Can we have a T8 clan battle season?

[josh14735]

T10 CBs are good and all but at least try a Clan Battle season in T8.

[Boggzy]

To my knowledge there actually HAS been a T8 clan battle season.  Season 7, I think?

There have also been some competitive events at T8 including the Verizon Warrior Championship Series.

Tier 8 can be a lot of fun!  There are a few notable "problem children" at T8 that simply stack a little too well in strength and make competitive difficult.  

• Admiral Kutuzov (Range, HE spam, smoke)
• Edinburgh (smoke/radar, heal)
• Le Terrible / Fantasque (FR DD's are just sooooo strong and there aren't really any cruisers that can keep them lit while resisting 139mm HE guns using IFHE)
• Akizuki (HE smoke/spam)

At T8 the 12km radar that is often necessary to counter DD-heavy strats exists on on a handful of cruisers - all of which are so fragile that they themselves can be quickly focused down and killed by the DD"s themselves.

It's entirely possible that, with a few limitations on certain ships, that a T8 season could be viable.

[Trash_Taste_In_Waifus]

1 minute ago, Boggzy said:

To my knowledge there actually HAS been a T8 clan battle season.  Season 7, I think?

There have also been some competitive events at T8 including the Verizon Warrior Championship Series.

Tier 8 can be a lot of fun!  There are a few notable "problem children" at T8 that simply stack a little too well in strength and make competitive difficult.  

• Admiral Kutuzov (Range, HE spam, smoke)
• Edinburgh (smoke/radar, heal)
• Le Terrible / Fantasque (FR DD's are just sooooo strong and there aren't really any cruisers that can keep them lit while resisting 139mm HE guns using IFHE)
• Akizuki (HE smoke/spam)

At T8 the 12km radar that is often necessary to counter DD-heavy strats exists on on a handful of cruisers - all of which are so fragile that they themselves can be quickly focused down and killed by the DD"s themselves.

It's entirely possible that, with a few limitations on certain ships, that a T8 season could be viable.

2. First was fantasque spam and second was akizuki and fantasque spam.

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Clan_Battles

I can't look through what seasons exactly they were but from what i remember there was (not in order)

1x T5 (cant remember if clan brawl or actual season)

2x T6

2x T8

1x T7 (think this was clan brawl)

1x T9

and the rest T10

[josh14735]

39 minutes ago, Boggzy said:

To my knowledge there actually HAS been a T8 clan battle season.  Season 7, I think?

There have also been some competitive events at T8 including the Verizon Warrior Championship Series.

Tier 8 can be a lot of fun!  There are a few notable "problem children" at T8 that simply stack a little too well in strength and make competitive difficult.  

• Admiral Kutuzov (Range, HE spam, smoke)
• Edinburgh (smoke/radar, heal)
• Le Terrible / Fantasque (FR DD's are just sooooo strong and there aren't really any cruisers that can keep them lit while resisting 139mm HE guns using IFHE)
• Akizuki (HE smoke/spam)

At T8 the 12km radar that is often necessary to counter DD-heavy strats exists on on a handful of cruisers - all of which are so fragile that they themselves can be quickly focused down and killed by the DD"s themselves.

It's entirely possible that, with a few limitations on certain ships, that a T8 season could be viable.

well. i have to agree there. a either a few bans or limitations would work in this case.

 

[Crucis]

2 hours ago, Boggzy said:

To my knowledge there actually HAS been a T8 clan battle season.  Season 7, I think?

There have also been some competitive events at T8 including the Verizon Warrior Championship Series.

Tier 8 can be a lot of fun!  There are a few notable "problem children" at T8 that simply stack a little too well in strength and make competitive difficult.  

• Admiral Kutuzov (Range, HE spam, smoke)
• Edinburgh (smoke/radar, heal)
• Le Terrible / Fantasque (FR DD's are just sooooo strong and there aren't really any cruisers that can keep them lit while resisting 139mm HE guns using IFHE)
• Akizuki (HE smoke/spam)

At T8 the 12km radar that is often necessary to counter DD-heavy strats exists on on a handful of cruisers - all of which are so fragile that they themselves can be quickly focused down and killed by the DD"s themselves.

