Separation of Economy from Camos Discussion Thread

[Ahskance]

Hello everyone!

In just a few moments, a DevBlog will be dropping which will explain how we are separating the Economic Aspects from Camouflages!  The DevBlog is Not Small and comes with spreadsheets and tools that you can use to see what sort of conversion would happen for you (if you want to enter in all of your inventory to the tool!)

The DevBlog post is here: https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/254151-devblog-318-separating-economic-bonuses-from-visual-customizations/

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I'll be on hand for the next hour or two so I can answer questions~

[Braak]

So for those of us who have a ton of permanent camos for ships how are we compensated? Are the ships we have permanent camos for given a free permanent economic boost? I read through the blog post a few times and couldn’t find the answer, maybe I missed it.

[dechion]

After reading the devblog I am liking the way this sounds.

I do have a question however @Ahskance, will it be necessary to purchase the economic bonuses for a given ship before getting the visual camo at a discount?

It would also be nice if some of the existing single use camos could be purchased as a permanent visual.

[dechion]

3 minutes ago, Braak said:

So for those of us who have a ton of permanent camos for ships how are we compensated? Are the ships we have permanent camos for given a free permanent economic boost? I read through the blog post a few times and couldn’t find the answer, maybe I missed it.

If I understood correctly the ships with permanent camos now would recieve a permanent economic going forward. Not sure about visuals, but I assume that the permanent visual would stay as well (and likely count as your discounted one for future purchase purposes).

I could be wrong however.

[Ahskance]

3 minutes ago, Braak said:

So for those of us who have a ton of permanent camos for ships how are we compensated? Are the ships we have permanent camos for given a free permanent economic boost? I read through the blog post a few times and couldn’t find the answer, maybe I missed it.

A ship that has a Permanent Camo will receive a "Permanent Economic Boost" which will be treated as an "always on baseline increase".

If a player has multiple Permanent Camos with different economic boosts, they will each be noted and accounted for during the Conversion into the "Permanent Economic Boost" that will stay with that ship.

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After the conversion, you can choose to purchase the Permanent Economic Boost without purchasing a Camo as it will be offered separately if the player would like.

[Ahskance]

2 hours ago, dechion said:

After reading the devblog I am liking the way this sounds.

I do have a question however @Ahskance, will it be necessary to purchase the economic bonuses for a given ship before getting the visual camo at a discount?

It would also be nice if some of the existing single use camos could be purchased as a permanent visual.

Correction: Your purchase the first Perma-Visual for a reduced amount regardless of if you purchase the Permanent Economic Bonus for the ship or not.

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Expendable Camo uses will be available for Credits if you'd prefer the variety.  They can still be earned from Combat Missions or events, too.

[dechion]

1 minute ago, Ahskance said:

At current, you would purchase the Permanent Economic Boost for the ship first, and then buy the Permanant Camo of your choice with a discount from buying the Permanent Economic Boost.  The discount only applies to the first Permacamo purchased.

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Expendable Camo uses will be available for Credits if you'd prefer the variety.  They can still be earned from Combat Missions or events, too.

Thanks.

Another question is how will unassigned permanent camos fit into this? I'm currently sitting on a tier 8 Halloween one and about to get two tier 9 ones from the epochs campaign/collection. 

[Wolfswetpaws]

16 minutes ago, Braak said:

So for those of us who have a ton of permanent camos for ships how are we compensated? Are the ships we have permanent camos for given a free permanent economic boost? I read through the blog post a few times and couldn’t find the answer, maybe I missed it.

And +1

[DrHolmes52]

10 minutes ago, dechion said:

Thanks.

Another question is how will unassigned permanent camos fit into this? I'm currently sitting on a tier 8 Halloween one and about to get two tier 9 ones from the epochs campaign/collection. 

Excellent question.  I haven't used one of these yet.

[ArIskandir]

1. I still haven't tried the calculator but from what I read I'm assuming that once converted the system will stock you with X number of bonuses of the highest tier and then fill the remaining value with lower tier bonuses (for clarification I'm using 'tier' to signify each of the 4 indicated levels of bonuses). 

