Jump to content
You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section.
DILLGAF_MF

Submarines just my opinion

20 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

13
[GDYC]
Members
14 posts
1,243 battles

 Subj: Submarines

                                  To whom it may concern I am a Submarine Qualified Veteran, You have made submarines to weak and easy to see in the game. I understand you want balance, How ever your completely castrating the Subs. If its ok I would like to make some suggestions.  One of the most crazy things you have going on is there can be a Sub submerged across the circles we capture A.B.C. Etc. and a Destroyer right next to it. You can see the Submarine but you cannot see the Destroyer its invisible.  That would never happen even with best camouflage no ship will be invisible.The Submarine should be highlighted in Black or grey and the oil slicks are should be what makes them visible. Not red. The following list of things and how to make them more fair.

1.       Make the Subs highlighted as above. How subs where found is Noise so as the submarine takes damage to the aft sections then make them engines knock or rattle let surface ships use passive sonar that can give direction of the noise but not distance. Then they can ping and use active sonar find them allow air craft to drop buoys that are passive and some that are active as consumables to also find Subs. That’s how it works in the real world. You would gain a submarine community support and players if you did it like that, Now the submarine should have passive sonar that gives direction the same as surface ships because Subs very very rarely use active sonar because noise is the biggest enemy of a Submarine.  Keep the pings but let that give away the position of the sub.

2.       Next problem is submerge time. Even WW1 Subs could stay Submerged for 48 hours so the short time your allowed to be submerged is not even close to real. Solution is add consumables like an Oxygen scrubber, allow a submarine say 4 for tier 6. 6 for tier 8 and 10 for tier 8 just for example. If they are take damaged and run out then force the submarine to surface or snorkel for the remainder of the match. If they choose to snorkel show black or grey smoke coming from the snorkel.

3.       Same principles for batteries if they take damage force the sub to snorkel to recharge them. Now Subs are easy to kill one of things you can do for balance  is if the Submarine takes flooding damage to the batteries, That would be the equivalent as a ship Taking around to a Magazine and the Sub should explode. The premise would be when the Batteries take on salt water they make  hydrogen gas. Then BOOM. 

4.       Submarines in combat would never raise more than the attack scope in combat. So the only masts that should be up is attack periscope unless it takes damage then it would be the mains scope the mains scope is bigger. And if there snorkeling the snorkel. Snorkels is a big mast.There for a submarine if air scrubbers or batteries are not damaged should be able to stay submerged indefinitely during the game because the game is simulated hours not days.

5.       Torpedoes, in real life to sink the HMS Royal oak was 6 torpedo’s that being said 3 hit the bow second salvo missed 3rd salvo 3 hit a midships. So you should beef up the torpedo’s. say tier 6  say 12 to sink a battleship for example tier 8, 9 and tier 10 5-6 just an example but on the same not if any torpedoes hit the screw the ship should be dead in the water of it hits the rudder the spin in a circle. Etc. 

Well these are just a few ideas that I Feel would make subs more realistic while maintaining balance. Oh just a note torpedo’s where wire guided in ww 1 and 2 and only only the Germans starting in ww2 had wire guided torpedos and there was no such thing as a homing torpedoes until after the 1950s starting with the mk27 if I remember right

Dedicated to : USS JOHN MARSHALL SSBN 611 GOLD AND BLUE AND SSN 611

Sincerely 

Dillgaf_MF

  • Cool 2
  • Boring 2
  • Meh 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,115
Members
2,322 posts
6,862 battles

Like your passion but one thing you have to get passed. This is a Arcade Game not a Simulation. Realistic does not apply here! Balance means any ship can shoot any ship at any time. And easy enough for 10 yr. old's to play.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,771
[SR-_-]
Members
5,505 posts
51,675 battles

I appreciate the sentiment. Subs are not properly represented here in so many aspects. 

But it is an arcade.

Obviously, you know better as the Silent Service is not just a phrase, it is the warfare that developed over 2 World wars and into the modern age. 

I know. It is hard to look at the subs here and see any similarities.

But you know there are none, save for the names of the subs. 

The entire Cold War fully represented the way the Silent Service maintained vigilance and deterrence. One of 3 in that Triad, but the most difficult to detect. 

