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War_4_Territory

Hello new player here, a few questions about premiums!

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Hello everyone, as a new player let me first say that the prompt and knowledgeable replies to my first post with questions was awesome! so thank you for that. Today I have questions about premium ships, the armory, and ships becoming un obtainable.

First, as always I will state that being new my views and experiences are vastly different and perhaps I am not seeing the whole picture which is why I like to get input from the community and more experienced players to fill in the blanks. so I will dive into it, being new I like to traverse the forums and YouTube to learn as much as I can about different ships and their capabilities. Some ships are far more popular or talked about for their respective tiers and roles.... for example, Thunderer, Alaska, Musashi, Enterprise and maybe a few others. 

While for the most part premiums are pretty in line with their tech tree counter parts, at least I imagine that is the goal. I am completely aware that the boat is only as good as the captain behind it 99% of the time, however there are some boats as previously named above that just have advantages that are not mirrored anywhere else. I think the Thunderer is one most people like to mention. so what I am wondering is when these boats are removed because they are "too popular" or  "too powerful"...is there anything done to address the power scaling for the boats people already own? or any plan to make these boats available again for people who missed out on them?

As I said I haven't been playing long, I use the previous term "too powerful" lightly because I just don't know enough yet, but from what I have read and watched it seems some of the more experienced players feel that way about Thunderer at least, and other boats like Alaska who are a favorite for their roles/tiers. I don't know the ins and outs of how boats come and go, but it is disheartening to think as a new player I may never see some of these boats.

Another question I have is... do these boats shift around in terms of the currency used to obtain them for example is it ever possible to see a research bureau ship pop up for steel? or a steel ship for coal? 

Lastly I know every boat is different and people have different play styles or enjoy certain lines over others based on that. I am just wondering if some of these staples will ever make a return for the newer players to get a shot at adding them to their ports, who knows maybe one of them will be their new favorite. I know personally I'd love to get my hands on an Alaska, Ohio, (I know Ohio is Research bureau, but that is a tall order lol) Musashi or Thunderer. and yes I am aware the Musashi is essentially a Yamato. :)   Anyway, thanks again everyone! :cap_like:

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Hi Welcome again to the Forums 

1. Old premium ships were sold (when sold) under certain clauses, so WG can't (more likely won't) nerf them directly or may be accused of bait and swap. Newer Premium ships are stated explicitly as being subject to changes so the "vanished" premium ship is likely to be a not so frequent issue in the future as they could be "adjusted" and there'll be less need to retire them. 

2. Tho rare, there had been cases of ships changing currency like Black and Neutrashimy going from Steel to Coal. 

3. Some "retired" ships can make a comeback as Black (Friday offer) version. Most are gone for good but can still be aquired through SC/Snowflakes, this requieres inordinate ammounts of luck and/or money.

Cheers

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Thanks! That is kind of sad to hear, considering the strength and the cool factor some of those boats have. the thought of not getting a shot at them is unfortunate, especially since a lot are already out in the wild.

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2 minutes ago, War_4_Territory said:

Thanks! That is kind of sad to hear, considering the strength and the cool factor some of those boats have. the thought of not getting a shot at them is unfortunate, especially since a lot are already out in the wild.

Well, never say never. Missouri return sets a precedent. There's also the Lighthouse (auction house) wild card. But honestly, the chances of you laying hands over a Thunderer are very small. Better be on the lookout for the next "too popular" "soon to be removed" premium ship.

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19 minutes ago, War_4_Territory said:

Thanks! That is kind of sad to hear, considering the strength and the cool factor some of those boats have. the thought of not getting a shot at them is unfortunate, especially since a lot are already out in the wild.

As you play for a long time, you will acquire ships that will eventually be removed from the shop and will become "rare".  Eventually some player will come along years from now and make this same post.  Wanting some ships that you have, that they can't. 

Missing some ship you wanted happens to all of us.  I have most of the "rare" ships but a few I either wasn't playing at the time or for some dumb reason, decided I didn't want at the time.  Some examples include Champagne (which isn't technically rare....but it is) and Smaland.

These are ships that I want but will likely never have.  Such is WoWs.  On the same token, you can get ships that are "close" to them if you want want to.  In my case I was able to pickup Bordino, which is "sort of" like Champ, but isn't of the same league really.  I was able to snag Ragnar though.  While not the same playstyle as Smaland, it can certainly send them to bottom if played well.