It's entirely possible that, with a few limitations on certain ships, that a T8 season could be viable.

IIRC, the real problem with the tier 8 CBs season was that gunboat DDs became the meta for the CB season, to the point that on teams of 7, you'd often see 4 or 5 DDs.  It got super boring after a short while.

Now, if WG were to put limits on the number of DDs allowed on a T8 CBs team (say, no more than 3), tier 8 CBs might become less boring and more viable.

[Number9Pounder]

2 hours ago, Trash_Taste_In_Waifus said:

2. First was fantasque spam and second was akizuki and fantasque spam.

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Clan_Battles

I can't look through what seasons exactly they were but from what i remember there was (not in order)

1x T5 (cant remember if clan brawl or actual season)

2x T6

2x T8

1x T7 (think this was clan brawl)

1x T9

 

 

more of that again yes

[Trash_Taste_In_Waifus]

1 hour ago, Number9Pounder said:

 

 

more of that again yes

No... not really. Both T6 seasons were completely garbage in the competitive scene and t8 was just chalked full of suffering. Very little competitve clans actually want to go back to t6 / 8 / 9

[YouSatInGum]

1 hour ago, Crucis said:

IIRC, the real problem with the tier 8 CBs season was that gunboat DDs became the meta for the CB season, to the point that on teams of 7, you'd often see 4 or 5 DDs.  It got super boring after a short while.

Now, if WG were to put limits on the number of DDs allowed on a T8 CBs team (say, no more than 3), tier 8 CBs might become less boring and more viable.

The no duplicate ship rule might take of some of that.  Also there are quite a few new ships that might change line ups a bit.  Smoked up Mainz or Bayard might make things interesting... and there's more high velocity stuff with Bagration totally power creeping Eugan.

I do wonder about a rule banning any ships that have been removed....ships like kutuzov and lenin would make things a bit more fair.

While I'd enjoy a T8 season,  especially since it has been 2 and a half years since, the elephant in the room is CVs.  Would they be allowed?  T8 CVs are notoriously good against same tier ships.

 

[YouSatInGum]

Just now, Trash_Taste_In_Waifus said:

No... not really. Both T6 seasons were completely garbage in the competitive scene and t8 was just chalked full of suffering. Very little competitve clans actually want to go back to t6 / 8 / 9

I enjoyed the T9 season and I think quite a few in my clan did too. 

Especially after Musashi and ga were banned.

[_Ironhorse_]

some T9 action would be great too! Time to take T10 break

[josh14735]

9 minutes ago, YouSatInGum said:

I enjoyed the T9 season and I think quite a few in my clan did too. 

Especially after Musashi and ga were banned.

 

2 minutes ago, _Ironhorse_ said:

some T9 action would be great too! Time to take T10 break

The t9 season is what got me playing CBs. that season was fun.

[josh14735]

18 minutes ago, Trash_Taste_In_Waifus said:

No... not really. Both T6 seasons were completely garbage in the competitive scene and t8 was just chalked full of suffering. Very little competitve clans actually want to go back to t6 / 8 / 9

I didn't really play the first t6 season and the second sucked because WG added the two CV rule. 

 

Also @Boggzy is the no duplicate ship rule still in effect for the next Clan battle season?

[Xiao_Meimei]

5 hours ago, Boggzy said:

To my knowledge there actually HAS been a T8 clan battle season.  Season 7, I think?

There have also been some competitive events at T8 including the Verizon Warrior Championship Series.

Tier 8 can be a lot of fun!  There are a few notable "problem children" at T8 that simply stack a little too well in strength and make competitive difficult.  

• Admiral Kutuzov (Range, HE spam, smoke)
• Edinburgh (smoke/radar, heal)
• Le Terrible / Fantasque (FR DD's are just sooooo strong and there aren't really any cruisers that can keep them lit while resisting 139mm HE guns using IFHE)
• Akizuki (HE smoke/spam)

At T8 the 12km radar that is often necessary to counter DD-heavy strats exists on on a handful of cruisers - all of which are so fragile that they themselves can be quickly focused down and killed by the DD"s themselves.