I thank you for your Silent Service.

 

<o

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13
[GDYC]
Members
14 posts
1,243 battles

i understand its just a game that being said why make a destroyer invisible when its just maybe 100k from a battleship, the balance should be between the ships. there is no way a destroyer could ever on its own sink a battleship because it could never get close enough. now several destroyers have a chance. like when i think it was 10 destroyers took on 4 heavy Japanese heavy cruisers the cruisers  if i remember correctly most of them where lost how ever they sunk 2 of the cruisers and heavily damaged the other 2. Im old so i might not have it exactly  right  if this is an " arcade" style game then every one should just play World of warship blitz.  arcade or not it should try and get some things right. i never understood why you need so called Ballance in a "WAR" game  There is no Ballance in war.  but to each there own  Thank you for honoring my service.   may peace find you all

 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
590
[CUDA]
Members
1,315 posts
12,602 battles

Change the U boats' speeds to realistic (17 surface, 7 submerged for a type 7) and you can buff them all you want. 

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,129
[CVA16]
Members
8,381 posts
25,477 battles
On 4/23/2022 at 5:56 PM, DILLGAF_MF said:

i never understood why you need so called Ballance in a "WAR" game 

If there was no balance in the game where any one ship can, if played well and to its strengths, defeat any other ship, wouldn't everyone just play the most powerful ship?. If BBs had their true power compared to DDs and cruisers, why would anyone play anything but a BB. Concealment was included in the game to give the smaller ships a chance. No real wargame would have such a thing. But in those games, players usually control squadrons or whole fleets.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
210
[N9PTS]
Members
547 posts
3,988 battles

you're missing some crucial facts about the Royal Oak and it's sinking one is the torpedo at hit in area that was not protected by the torpedo blister   watertight compartments we're not closed during that particular night on that vessel which led to the quick sinking of the ship

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,129
[CVA16]
Members
8,381 posts
25,477 battles
On 4/22/2022 at 4:40 PM, DILLGAF_MF said:

Submarines in combat would never raise more than the attack scope in combat.

Submarines would never be involved in a fleet action like the game represents. They might snipe ships coming and going to that fleet action but not while the guns are firing. Did WW2 subs even have separate attack and normal scopes? 

They are too slow to stalk a surface ship at high speed. Surfacing in daylight (which includes all the battles here) would be suicide. It would be pure chance if they were in the right spot at the right time. They needed time to set up their shot. Their torps were generally slow. (OK, all IRL torps were slower than their ingame counterparts but sub torps were on the slow side of normal)

Any periscope spotted, any sonar contact, is an enemy sub and would be dealt with accordingly. In game friendly fire has been turned off. IRL, not so much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13
[GDYC]
Members
14 posts
1,243 battles
On 4/26/2022 at 10:52 AM, Swervenkill said:

Change the U boats' speeds to realistic (17 surface, 7 submerged for a type 7) and you can buff them all you want. 

works for me

On 4/26/2022 at 1:42 PM, Sabot_100 said:

If there was no balance in the game where any one ship can, if played well and to its strengths, defeat any other ship, wouldn't everyone just play the most powerful ship?. If BBs had their true power compared to DDs and cruisers, why would anyone play anything but a BB. Concealment was included in the game to give the smaller ships a chance. No real wargame would have such a thing. But in those games, players usually control squadrons or whole fleets.

smaller ships would ships should attack in squadrons like real life. if they gave carriers there real power and the planes they would be the dominate force and it. if the give the ships there real attributes it would force team work. how ever nothing any game does is going to make every one happy

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13
[GDYC]
Members
14 posts
1,243 battles
On 4/26/2022 at 2:03 PM, Sabot_100 said:

Submarines would never be involved in a fleet action like the game represents. They might snipe ships coming and going to that fleet action but not while the guns are firing. Did WW2 subs even have separate attack and normal scopes? 

They are too slow to stalk a surface ship at high speed. Surfacing in daylight (which includes all the battles here) would be suicide. It would be pure chance if they were in the right spot at the right time. They needed time to set up their shot. Their torps were generally slow. (OK, all IRL torps were slower than their ingame counterparts but sub torps were on the slow side of normal)

Any periscope spotted, any sonar contact, is an enemy sub and would be dealt with accordingly. In game friendly fire has been turned off. IRL, not so much.