I also was able to pickup Marceau, which is more a direct competitor to Smaland.  Again, they are different, not the same, but you can get ships that can give rare ships, a run for their money.

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1 minute ago, Burnsy said:

As you play for a long time, you will acquire ships that will eventually be removed from the shop and will become "rare".  Eventually some player will come along and make this same post.  Wanting some ships that you have, that they can't. 

Missing some you wanted happens to all of us.  I have most of the "rare" ships but a few I either wasn't playing at the time or for some dumb reason, decided I didn't want at the time.  Some examples include Champaign (which isn't technically rare....but it is) and Smaland.

The are ships that I want but will likely never have.  Such is WoWs.  On the same token, you can get ships that are "close" to them if you want want to.  In case I was able to pickup Bordino, which is "sort of" like Champ, but isn't of the same league.  I was able to snag Ragnar though.  While not the same playstyle as Smaland, it can certainly send them to bottom if played well.

 I understand what you are saying from a collectors point of view...but some ships Just straight up perform better.  so much better they are removed, and go unchanged from a technical point to bring them in line with other ships that are live.

that is where the confusion is for me... then its almost a pay to win situation and some people missed out on their chance lol or at least that is what it seems like to me, and I could be very wrong.

It seems like there are very few examples where this is the case, which is good. but they still exist. I get it nothing is perfect, and I am sure WG had to find a balance with introducing certain premiums so there was bound to be a few slip ups, as it was previously stated you don't want a bait and switch situation. now premiums have the fine print to address balance issues in the future, so that is a plus. 

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54 minutes ago, War_4_Territory said:

Hello everyone, as a new player let me first say that the prompt and knowledgeable replies to my first post with questions was awesome! so thank you for that. Today I have questions about premium ships, the armory, and ships becoming un obtainable.

First, as always I will state that being new my views and experiences are vastly different and perhaps I am not seeing the whole picture which is why I like to get input from the community and more experienced players to fill in the blanks. so I will dive into it, being new I like to traverse the forums and YouTube to learn as much as I can about different ships and their capabilities. Some ships are far more popular or talked about for their respective tiers and roles.... for example, Thunderer, Alaska, Musashi, Enterprise and maybe a few others. 

While for the most part premiums are pretty in line with their tech tree counter parts, at least I imagine that is the goal. I am completely aware that the boat is only as good as the captain behind it 99% of the time, however there are some boats as previously named above that just have advantages that are not mirrored anywhere else. I think the Thunderer is one most people like to mention. so what I am wondering is when these boats are removed because they are "too popular" or  "too powerful"...is there anything done to address the power scaling for the boats people already own? or any plan to make these boats available again for people who missed out on them?

As I said I haven't been playing long, I use the previous term "too powerful" lightly because I just don't know enough yet, but from what I have read and watched it seems some of the more experienced players feel that way about Thunderer at least, and other boats like Alaska who are a favorite for their roles/tiers. I don't know the ins and outs of how boats come and go, but it is disheartening to think as a new player I may never see some of these boats.

Another question I have is... do these boats shift around in terms of the currency used to obtain them for example is it ever possible to see a research bureau ship pop up for steel? or a steel ship for coal? 

Lastly I know every boat is different and people have different play styles or enjoy certain lines over others based on that. I am just wondering if some of these staples will ever make a return for the newer players to get a shot at adding them to their ports, who knows maybe one of them will be their new favorite. I know personally I'd love to get my hands on an Alaska, Ohio, (I know Ohio is Research bureau, but that is a tall order lol) Musashi or Thunderer. and yes I am aware the Musashi is essentially a Yamato. :)   Anyway, thanks again everyone! :cap_like:

hey man, welcome to forums. as far as my philosophy about premiums ships goes, I view them as it's cool if get one. 

Edited by josh14735
sleep deprived.

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13 minutes ago, War_4_Territory said:

 I understand what you are saying from a collectors point of view...but some ships Just straight up perform better.  so much better they are removed, and go unchanged from a technical point to bring them in line with other ships that are live.

that is where the confusion is for me... then its almost a pay to win situation and some people missed out on their chance lol or at least that is what it seems like to me, and I could be very wrong.

