. This leaves a lot to be desired. Iwami is supposed to have improved secondary dispersion but I don't see it. Accuracy seems pretty standard to me. The low ROF of the 155MM's + average accuracy means the secondary hits add up slow.
    • Firing angles. The guns just do not fire unless you have quite a bit of side exposed for them to do so. Also, the 155MM's are all rear mounted and have very limited firing arcs and use.
  • Torpedoes. High damage torps (4X 21K damage torps p/ side) are a real plus in Co-op and especially for BB's as brawling happens most games. However, like how the secondary guns should be a pro these are neutral.
    • HORRIBLE firing arcs. Like so many IJN ships in the game the firing arcs for the torps is abysmal. You have to really show side to get the torps away when closing on a ship. Iwami does not have favorable forward torp angles like Kii does. It is more like the IJN Cruisers. The angles are great if you are running away and kiting but that is not a Co-op thing like it is in PVP. 
    • LONG reload (150 sec). Consider yourself lucky if you manage to get 2 salvos of torps off in a typical Co-op game.
  • HP. Iwami has 80,700 HP which should be a pro for a T9 BB but because the armor is so bad it doesn't make the difference it could if the armor was even 1/2 way decent. 
  • TDR% is ok at 37%. Not a pro but not a con either.
  • Speed. 28.2 knots is ok. Not great not the worst.
  • Concealment is average. Not an issue for Co-op but not a pro nor is it a con.

Con:

In full disclosure - I have an intense hate relationship with the IJN 410MM guns in this game. They just do not perform for me. Very inconsistent accuracy and sub par performance if you do hit despite stats that should indicate the exact opposite. I was predisposed to dislike Iwami's guns and they have done nothing to change that view to this point but rather have reinforced it with typical performance.

  • Guns. 4X2 410MM guns w/ a 2.1 sigma and 24.6 sec reload. This should be a massive pro for the ship but other than the reload they just are so underwhelming and disappointing. 
    • Don't be fooled by the very good sigma as something is funky with dispersion. For every nice grouping you get 6+ that look like a flock of pigeons startled into flight with the shells flying everywhere. At times the pattern looks like you fired just the front 2 turrets on Marlborough or Alsace. Just goes everywhere. Jean Bart has better consistent accuracy so far vs what I have seen from Iwami. JB is great but accurate is not a description that comes to mind yet it is more so than Iwami despite that 2.1 sigma. You also get a LOT of patterns that land where you want but totally bracket the ship going long or short and NOTHING hits. I had 4 salvos at a full broadside bot CV at 8-11KM and not 1 hit in any of them yet the shells landed perfect all around it. The horizontal dispersion especially at times is truly horrible with extremely wide patterns blown all to heck. Once in a while it is a nice tight group and you get a big hit but it is not as common as it should be based on stats. It does not deliver what you would expect from 2.1 sigma.
    • Shatters and bounces. Be prepared for lots of them. Lots of overpens too. You will get fooled now and then by a big salvo with multiple pens and citadels for 20-30K that have you thinking wow this is great but it is not the norm and you end up shaking your head in disgust at some point. The norm is maybe get 1-2 hits and 5-7k damage at best. Very inconsistent shell performance. 
  • Armor. It sucks. The deck is 50MM so that is ok but the rest is just meh.
    • 32MM plating bow, stern, and upper belt. Nothing great. It can bounce everything except 460MM+ but you have to angle and you can't always do that. It takes a crap ton of pen damage in big chunks.
    • Very big citadel (front most to rear most turret) that sits above the waterline. This thing takes a LOT of citadels if you aren't careful.
    • It has a sort of mini Yamato cheek thing going on. I didn't have quite enough angle to bounce a bot Georgia I was charging down and it penned me through the bow just ahead of the front turret. It was for 2 citadels. I had to go back to port and look closer to see what happened and that is where I saw the 2 small cheeks at the front and a weird rounded center. It is a shell catcher if the bow is penned. Be sure you angle enough to bounce or it will hurt! 
    • Average overall. This thing is no brawler armor wise. It has typical IJN BB weak armor that requires you play at range so you have time to angle to and dodge incoming. It eats huge chunk pen damage and does not have very strong side armor, to go along with the previously mentioned high and long citadel,  so very easy to get wrecked.
  • AA. :Smile_facepalm:  It is bad. I barely shot down any planes and had CV's attack me in every game so far. They were all T10 CV's granted but I barely touched the planes even though they are bots and don't dodge flak.  The AA is bad even by the neutered and useless current AA standards.
  • Maneuverability. This thing handles like a pregnant whale stuck in frozen mud.
    • The rudder and turn radius are average.
    • The engine takes forever to get back up to speed so that + the average rudder and radius means it slows down and becomes very sluggish when you have to maneuver. 
    • I am currently running SGM2 but am considering trying Propulsion mod to see if it helps because this thing accelerates like a sleeping slug.

