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jones_farragut_nimitz

Question: About CVs and Unsporting Conduct Warnings and Penalty?

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Is this an Error or is it working as intended?  Just thought I would ask because I am not sure what is going on?

There is a dockyard mission running about shooting down 99 planes while playing CV.  I am trying to do this mission.  

So here is the question(s).  I am playing CV in coop and I am laser focusing in on this mission to get 99 planes.   In one game I completely ignore attacking ships with my planes and only drop fighters to try to shoot down planes. I did nothing unsporting to any ships.

Then after the game I get a message stating that I have engaged in unsporting conduct and I am given a warning.  All my xp and credits for the game are taken away.

So I guess that this must be because I did no damage to ships.

A couple games later I played my Graf Zepp in coop.  I move forward to get secondary damage while I fly around dropping fighters to shoot down planes.  I get some secondary hit damage.  I think that I am ok because I did damage to enemy ships.  I did nothing unsporting to any ships

But I get another notice that I have done unsporting conduct - game credits and xp gone and this time a penalty is applied to me and I turn pink!  :-)   

I think what is going on??

Does this mean that when playing a CV (even in coop) you must get some damage to enemy ships with your planes or else you get an unsporting conduct warning/penalty?

Thanks for any help with this.

 

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1 minute ago, jones_farragut_nimitz said:

Does this mean that when playing a CV (even in coop) you must get some damage to enemy ships with your planes or else you get an unsporting conduct warning/penalty?

Thanks for any help with this.

Yes, it does seem our Anti-Abuse System was recently tuned to see a 0 Damage CV game as bizarre enough to be triggered.  So please make sure you get a least some damage onto an enemy ship with your planes before you chase after enemy planes!

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Just now, Ahskance said:

Yes, it does seem our Anti-Abuse System was recently tuned to see a 0 Damage CV game as bizarre enough to be triggered.  So please make sure you get a least some damage onto an enemy ship with your planes before you chase after enemy planes!

Ok, I will do that in the future!  :-)

 Thank you very much for the info!

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1 hour ago, Ahskance said:

Yes, it does seem our Anti-Abuse System was recently tuned to see a 0 Damage CV game as bizarre enough to be triggered. 

Even if you use guns? Considering most of the German carriers are really heavy cruisers with armor suitable for planes to land on...

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2 hours ago, Ahskance said:

Yes, it does seem our Anti-Abuse System was recently tuned to see a 0 Damage CV game as bizarre enough to be triggered.  So please make sure you get a least some damage onto an enemy ship with your planes before you chase after enemy planes!

This is excellent! Thank you for the update, great news to learn they have tuned it. Assuming the tuning applies to Random Battles as well.

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2 hours ago, Ahskance said:

Yes, it does seem our Anti-Abuse System was recently tuned to see a 0 Damage CV game as bizarre enough to be triggered.  So please make sure you get a least some damage onto an enemy ship with your planes before you chase after enemy planes!

that just doesn't seem right in my opinion

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2 hours ago, Ahskance said:

Yes, it does seem our Anti-Abuse System was recently tuned to see a 0 Damage CV game as bizarre enough to be triggered.  So please make sure you get a least some damage onto an enemy ship with your planes before you chase after enemy planes!

This is not right, and you know it. If shooting down large numbers of planes isn't a battle contribution, I don't know what is.

The anti-abuse system needs retuning! If it means the occasional once-in-a-blue-moon AFK carrier somehow effectively deplanes a pair of Kagas with its auto-cap and AA through sheer dumb luck (to go for the most hyperbolic example) and escapes penalty, well, so be it. Those happenings are sufficiently rare to be discarded as outliers. Let anyone that lucky have their rewards!

Edited by Ensign_Cthulhu
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13 minutes ago, arch4random said:

 

that just doesn't seem right in my opinion

I picture it primarily being instituted due to people using similar tactics in Random Battles to get combat missions done quicker. The reality is that the missions were designed to get people to play the game more, and pick up the rewards for actually playing the game, with the 11 other players on their team and 12 reds. 
When someone wants to “game the system” (or “abuse” it) and sails the one friendly CV their team has straight ahead to get “secondary hits”, it really wastes the rest of their team’s time and is a case study in selfish behavior. And I see this happen every time there is a dockyard event, in the various classes and mission parameters. 

The equation is much different in Coop, as the faster they get sunk, the more points I get. But if to fix the abuse in Randoms, the fix affects Coop, so be it. But my thought is that there is nothing wrong with allowing this in coop and not in Randoms. It’s literally more fun and easier to do in Coop, it’s just a lot of people don’t think about it.