2. There will by a time extension during which we will be able to "split" bonuses into the corresponding lower "tier" bonuses. After that time expires, it won't be possible to split the existing bonuses. 

3. As currently exist, the system allows players to fuse bonuses (camo and multiple signals) as needed or desired by stacking the desired signals. I understand "fusion" of existing bonuses will no longer be possible, for example I won't be able to fuse 2 tier 3 bonuses into one tier 4 bonus. 

4. After the initial converted stock of tier 3 and 4 bonuses is exhausted, it is stated such bonuses will be extremely rare to obtain, and no longer obtainable by "fusion" of smaller, easier to obtain bonuses (as is the case now). This will be a huge setback. 

5. If minor bonuses can no longer be fused into higher bonuses, this change represents a very significant nerf to players economy on the medium and long term, once the initial stock of high tier bonuses is consumed, it won't be renewed. This acts against the Stated Main Goals for the Update, particularly point 4: Keep the current state of the economy.

[Ahskance]

10 minutes ago, dechion said:

Thanks.

Another question is how will unassigned permanent camos fit into this? I'm currently sitting on a tier 8 Halloween one and about to get two tier 9 ones from the epochs campaign/collection. 

After the change, you will be able to purchase "Permanent Economic Bonuses" and "Permanent Visuals".  The unassigned camos would be split into those and you would choose what ship to assign them to, similar to now.

[Ahskance]

3 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

1. I still haven't tried the calculator but from what I read I'm assuming that once converted the system will stock you with X number of bonuses of the highest tier and then fill the remaining value with lower tier bonuses (for clarification I'm using 'tier' to signify each of the 4 indicated levels of bonuses). 

2. There will by a time extension during which we will be able to "split" bonuses into the corresponding lower "tier" bonuses. After that time expires, it won't be possible to split the existing bonuses. 

When the conversion happens, you will be given the largest Bonuses, then the next largest, then the next...

Think of it like getting change from a cashier after making a purchase.  They give you large bills, then smaller bills, then change.

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We will have a way to break the bigger bonuses into smaller bonuses (if you wanted smaller bonuses across more battles instead of big bonuses)

It would be the same as breaking a $20 bill into four $5 bills.  The value is the same.

[ArIskandir]

1 minute ago, Ahskance said:

We will have a way to break the bigger bonuses into smaller bonuses (if you wanted smaller bonuses across more battles instead of big bonuses)

It would be the same as breaking a $20 bill into four $5 bills.  The value is the same.

Is this going to be a permanent feature or a temporary feature after the transition? From the Devblog reads as the later

[Ahskance]

Just now, ArIskandir said:

Is this going to be a permanent feature or a temporary feature after the transition? From the Devblog reads as the later

The armory conversion is only to exchange larger into smaller ($20 into four $5s).  It's intended to be available for a time, but if it's very popular it may remain longer or just become a permanent thing.

[Wolfswetpaws]

19 minutes ago, dechion said:

Thanks.

Another question is how will unassigned permanent camos fit into this? I'm currently sitting on a tier 8 Halloween one and about to get two tier 9 ones from the epochs campaign/collection. 

 

8 minutes ago, DrHolmes52 said:

Excellent question.  I haven't used one of these yet.

+1
Good question.
I've got a few unassigned permanent camouflages, one from the Five Epochs of the Navy campaign, and one is for a Musashi that I don't yet have (and hope to someday welcome to my Port).
This also affects the camouflages gained by exchanging "Community Tokens" for the camos in the armory.

[Wolfswetpaws]

11 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

<snip>

4. After the initial converted stock of tier 3 and 4 bonuses is exhausted, it is stated such bonuses will be extremely rare to obtain, and no longer obtainable by "fusion" of smaller, easier to obtain bonuses (as is the case now). This will be a huge setback. 

5. If minor bonuses can no longer be fused into higher bonuses, this change represents a very significant nerf to players economy on the medium and long term, once the initial stock of high tier bonuses is consumed, it won't be renewed. This acts against the Stated Main Goals for the Update, particularly point 4: Keep the current state of the economy.

Indeed (regarding point #5).