So FWIW there is my mini review so far. As said it is better than Hizen but if that is the metric to determine if a ship is worth getting the answer should be no. Iwami is not very good. Not a total stink barge but not something I would spend Coal on unless your situation is like mine where there is nothing else to use it on. But as always remember this is my opinion only. YMMV with it.

Hope this helps.

:Smile_honoring:

Image1.jpg

Edited by AdmiralThunder
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Thanks for the review Admiral. This really helps me make up my mind about her because I was considering it. Will just keep hoarding my coal! 

I already have Kii, Musashi, Hizen, and Yamato with a perm camo and I hardly ever play them but was hoping for a secondary build IJN BB and was why I had considered picking it up for coal. 

Edited by Taylor3006

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10 minutes ago, Taylor3006 said:

Thanks for the review Admiral. This really helps me make up my mind about her because I was considering it. Will just keep hoarding my coal! 

I already have Kii, Musashi, Hizen, and Yamato with a perm camo and I hardly ever play them but was hoping for a secondary build IJN BB and was why I had considered picking it up for coal. 

That was why I was initially interested but it isn't even very good at that. I knew that going in though. Iwami is what happens when you have 950K Coal, a coupon, and are bored LOL.

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33 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

That was why I was initially interested but it isn't even very good at that. I knew that going in though. Iwami is what happens when you have 950K Coal, a coupon, and are bored LOL.

OMG I did something similar out of boredom.  Got the Sherman knowing I wouldn't like her but wanted the snowflake steel. That was so disappointing that I bought Siegfried using RB points. She was ok but still felt empty so bought 3k doubloons to convert to FXP and got the Agir.... Again, meh... Figured I would just get the ship I have been wanting a while but had a hard time justifying getting and got the Irian using my doubloon coupon. That made me very happy, she is a great ship...

Course then today I got my 30% off coupon since it is my anniversary so went ahead and bought San Diego based on everyone's opinion on her. I love the Atlanta and Flint so SD was a great fit and the heal makes me so happy. Now I just need 13k more steel so I can get Austin! 

One reason that pushed me over the edge getting more premiums was because I was worried about the new rules for camo. I wasn't sure that a new premium acquired post upcoming patch, would still have the credit bonus applied like those you own beforehand. Figured I would get all the things I wanted prior to the change and not worry about it. 

Edited by Taylor3006

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4 minutes ago, Taylor3006 said:

OMG I did something similar out of boredom.  Got the Sherman knowing I wouldn't like her but wanted the snowflake steel. That was so disappointing that I bought Siegfried using RB points. She was ok but still felt empty so bought 3k doubloons to convert to FXP and got the Agir.... Again, meh... Figured I would just get the ship I have been wanting a while but had a hard time justifying getting and got the Irian using my doubloon coupon. That made me very happy, she is a great ship...

Course then today I got my 30% off coupon since it is my anniversary so went ahead and bought San Diego based on everyone's opinion on her. I love the Atlanta and Flint so SD was a great fit and the heal makes me so happy. Now I just need 13k more steel so I can get Austin! 

One reason that pushed me over the edge getting more premiums was because I was worried about the new rules for camo. I wasn't sure that a new premium acquired post upcoming patch, would still have the credit bonus applied like those you own beforehand. Figured I would get all the things I wanted prior to the change and not worry about it. 

I got Sherman out of some crate. 

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Even with my 1 million coal and a coupon, Iwami doesn't seem worth it. It's sort of an easy decision if you already own Georgia.