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9 minutes ago, SuperComm4 said:

I picture it primarily being instituted due to people using similar tactics in Random Battles to get combat missions done quicker. The reality is that the missions were designed to get people to play the game more, and pick up the rewards for actually playing the game, with the 11 other players on their team and 12 reds. 
When someone wants to “game the system” (or “abuse” it) and sails the one friendly CV their team has straight ahead to get “secondary hits”, it really wastes the rest of their team’s time and is a case study in selfish behavior. And I see this happen every time there is a dockyard event, in the various classes and mission parameters. 

The equation is much different in Coop, as the faster they get sunk, the more points I get. But if to fix the abuse in Randoms, the fix affects Coop, so be it. But my thought is that there is nothing wrong with allowing this in coop and not in Randoms. It’s literally more fun and easier to do in Coop, it’s just a lot of people don’t think about it.

As an Anti-Abuse system, it's more for catching bad-actors.  CVs are an exceedingly accurate class as the planes get quite close to their enemy before they attack. 

While a completely 0 Damage game could theoretically happen through normal course of play, the % of the time in which it DOES happen is small enough that having the Abuse system track it is valuable.

-

In general, if you are playing a CV in a Co-Op, Random, or other match... you should be able to take a moment to simply do some damage to an enemy ship at some point.  That's a very low bar to avoid issue.

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1 hour ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

This is not right, and you know it. If shooting down large numbers of planes isn't a battle contribution, I don't know what is.

i have to agree ...should not be giving out pink slips for this or confiscating a players credits ,xp ,fxp 

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4 hours ago, jones_farragut_nimitz said:

Is this an Error or is it working as intended?  Just thought I would ask because I am not sure what is going on?

There is a dockyard mission running about shooting down 99 planes while playing CV.  I am trying to do this mission.  

So here is the question(s).  I am playing CV in coop and I am laser focusing in on this mission to get 99 planes.   In one game I completely ignore attacking ships with my planes and only drop fighters to try to shoot down planes. I did nothing unsporting to any ships.

Then after the game I get a message stating that I have engaged in unsporting conduct and I am given a warning.  All my xp and credits for the game are taken away.

So I guess that this must be because I did no damage to ships.

A couple games later I played my Graf Zepp in coop.  I move forward to get secondary damage while I fly around dropping fighters to shoot down planes.  I get some secondary hit damage.  I think that I am ok because I did damage to enemy ships.  I did nothing unsporting to any ships

But I get another notice that I have done unsporting conduct - game credits and xp gone and this time a penalty is applied to me and I turn pink!  :-)   

I think what is going on??

Does this mean that when playing a CV (even in coop) you must get some damage to enemy ships with your planes or else you get an unsporting conduct warning/penalty?

Thanks for any help with this.

 

Very specifically, damage from secondary batteries doesn't count, on any ship for the purposes of not being AFK..

It's there to keep someone from sitting AFK, and something gets close enough to them to get hit by a secondary and give them credit for the match.

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3 hours ago, Ahskance said:

As an Anti-Abuse system, it's more for catching bad-actors.  CVs are an exceedingly accurate class as the planes get quite close to their enemy before they attack. 

While a completely 0 Damage game could theoretically happen through normal course of play, the % of the time in which it DOES happen is small enough that having the Abuse system track it is valuable.

-

In general, if you are playing a CV in a Co-Op, Random, or other match... you should be able to take a moment to simply do some damage to an enemy ship at some point.  That's a very low bar to avoid issue.

There is nothing "valuable" about this!  Shooting down planes is actively playing the game and contributing to your team.  This is just lazy programing and bad game mechanics on WG's part.

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Well this is a fascinating scenario. I now know a 0 dmg CV game will be interpreted by the game as unsporting.

On one hand, in normal environments, a 0 dmg CV game would happen because either 

A) The CV is too busy griefing the other CV (not good) or;

B) The CV is AFK, which naturally would trigger an unsporting behavior warning.

The (A) scenario makes sense in Randoms, as that's a bit of a [edited] move, and provides nothing to the larger battle taking place. (yeah yeah technically shooting down aircraft is "contributing" to the battle, but while you're tea-bagging the poor Ranger who just wanted to play the game in your Chad Bearn, you could be killing other ships, securing flanks, spotting DD's, keeping your team alive? You know, the whole point of the game?)  Flagging that as unsporting feels justified, at least to me.

On the other hand, the part that doesn't make a whole lot of sense is that it triggers in Co-op. The one game mode that you are really able to either turn your brain off completely and do really dumb stuff you otherwise couldn't (like gun-shipping in a CV), and farm ribbons without the headache of Random Battle teams. It's a little strange to me it would flag that in Co-op at all. Eh, maybe it's a limitation of the Anti-abuse. Who knows?

I just feel like it shouldn't trigger in Co-op at all. Doesn't seem right in principle. Nobody is being greifed by a CV in co-op fixating on a bot CV to complete a mission. Just like nobody is being greifed when a Des Moines is farming Citadels and refuses to shoot BB's in Co-op. It's the same thing at the end of the day. Farming is Farming.