I am a submarine Veteran Joined the navy before i joined the other 2 branches . getting old sucks lmbo

Germans where the only ones with guided torpedo's and they where Wire guided and after about 3k the wire was done the French and Japanese's at the time had better Submarines and some monster ones as well that where better than US submarines. and im one of those people who dont want a red highlight above my boat you should have hunt for the enemy just highlight allies. do away with the invisible crap . but hey thats just me

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,129
[CVA16]
Members
8,381 posts
25,477 battles
2 hours ago, DILLGAF_MF said:

Germans where the only ones with guided torpedo's and they where Wire guided and after about 3k the wire was done the French and Japanese's at the time had better Submarines and some monster ones as well that where better than US submarines.

I know the Germans had some acoustic torps. They were supposed to home in on the engine noises. These had to be slow so that the noise of the torps own motor wouldn't drown out the target ship. Their targets had to be really slow (merchantmen). Unfortunately for the UBoats, the allies figured them out pretty quick and would tow noisemakers. Nothing like the warp speed, lead calculating, sonar guided versions in game.

The French and IJN subs could certainly be bigger. They were not really superior at doing what subs were supposed to do compared to the contemporary US boats. The US torps sucked big time at the start of WWII, but the subs were OK.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
146 posts
12,800 battles

Also subs need to be allowed to stay underwater longer in one session- even at a minute longer , otherwise the gameplay is similar to that of a DD.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13
[GDYC]
Members
14 posts
1,243 battles
On 4/28/2022 at 1:22 AM, HoboCadet said:

Also subs need to be allowed to stay underwater longer in one session- even at a minute longer , otherwise the gameplay is similar to that of a DD.  

submarines should be able to stay submerged from the beginning because even WWI subs could stay under for 48hrs and WWII 78HRS give or take. and with the changes coming in the next test submarines are going to have a much of a chance of surviving the game. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13
[GDYC]
Members
14 posts
1,243 battles
On 4/22/2022 at 4:40 PM, DILLGAF_MF said:

 Subj: Submarines

                                  To whom it may concern I am a Submarine Qualified Veteran, You have made submarines to weak and easy to see in the game. I understand you want balance, How ever your completely castrating the Subs. If its ok I would like to make some suggestions.  One of the most crazy things you have going on is there can be a Sub submerged across the circles we capture A.B.C. Etc. and a Destroyer right next to it. You can see the Submarine but you cannot see the Destroyer its invisible.  That would never happen even with best camouflage no ship will be invisible.The Submarine should be highlighted in Black or grey and the oil slicks are should be what makes them visible. Not red. The following list of things and how to make them more fair.

1.       Make the Subs highlighted as above. How subs where found is Noise so as the submarine takes damage to the aft sections then make them engines knock or rattle let surface ships use passive sonar that can give direction of the noise but not distance. Then they can ping and use active sonar find them allow air craft to drop buoys that are passive and some that are active as consumables to also find Subs. That’s how it works in the real world. You would gain a submarine community support and players if you did it like that, Now the submarine should have passive sonar that gives direction the same as surface ships because Subs very very rarely use active sonar because noise is the biggest enemy of a Submarine.  Keep the pings but let that give away the position of the sub.

2.       Next problem is submerge time. Even WW1 Subs could stay Submerged for 48 hours so the short time your allowed to be submerged is not even close to real. Solution is add consumables like an Oxygen scrubber, allow a submarine say 4 for tier 6. 6 for tier 8 and 10 for tier 8 just for example. If they are take damaged and run out then force the submarine to surface or snorkel for the remainder of the match. If they choose to snorkel show black or grey smoke coming from the snorkel.

3.       Same principles for batteries if they take damage force the sub to snorkel to recharge them. Now Subs are easy to kill one of things you can do for balance  is if the Submarine takes flooding damage to the batteries, That would be the equivalent as a ship Taking around to a Magazine and the Sub should explode. The premise would be when the Batteries take on salt water they make  hydrogen gas. Then BOOM. 