It seems like there are very few examples where this is the case, which is good. but they still exist. I get it nothing is perfect, and I am sure WG had to find a balance with introducing certain premiums so there was bound to be a few slip ups, as it was previously stated you don't want a bait and switch situation. now premiums have the fine print to address balance issues in the future, so that is a plus. 

It's a difficult situation for WG.  It used to be sort of an "unofficial" thing that WG didn't nerf premium ships.  The EULA always said they could, but they were very reluctant to directly nerf "OP" ships, for fear of player backlash from those who had already paid money for them.  So their solution to that was to remove them from further sale.  I think the idea is that they would become fewer and fewer over time, as the players that have them will eventually thin out.

Now, all new premiums have an official disclaimer on them, at the point of sale, that they can be nerfed.  While they always could, technically, they have made it known "officially" that they have decided that they will. WG is still likely to "remove" some of them just the same though, because FOMO (fear of missing out), is a strong sales driver for humans.

WG is faced with walking a fine line that all "free to play" devs face.  Keeping the players happy, while keeping an income flowing.

Side note: for whatever it is worth, Thunderer has been nerfed in the past and it might be again in the future.  It is not a premium ship, it is a "special" ship (it was available for free, using coal).  Even before the change to premiums, specials were publicly known to be up for nerfs.

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30 minutes ago, Burnsy said:

WG is faced with walking a fine line that all "free to play" devs face.  Keeping the players happy, while keeping an income flowing.

Side note: for whatever it is worth, Thunderer has been nerfed in the past and it might be again in the future.  It is not a premium ship, it is a "special" ship (it was available for free, using coal).  Even before the change to premiums, specials were publicly known to be up for nerfs.

Yeah it is a tough act to balance, I have no doubts. being a f2p game dev probably feels like walking on ice a lot of times. that is good to know that it was balanced or that they will step in if it is too much of a noticeable impact on the game. 

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Thuderer did get nerfed before being removed.  It went from Pigpen dirty to average 7 year old boy dirty, but they did knock it down some.

The rest, yeah they are kind of a problem.  

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3 hours ago, War_4_Territory said:

Thunderer, Alaska, Musashi, Enterprise

Wellcome!

Well, i have been here for about two years, and was able to get Thunderer and Alaska (also Georgia and some others), but not Musashi (and others like Smolensk). If you play the game for some time, you will get lots of ships for free.

2 hours ago, Burnsy said:

pickup Marceau

2 hours ago, ArIskandir said:

Better be on the lookout for the next "too popular" "soon to be removed" premium ship.

I guess these are the best advices you can have: there are some very good ships available, get these while you can. Ohio, Marceau, Salem, Ragnar, Bourgogne...

Edited by lbfreitasBR

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3 minutes ago, lbfreitasBR said:

guess these are the best advices you can have: there are some very good ships available, get these while you can. Ohio, Marceau, Salem, Ragnar...

Oh Ragnar is a goner for sure

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Yeah, I will actually have enough coal shortly for my first coal ship, I was going to get Kearsarge but being that is fairly new perhaps I should pick up something else.  so according to the wiki assuming it isn't out of date, you can get all of those ships aside from the Thunderer and Ohio in super containers...at a very low chance. is that true?

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4 hours ago, War_4_Territory said:

that is where the confusion is for me... then its almost a pay to win situation and some people missed out on their chance lol or at least that is what it seems like to me, and I could be very wrong.

P2W is impossible in this game due to shell/torpedo mechanics. Before Wargaming limited split-tier divisions, people used to bring regular, tech-tree, low tier Japanese destroyers in with Yamatos and stomp higher-tier teams.

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26 minutes ago, black_hull4 said:

P2W is impossible in this game due to shell/torpedo mechanics. Before Wargaming limited split-tier divisions, people used to bring regular, tech-tree, low tier Japanese destroyers in with Yamatos and stomp higher-tier teams.

that was me... ohhh how fun that was :Smile_playing:

edit - they also reworked the low tier dd's. lowered torp distance and increased detect range.

Edited by Retarie

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1 hour ago, War_4_Territory said:

Yeah, I will actually have enough coal shortly for my first coal ship, I was going to get Kearsarge but being that is fairly new perhaps I should pick up something else.  so according to the wiki assuming it isn't out of date, you can get all of those ships aside from the Thunderer and Ohio in super containers...at a very low chance. is that true?