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4 hours ago, Halonut24 said:

Flagging that as unsporting feels justified, at least to me.

You can call that bad play if you like, and you may be right; the issue here is that it's being flagged as zero-contribution, as if the CV player just walked away from the keyboard - which is clearly not the case.

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9 hours ago, Ahskance said:

 

In general, if you are playing a CV in a Co-Op, Random, or other match... you should be able to take a moment to simply do some damage to an enemy ship at some point.  That's a very low bar to avoid issue.

Ehhhh, I'll take issue with this. If n CoOp I play my CV for spotting damage, or planes shot down, or secondary hits or whatever why should I be REQUIRED to make an attack run on ships?

Personally I am not a very good CV player and have plenty of no hit attack runs. CoOp matches are short enough I shouldn't have to "waste" one or more just to get damage.

As someone said above, this is just lazy programming. 

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12 hours ago, Ahskance said:

As an Anti-Abuse system, it's more for catching bad-actors.  CVs are an exceedingly accurate class as the planes get quite close to their enemy before they attack. 

While a completely 0 Damage game could theoretically happen through normal course of play, the % of the time in which it DOES happen is small enough that having the Abuse system track it is valuable.

-

In general, if you are playing a CV in a Co-Op, Random, or other match... you should be able to take a moment to simply do some damage to an enemy ship at some point.  That's a very low bar to avoid issue.

what's bogus about this >>>>wows is getting into the "playbook" of players ..maybe a cv isn't very good at sending rockets into the sides of an enemy ship but is very good with his planes when it comes to shooting down enemy planes , this is being useful ...

if you want to catch "bad actors" and people who are "throwing" games in competitive play i suggest >>> only 1 account per player  in any competitive mode ...

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Does it mark a 0 damage games in other ships as unsportsmanlike also?   

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5 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

You can call that bad play if you like, and you may be right; the issue here is that it's being flagged as zero-contribution, as if the CV player just walked away from the keyboard - which is clearly not the case.

Yeah, I suppose it technically is, only because "AFK" is lumped in with "unsporting conduct" when it really should be a completely separate flag with it's own set of criteria.

The anti-abuse system is really over-simplified, come to think of it. Way too broad for the number of possible "abuses" we could see.

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1 hour ago, AnimaL21 said:

Does it mark a 0 damage games in other ships as unsportsmanlike also?   

very excellent question.

How many times have we seen a player sail off to a corner or remain stationary and AFK in spawn, do no active damage with main guns, and yet still get XP because someone got close to them for the secondaries to fire and hit.

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1 minute ago, Lord_Slayer said:

very excellent question.

How many times have we seen a player sail off to a corner or remain stationary and AFK in spawn, do no active damage with main guns, and yet still get XP because someone got close to them for the secondaries to fire and hit.

Thats one thing obviously, but I'd like to know if I am playing a torpedo boat, and get sunk outside gun range due to radar lets say, without landing any torps, am I unsportsmanlike with my 0 damage game?    


Was that reddit cv from the other day also unsportsmanlike getting sunk in the first 60 seconds before scoring damage? 

 

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Yep even in Co-Op you need to do dmg, I got disconnected awhile back and got the warning, got back in just before the game ended.

 

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Just now, dabot8 said:

Yep even in Co-Op you need to do dmg, I got disconnected awhile back and got the warning, got back in just before the game ended.

It was never just about damage though, you also had to sail a certain distance etc.   Maybe that still applies and OP just didnt move because it was coop, and it was more the lack of movement coupled with the zero damage that led to the sanction? 

 

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14 hours ago, SgtBeltfed said:

Very specifically, damage from secondary batteries doesn't count, on any ship for the purposes of not being AFK..

It's there to keep someone from sitting AFK, and something gets close enough to them to get hit by a secondary and give them credit for the match.

The same is true of planes shot down, particularly by a CV, given the automated nature of AA.

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18 hours ago, SuperComm4 said:

This is excellent! Thank you for the update, great news to learn they have tuned it. Assuming the tuning applies to Random Battles as well.

The jinx!

My first battle today I take a CV into a Coop battle to get the 12 spotted ribbons…RING! Goes the doorbell, and my first match resulted in this very penalty!

It was well earned as I had set a course but did 0 damage. 

The next match I got my 11 spotted while sinking 1 ship, and damaging 5 of 9. 

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2 hours ago, Helstrem said:

The same is true of planes shot down, particularly by a CV, given the automated nature of AA.

True for any ship, but the rules predated the CV rework, when planes weren't actually damaged, they were just either live or dead.

Heck, for a while, damage to planes wasn't even tracked, and it took longer for it to be rewarded at all.

Still gonna laugh at the pink support carriers though.

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