Edited by Beleaf_

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59 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

*** Disclaimer - I have said all along Iwami was a hard pass for me as I found it very meh based on the stats and replays I saw of it and thus not worth the Coal. Today I was bored and with 950K Coal + a Coupon I said screw it and got it to have as a flake event ship. So I changed my mind before anyone decides to remind me what I had said about not getting it. :fish_glass::Smile_trollface:***

So, I decided to grab it despite believing it would be an utter crap ship. It isn't complete crap but man it is not good either. I can say it is better than Hizen but that is a pretty low bar to pass so it isn't saying much. Unless you have a ton of Coal hanging around like I did, and all the other Coal ships like I do (passed on Black for now but have all others), I do not recommend it. It isn't good or even average. It can do ok in Co-op because, well, it's Co-op and any ship can be made to perform there but man I wouldn't want to take this turd into PVP. Nope, no way, forget about it.

giphy.gif

So in the handful of games I have played, based on my tens of thousands of games played in WOWS overall, I have a good feel for this thing already. My initial stats are ok but sure to fall off precipitously as I had favorable spawns and a lot  of friendly bot teams. Over time as I have to actually fight for results this thing will come up short I have little doubt. But FWIW I thought I would offer some pros and cons to anyone who might find it useful...

Pro: 

This is hard as honestly I don't find anything truly a "pro" on the ship. Nothing stands out that is above average or excellent. Nothing even jumps to mind making me go this is for the pro list. I have decided that to be completely honest there is nothing I can add to the "pro" list as even the good stuff has bad associated with it. The only things even close to a "pro" I can offer are...

  • Iwami is better than Hizen. So, if you don't have Musashi, and only have Hizen from the dockyard and find it utterly terrible like most of us do, Iwami would give you a better option as a T9 IJN Premium BB. If you really like IJN BB's, and again don't have Musashi, Iwami is an upgrade over Hizen. Not a huge one but it is better.
  • Reload of the 410MM guns can be lowered to just 24.6 sec w/ MBM3 in slot 6. It has a decent ROF. AR will lower that as you take damage and this thing will take damage; early and often.
  • 32.2 sec turret rotation with GTG (that is with Yamamoto and his enhanced skill though)

Neutral:

  • Secondary guns (full build w/ flag except no AAM2 in slot 6). Something that should be a "pro" and especially in Co-op winds up a neutral because of unfortunate shortcomings. They aren't horrible but they are not very good either.
    • 10.5km (full build with flag) range is short for the tier. It is adequate for Co-op but 11-12km would be better. 
    • ROF. The 100MM guns have a decent ROF @ 2.6 sec  (2.0 w/ AAM2) but the 155MM guns (approx 40% of the sec guns) have a terrible ROF @ 10.3 sec (8.2 w/ AAM2).
    • The 100MM guns have decent base pen (30MM) but the 155MM's have average pen (26MM). Fire % chance is nothing special on either so if you slot IFHE for the increased pen (37MM and  32MM) fire % falls below average. 
    • Accuracy. This leaves a lot to be desired. Iwami is supposed to have improved secondary dispersion but I don't see it. Accuracy seems pretty standard to me. The low ROF of the 155MM's + average accuracy means the secondary hits add up slow.
    • Firing angles. The guns just do not fire unless you have quite a bit of side exposed for them to do so. Also, the 155MM's are all rear mounted and have very limited firing arcs and use.
  • Torpedoes. High damage torps (4X 21K damage torps p/ side) are a real plus in Co-op and especially for BB's as brawling happens most games. However, like how the secondary guns should be a pro these are neutral.
    • HORRIBLE firing arcs. Like so many IJN ships in the game the firing arcs for the torps is abysmal. You have to really show sided to get the torps away when closing on a ship. Iwami does not have favorable forward torp angles like Kii does. It is more like the IJN Cruisers. The angles are great if you are running away and kiting but that is not a Co-op thing like it is in PVP. 
    • LONG reload (150 sec). Consider yourself lucky if you manage to get 2 salvos of torps off in a typical Co-op game.
  • HP. Iwami has 80,700 HP which should be a pro for a T9 BB but because the armor is so bad it doesn't make the difference it could if the armor was even 1/2 way decent. 
  • TDR% is ok at 37%. Not a pro but not a con either.
  • Speed. 28.2 knots is ok. Not great not the worst.
  • Concealment is average. Not an issue for Co-op but not a pro nor is it a con.

Con:

In full disclosure - I have an intense hate relationship with the IJN 410MM guns in this game. They just do not perform for me. Very inconsistent accuracy and sub par performance if you do hit despite stats that should indicate the exact opposite. I was predisposed to dislike Iwami's guns and they have done nothing to change that view to this point but rather have reinforced it with typical performance.