4.       Submarines in combat would never raise more than the attack scope in combat. So the only masts that should be up is attack periscope unless it takes damage then it would be the mains scope the mains scope is bigger. And if there snorkeling the snorkel. Snorkels is a big mast.There for a submarine if air scrubbers or batteries are not damaged should be able to stay submerged indefinitely during the game because the game is simulated hours not days.

5.       Torpedoes, in real life to sink the HMS Royal oak was 6 torpedo’s that being said 3 hit the bow second salvo missed 3rd salvo 3 hit a midships. So you should beef up the torpedo’s. say tier 6  say 12 to sink a battleship for example tier 8, 9 and tier 10 5-6 just an example but on the same not if any torpedoes hit the screw the ship should be dead in the water of it hits the rudder the spin in a circle. Etc. 

Well these are just a few ideas that I Feel would make subs more realistic while maintaining balance. Oh just a note torpedo’s where wire guided in ww 1 and 2 and only only the Germans starting in ww2 had wire guided torpedos and there was no such thing as a homing torpedoes until after the 1950s starting with the mk27 if I remember right

Dedicated to : USS JOHN MARSHALL SSBN 611 GOLD AND BLUE AND SSN 611

Sincerely 

Dillgaf_MF

Since there putting the 50 cals and what not they should be shooting at aircraft. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,129
[CVA16]
Members
8,381 posts
25,477 battles
56 minutes ago, DILLGAF_MF said:

submarines should be able to stay submerged from the beginning because even WWI subs could stay under for 48hrs and WWII 78HRS give or take. and with the changes coming in the next test submarines are going to have a much of a chance of surviving the game. 

Yes, let's inject reality into this. 

Tell me again what the fastest any WWII sub could go underwater and what was a typical underwater  speed for a diesel boat?

Guess the subs in game must be running their diesels underwater, which burns up all their air, cutting their submerged time to minutes, not hours.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5,073
[WOLF1]
Beta Testers
15,348 posts
22,049 battles

Thank you for sharing a very interesting read.

As others have said game balance is a thing we must address. This is a historically based shooter arcade game. Getting them in game is exciting trying to make them historically accurate is not going to be a thing just like the rest of the ship types. None of them are historically accurate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13
[GDYC]
Members
14 posts
1,243 battles
2 hours ago, paradat said:

Thank you for sharing a very interesting read.

As others have said game balance is a thing we must address. This is a historically based shooter arcade game. Getting them in game is exciting trying to make them historically accurate is not going to be a thing just like the rest of the ship types. None of them are historically accurate.

 

2 hours ago, paradat said:

Thank you for sharing a very interesting read.

As others have said game balance is a thing we must address. This is a historically based shooter arcade game. Getting them in game is exciting trying to make them historically accurate is not going to be a thing just like the rest of the ship types. None of them are historically accurate.

thats goes for the same with all the wargaming games. i play them all and i [edited] in all of them, but far as balance there. they make super bots out of DDs making them invisible when there just yards away. they have submarines at such a disadvantage its ridicules. ill just agree to disagree again if they just made ships wand tanks planes or what ever what they had in life then you would have use Tactics and it would force team work . but it is what it is. NO MATTER what THEY DO there someone will be offended. you cant make any one happy.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13
[GDYC]
Members
14 posts
1,243 battles
3 hours ago, paradat said:

Thank you for sharing a very interesting read.

As others have said game balance is a thing we must address. This is a historically based shooter arcade game. Getting them in game is exciting trying to make them historically accurate is not going to be a thing just like the rest of the ship types. None of them are historically accurate.

But they dont need to castrate the submarine. Subs are at a disadvantage just being a submarine there getting ridicules with it. of they where all that cornered with balance the germane and American subs would have the same dive time and same capabilities like i said in my original peace its only my opinion. Its my experience with wargaming they really don't care with what we think. The only thing they care about is there bottom line .  you all be well and safe  hope you guys will be blessed this year

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13
[GDYC]
Members
14 posts
1,243 battles

The Subs are nerfed so bad I no longer care. if there not going to do them right then don't do them.  people don't like subs because they don't like change the destroyers are  to broken. The people in charge need to grow a pair and do what they want. if the cry tits wanna leave let them go because others will take there place.. its getting as bad here as it is on blitz   yall be safe 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×