If you click on the armory in game, then click on the community token icon on the left (the pic below), then click on the supercontainer reward....THEN scroll down in the ship list and click on the link that says "61 ships in total", it will show you everything that can drop from a super container. 

Community token icon, in armory:

image.png.b33de6328033db6af933f1368acfbd12.png

 

Note that super containers are not Santa Crates.  Santa Crates roll around once per year (at Christmas) and have a chance to drop every rare ship.  While it is true, the do do it and people do get them, buy them with the knowledge that the chance is very low (the odds will be noted when you buy them).  The vast majority will not drop a ship, no less a rare ship.

If I was brand new and I was going to get my first coal ship, knowing what I know now about the game, I would choose the one that would be most useful to me....or the one that I think is most likely to be pulled from the shop next. 

Note 1: By most useful, I mean for getting missions done or comfort in grinding CaptainXP, FreeXP and credits. Most useful does not mean the "best" ship available, in terms of what is the current hot meta. 

Note 2: Everyone's opinion is different and it heavily depends on what ship class that you like to play best (right now, this will likely change over time).

Most useful: Salem, Yoshino, Kearsarge, Marceau. (If CVs are your thing Immelmann is a very solid CV and will serve you well)

If I had to pick one and only one......that's rough and everyone is going to have a different answer, but I think it would be Salem for me.  It's just a really well rounded cruiser.  Also it's a Des Moines with some changes (that are not bad changes, many would argue that they prefer it over DM) and DM is just a legendarily good cruiser in this game that has stood the test of time.

Most likely to be pulled next (my opinion, which means next to nothing):  Marceau, Kearsarge.  Both of these are very good choices aside from the fact that I think they are likely to be pulled. Marc is the oldest of the two (and so in theory, more likely to be pulled first.  There is no guarantee of that though, or that it even ever will be.  WG does weird stuff sometimes).


 

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9 minutes ago, Burnsy said:

If you click on the armory in game, then click on the community token icon on the left (the pic below), then click on the supercontainer reward....THEN scroll down in the ship list and click on the link that says "61 ships in total", it will show you everything that can drop from a super container. 

Community token icon, in armory:

image.png.b33de6328033db6af933f1368acfbd12.png

 

Note that super containers are not Santa Crates.  Santa Crates roll around once per year (at Christmas) and have a chance to drop every rare ship.  While it is true, the do do it and people do get them, buy them with the knowledge that the chance is very low (the odds will be noted when you buy them).  The vast majority will not drop a ship, no less a rare ship.

If I was brand new and I was going to get my first coal ship, knowing what I know now about the game, I would choose the one that would be most useful to me....or the one that I think is most likely to be pulled from the shop next. 

Note 1: By most useful, I mean for getting missions done or comfort in grinding CaptainXP, FreeXP and credits. Most useful does not mean the "best" ship available, in terms of what is the current hot meta. 

Note 2: Everyone's opinion is different and it heavily depends on what ship class that you like to play best (right now, this will likely change over time).

Most useful: Salem, Yoshino, Kearsarge, Marceau. (If CVs are your thing Immelmann is a very solid CV and will serve you well)

If I had to pick one and only one......that's rough and everyone is going to have a different answer, but I think it would be Salem for me.  It's just a really well rounded cruiser.  Also it's a Des Moines with some changes (that are not bad changes, many would argue that they prefer it over DM) and DM is just a legendarily good cruiser in this game that has stood the test of time.

Most likely to be pulled next (my opinion, which means next to nothing):  Marceau, Kearsarge.  Both of these are very good choices aside from the fact that I think they are likely to be pulled. Marc is the oldest of the two (and so in theory, more likely to be pulled first.  There is no guarantee of that though, or that it even ever will be.  WG does weird stuff sometimes).


 

good advice, so the length of time at which they have been in the shop has no bearing on if it will be pulled or not?

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3 minutes ago, War_4_Territory said:

good advice, so the length of time at which they have been in the shop has no bearing on if it will be pulled or not?

It.....generally....does?  Lol, that is to say that it often does, but....sometimes WG does unexpected stuff.  They have randomly pulled ships that have been "meh" and around forever.  They have also put ships up for a short amount of time and were never/rarely ever seen again.