  • Guns. 4X2 410MM guns w/ a 2.1 sigma and 24.6 sec reload. This should be a massive pro for the ship but other than the reload they just are so underwhelming and disappointing. 
    • Don't be fooled by the very good sigma as something is funky with dispersion. For every nice grouping you get 6+ that look like a flock of pigeons startled into flight with the shells flying everywhere. At times the pattern looks like you fired just the front 2 turrets on Marlborough or Alsace. Just goes everywhere. Jean Bart has better consistent accuracy so far vs what I have seen from Iwami. JB is great but accurate is not a description that comes to mind yet it is more so than Iwami despite that 2.1 sigma. You also get a LOT of patterns that land where you want but totally bracket the ship going long or short and NOTHING hits. I had 4 salvos at a full broadside bot CV at 8-11KM and not 1 hit in any of them yet the shells landed perfect all around it. The horizontal dispersion especially at times is truly horrible with extremely wide patterns blown all to heck. Once in a while it is a nice tight group and you get a big hit but it is not as common as it should be based on stats. It does not deliver what you would expect from 2.1 sigma.
    • Shatters and bounces. Be prepared for lots of them. Lots of overpens too. You will get fooled now and then by a big salvo with multiple pens and citadels for 20-30K that have you thinking wow this is great but it is not the norm and you end up shaking your head in disgust at some point. The norm is maybe get 1-2 hits and 5-7k damage at best. Very inconsistent shell performance. 
  • Armor. It sucks. The deck is 50MM so that is ok but the rest is just meh.
    • 32MM plating bow, stern, and upper belt. Nothing great. It can bounce everything except 460MM+ but you have to angle and you can't always do that. It takes a crap ton of pen damage in big chunks.
    • Very big citadel (front most to rear most turret) that sits above the waterline. This thing takes a LOT of citadels if you aren't careful.
    • It has a sort of mini Yamato cheek thing going on. I didn't have quite enough angle to bounce a bot Georgia I was charging down and it penned me through the bow just ahead of the front turret. It was for 2 citadels. I had to go back to port and look closer to see what happened and that is where I saw the 2 small cheeks at the front and a weird rounded center. It is a shell catcher if the bow is penned. Be sure you angle enough to bounce or it will hurt! 
    • Average overall. This thing is no brawler armor wise. It has typical IJN BB weak armor that requires you play at range so you have time to angle to and dodge incoming. It eats huge chunk pen damage and does not have very strong side armor, to go along with the previously mentioned high and long citadel,  so very easy to get wrecked.
  • AA. :Smile_facepalm:  It is bad. I barely shot down any planes and had CV's attack me in every game so far. They were all T10 CV's granted but I barely touched the planes even though they are bots and don't dodge flak.  The AA is bad even by the neutered and useless current AA standards.
  • Maneuverability. This thing handles like a pregnant whale stuck in frozen mud.
    • The rudder and turn radius are average.
    • The engine takes forever to get back up to speed so that + the average rudder and radius means it slows down and becomes very sluggish when you have to maneuver. 
    • I am currently running SGM2 but am considering trying Propulsion mod to see if it helps because this thing accelerates like a sleeping slug.

So FWIW there is my mini review so far. As said it is better than Hizen but if that is the metric to determine if a ship is worth getting the answer should be no. Iwami is not very good. Not a total stink barge but not soemthing I would spend Coal on unless your situation is like mine where there is nothing else to use it on. But as always remember this is my opinion only. YMMV with it.

Hope this helps.

:Smile_honoring:

Image1.jpg

Well....

I have the Hizen, Kii, and the Ashitaka among IJN Premium BBs.  I was really hoping that Iwami would be able to be the 'one' (maybe call it Neo?).   From the posts I have seen, I believe the answer is - keep on looking.

I have over 600k coal, and about 1/3 of the coal ships, and I am ok with that.  I don't play the many ships I have (I am almost at 300, with having just around 100 2 years ago).  I cannot justify, to myself, paying that much coal just for a snowflake ship.  I bought Brandenburg and Mecklinburg not too long ago and they are mostly port queens for me right now.  This is not a good meta in coop for slower ships like BBs unless your name is Georgia, Schlieffen, or Bourgogne.  I guess the search/wait  will continue.

 

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i feel like being better than Hizen isnt really much of a hurdle to overcome

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I kind of thought the Iwami would be the Japanese version of the Prinz Rupprecht. 

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1 hour ago, AdmiralThunder said:

Iwami is better than Hizen. So, if you don't have Musashi, and only have Hizen from the dockyard and find it utterly terrible like most of us do,

Once again I am the contrarian.

Outside its weird square after deck, I like Hizen, (in Co-op.)

Iwami I can't judge, I don't have it.