[Ahskance]

2 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

+1
Good question.
I've got a few unassigned permanent camouflages, one from the Five Epochs of the Navy campaign, and one is for a Musashi that I don't yet have (and hope to someday welcome to my Port).
This also affects the camouflages gained by exchanging "Community Tokens" for the camos in the armory.

That was answered here.

12 minutes ago, Ahskance said:

After the change, you will be able to purchase "Permanent Economic Bonuses" and "Permanent Visuals".  The unassigned camos would be split into those and you would choose what ship to assign them to, similar to now.

[Ahskance]

17 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

4. After the initial converted stock of tier 3 and 4 bonuses is exhausted, it is stated such bonuses will be extremely rare to obtain, and no longer obtainable by "fusion" of smaller, easier to obtain bonuses (as is the case now). This will be a huge setback. 

5. If minor bonuses can no longer be fused into higher bonuses, this change represents a very significant nerf to players economy on the medium and long term, once the initial stock of high tier bonuses is consumed, it won't be renewed. This acts against the Stated Main Goals for the Update, particularly point 4: Keep the current state of the economy.

The only way to achieve the massive heights of full stacked bonuses is to fully stack bonuses.

In the current system that means using a Spring Sky or Asian Latern camo, which is already very rare.  Then to additionally stacks Dragon flags, each of which is also rare.

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Applying the largest bonus of a type is representative of having a fully stacked game with the best Camos and Flags all available for that type. 

Large single bonuses are still expected to exist, but just be very rare similar to how Spring Sky and Asian Lantern camos are now.

[landcollector]

I have no problems with the current camo and bonuses system, so I don't get why the effort was made for this reworking when it wasn't needed.  Also, I do not agree with the decision to remove the 4% dispersion debuff on shells being fired at your ship.  With the overall accuracy and lethality of higher tier ships, that 4% could be the difference between either shells missing or just overpens/normal pens and getting devstruck by multiple citadels.

[Jakob_Knight]

So, if I understand all the doublespeak in the article correctly ( Bonus to XP only affects base XP now, but somehow bonuses to Commander and Free XP are all over the article...and Elite XP is completely excluded from any bonuses whatsoever), a ship with a service reduction camo now will, after implementation of the change, not pay anything more in service costs if it does no damage and expends no ammo during a game.  I will hold WG to that.

 

Edit:. And what is the deal with the Russian graphics to show the interface?  How does that help anyone but the Russian playerbase understand anything, especially when WG isn't -supposed- to have a Russian playerbase anymore?

 

 

[Zarroc1]

Are the visual components of camo going to expendable or will they be permanent?

[theLaalaa]

1 minute ago, landcollector said:

I have no problems with the current camo and bonuses system, so I don't get why the effort was made for this reworking when it wasn't needed.

They gave the reason for this rework in the middle of the third paragraph:

Quote

When we started working on the popular idea of separating the economic bonuses from the visuals....

The rework is because such a great number of players wanted it to happen ("popular").

I guess we asked for it.

[DrHolmes52]

9 minutes ago, Ahskance said:

The only way to achieve the massive heights of full stacked bonuses is to fully stack bonuses.

In the current system that means using a Spring Sky or Asian Latern camo, which is already very rare.  Then to additionally stacks Dragon flags, each of which is also rare.

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Applying the largest bonus of a type is representative of having a fully stacked game with the best Camos and Flags all available for that type. 

Large single bonuses are still expected to exist, but just be very rare similar to how Spring Sky and Asian Lantern camos are now.

I pick up 15 dragon camos every week.  Is that going to change?

[landcollector]

Just now, theLaalaa said:

They gave the reason for this rework in the middle of the third paragraph:

The rework is because such a great number of players wanted it to happen ("popular").

I guess we asked for it.

Must have been that silent majority that is often referenced that doesn't pay attention to the forums, reddit, facebook, social media in general, etc.

[Wolfswetpaws]

5 minutes ago, Jakob_Knight said:

So, if I understand all the doublespeak in the article correctly ( Bonus to XP only affects base XP now, but somehow bonuses to Commander and Free XP are all over the article...and Elite XP is completely excluded from any bonuses whatsoever), a ship with a service reduction camo now will, after implementation of the change, not pay anything more in service costs if it does no damage and expends no ammo during a game.  I will hold WG to that.