As a "general rule", they tend to give people a good long time to get a ship and they tend to give lots of warning before they pull one....but it's not set in stone and they once in a while break their own norm.  I think the just like to keep people on their toes, for FOMO.  So nothing is "really" guaranteed.

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Oh, also I forgot to add to the list of "useful" coal ships, a ship that I will get some flak for recommending, which is Pommern.  Pom get's a lot of flak (from players, not it's actual AA, which is not good) because it tends to be not that competitive.  It's also often said to be played by "noobs" often, because it can take a beating and it's forgiving if you yolo into a mess.  The other side of the coin though, is that it gives up being super impactful to the match, for that forgiveness.  All these things are true.

The reason I would recommend it though as a useful ship, in getting missions etc done quickly, is somewhat BECAUSE of that durability and the fact that it also has good secondaries and torps.  Secondary ribbons, fires set, torp hits and floods, are all common mission requirements and it can do all of those things (some of them better in coop).  It's durability means that it can also put up with situations that a more "meta" ship would not put up with and fold under.  Which helps get those mission requirements met.

I am going to get flamed for this post, but it is true.  It's not an uber competitive ship, but it is a ship that will be a work horse and get missions done.  Also...BBs with torps are fun.

If you are looking for something to give you an edge in say ranked though and you care less about things like missions...go back to looking at Salem, Marc etc.

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3 hours ago, Burnsy said:

I am going to get flamed for this post, but it is true.  It's not an uber competitive ship, but it is a ship that will be a work horse and get missions done.  Also...BBs with torps are fun.

If you are looking for something to give you an edge in say ranked though and you care less about things like missions...go back to looking at Salem, Marc etc.

No flaming from me! I like to get as many opinions as possible. for some insight I currently have USN bb's up to Iowa and Just got Des Moines the other night she is very fun. US DD's to Benson and IJN dd's to Akatsuki (I love torps). recently started toying with Mino line, got to Fiji and really like that line as well. Also have the IJN cruiser line down to Mogami. 

I plan on working toward Yamato for my next like of bb's after I finish off Montana. I remember first looking at all the tech trees and feeling overwhelmed. I thought wow this is going to be a horrible grind of a game, but I fell in love and now I am all over the place trying all the lines that seem interesting and for the moment it doesn't feel like a grind at all.  

As far as ranked goes I am currently in qualifiers for silver...I do spend a lot of time there if I'm not grinding lines, I enjoy the lesser amount of boats. I think that is why I am so interested in the boats I originally listed in this thread, they just seem like better versions of everything I am working towards. Also looking forward to the Black coming back.

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7 hours ago, lbfreitasBR said:

 

I guess these are the best advices you can have: there are some very good ships available, get these while you can. Ohio, Marceau, Salem, Ragnar, Bourgogne...

Eh, I don't see the Salem going anywhere any time soon; it's been available for forever. It's one of the oldest coal ships still in the game.

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10 hours ago, DrHolmes52 said:

It went from Pigpen dirty to average 7 year old boy dirty,

:Smile_trollface::Smile_veryhappy:

2 hours ago, Zaydin said:

Eh, I don't see the Salem going anywhere any time soon; it's been available for forever. It's one of the oldest coal ships still in the game.

The fact that she's so similar to her sister-ship, the tech-tree Des Moines (and slightly inferior in certain respects), is probably what's saved her. 

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One thing that I would say is that if you are economizing on what you buy, get Premiums that harmonize with your lines so that the captains you are training up for the line work well with your Premium ships. Also, Tier VIII is a sweet spot for earnings. 

Edited by Pugilistic

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21 minutes ago, Pugilistic said:

One thing that I would say is that if you are economizing on what you buy, get Premiums that harmonize with your lines so that the captains you are training up for the line work well with your Premium ships. Also, Tier VIII is a sweet spot for earnings. 

T9 premiums earn more credits than T8 premiums.  In addition, you are T9 facing T10, instead of T8 facing T10.

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1 hour ago, Burnsy said:

T9 premiums earn more credits than T8 premiums.  In addition, you are T9 facing T10, instead of T8 facing T10.

But then, T9 are facing superships (T11) now so...  it feels about the same as T8 VS T10, IMHO.

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