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Here's the problem for Brawling IJN BBs in terms of main battery gunnery:  Their Main Battery Dispersion is focused at ranged combat.  Intermediate or long range = Gud

They start acting really weird if you close the range.  Yamato, Fuso, Musashi, Nagato, Shikashima, Satsuma, whatever.  You approach or get into brawling range, expect IJN BBs to do some weird shells that do a lot of his & lows.  They all do this.

 

Citadel-wise, this is not a Brawler BB's protection scheme.  The beautiful part is that angled deck for the Citadel is angled enough to let shells arc and land at perfect 90 degree angles for maximum AP penetration.

aMdmAk1.jpeg

This Citadel begs everyone around to hurt her.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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"Secondary guns (full build w/ flag except no AAM2 in slot 6). Something that should be a "pro" and especially in Co-op winds up a neutral because of unfortunate shortcomings. They aren't horrible but they are not very good either." - Admiral Thunder

Yes, I learned the hard way that one of the biggest mistakes that can be made with any Japanese and Royal Navy BBs is to go with a full secondary build.  

Just stick with a main battery build in the way of ships upgrades and you will be much happier. 

Commander 2ndry skills - well if you got the 3 or 4 or 7 for both, points to spare. Not going over all if the pros and cons of those two commander skills, you are probably already familiar with that topic anyways. Totally your call there.

Well at least you got something new to play with, GLHF with it.

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Artillery Chart for the 3 IJN BBs in Tier IX not named Musashi.  It's what I expected, but I had to make sure.  Hizen & Iwami share the exact same AP penetration performance and shell flight characteristics.

flczpzC.jpeg

 

IMO this thing would be better served with a Main Battery - Stealth - Survival Build for PVP.  For Co-Op there's a lot better BBs this tier.  Of the stuff still accessible:  Pommern, Georgia, Rupprecht, even Alsace.  Jean Bart-Black when Black Friday arrives if you don't have either version of her.

(Georgia is gone from the shop;  Pulled)

 

I will say that if the players ahead of your Iwami screw up or they're not aggressive enough, she should get some great numbers when her torpedoes start hitting things.  These are Shima torps.  28.2kts in PVP isn't an issue, but for Co-Op it is, IMO.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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Thanks Admiral for sacrificing your Coal for our benefit. Sadly your review pretty much comports with my prior opinions based on YouTube videos. I was really hoping she would be a Tier IX Kii as back when bots could actually shoot the Kii became one of my favorite ships. Thanks for allowing me to continue to hoard my 1.2 M coal reserve for who know what in the future...if anything....

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Still thinking about Iwami, but I already have a tier 9 brawling battleship I'm not fond of (FDG), and one I think is a lot of fun (Georgia). It's just a bit too confusing of a mesh of attributes for a close in battleship.

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After a few rounds in this thing, I'm pretty sure that in some config file for the ship, 2.1 sigma got changed to 1.2.   I know the IJN dispersion pattern is skewed to favor long range fire, but this is more like OG German dispersion at all ranges.  Good firing angles on the main battery though.

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13 hours ago, Mortis007 said:

After a few rounds in this thing, I'm pretty sure that in some config file for the ship, 2.1 sigma got changed to 1.2.   I know the IJN dispersion pattern is skewed to favor long range fire, but this is more like OG German dispersion at all ranges.  Good firing angles on the main battery though.

You only have 8 rifles max, which leaves plenty of room for RNG to screw you over.  Nagato in Tier VII is a 2.0 Sigma Battleship, yet there's a bunch of IJN BB players that hate her despite 410mm guns in Tier VII with reasonable reload and 2.0 Sigma.  They hate her after coming off the very forgiving Tier VI Fuso who has smaller, weaker 356mm guns, but she has 12 of them.  People like Fuso despite her having 1.5 Sigma.

In PVP, I felt like a boss in my Fuso than I ever did in my next tier Nagato.  Fuso Shotgun filled me with confidence.  Nagato?  Despite 2.0 Sigma I was praying RNG didn't screw me over hard.

C7UYpfZ.jpeg

 

Anyways, for Iwami, it's imperative you have MBM3 in Slot 6.  RNG will screw you over, as it does in all BBs, even Yamato, so you had best speed the reload up so you can roll the dice again sooner rather than later.

 

I am firm a believer in lots of guns for BBs in general being for the better.  "Quantity is a Quality all its own."

 

On the flip side is Hizen.  She has 12 guns but I say to hell with her gunnery.  1.7 Sigma and 38 seconds reload is a big F-U to the player.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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