It's entirely possible that, with a few limitations on certain ships, that a T8 season could be viable.

Countering dds is not radar just; also shell velocity and engagement range. DD spam is not necessarily the strongest; it is rather one of the easiest for a moderately strong team to pull off. A team with better cruiser players could rely on cruisers with heals; especially Atago and Edinburgh. Since this season of which you speak (2019, when you were not a spokesman?) however there have been many ship releases; and game balance may have changed.

43 minutes ago, Trash_Taste_In_Waifus said:

No... not really. Both T6 seasons were completely garbage in the competitive scene and t8 was just chalked full of suffering. Very little competitve clans actually want to go back to t6 / 8 / 9

Very garbage is it? Perhaps in your clans, but fun in others. "Competitive clans" in the NA server definition are 10% of 5% of all clans; so perhaps 0.5% percent of all clans view T6/T8/T9 as "garbage" with the same mindset. Many other clans have the issue of trying to get these players together for T10 I am sure. For the perspective of sales for a game; I can wonder if the sales of T6, T8, and T9 ships increase for such a Clan Battles season. Some of the T8 ships for sale are the strongest (Cossack, Atago, Lenin, CVs). And T9 is now less useful for many modes due to the Submarines of T10 and the Superships. So a T9 season could justify the sales. Part of what makes the NA clans "competitive" is not performance. Rather it is number of games played and possession of many ships that are no longer available; or that must be purchased.

This game is not truly a competitive game. This is because not all of these ships is accessible to the player of the competitive modes. It is pay-or-grind to access. And there are limited time ships that are only accessible through chance. So pay-or-grind for the opportunity to win. It is as if characters of Dota 2 is locked behind grind and/or paywalls. And some is not even available to access anymore (Smaland, Smolensk, etc.). In order for many clans at T10 to be competitive, they must possess these ships; which makes it necessary to have active veterans. Therefore the competitive scene of this game does not easily grow.

[Trash_Taste_In_Waifus]

Just now, josh14735 said:

I didn't really play the first t6 season and the second sucked because WG added the two CV rule. 

 

Also @Boggzy is the no duplicate ship rule still in effect for the next Clan battle season?

No its not. Also the first season was basically just graf spee spam which made basically everyone want to end themselves.

Ive been playing since the first season and have played quite active in every season since then. T6 season was one of the worst tiers ever implemented for clan battles. Graf spee spam, double CV with ships that have virtually no AA and smoke cruisers everywhere. Absolute pain... T8 was alright but not a lot happened really

[Admiral_Andy]

The problem with tier 8 is that the gun boat DDs took over because the cruisers had a hard time competing since cruisers don't get heals until tier 9.  Sure there are a couple exceptions but most of the DDs worked better than the cruisers.

[Xiao_Meimei]

26 minutes ago, Trash_Taste_In_Waifus said:

No its not. Also the first season was basically just graf spee spam which made basically everyone want to end themselves.

Ive been playing since the first season and have played quite active in every season since then. T6 season was one of the worst tiers ever implemented for clan battles. Graf spee spam, double CV with ships that have virtually no AA and smoke cruisers everywhere. Absolute pain... T8 was alright but not a lot happened really

Perhaps double CV was not necessarily use. What was obvious. It seems it was a decision for sales? Graf Spee was necessary and then banned. New, overpowered CV was added mid-season (E. Loewen?) and then removed. But double BB was very popular in both NA and Asia, if I recall. Yes. Again, I think respectfully; could "everyone" be your local community of clans? These are veteran players with many assets and expectations. In my community, many people enjoyed the nature of the season; with many vanilla or coal ships such as Fushun, Dallas, and Aigle available for access. Newer player could come and quickly grind these ships to become interested in the game.

DD play was intense and there was heavy smoke use and hydro use as compared to the use of other consumables. For ships that can be purchased; in the second season the inexpensive Huanghe was available. It was nice to see finally the use of non-Soviet or American ship.

I think that veteran clans are not interested in non-T10 seasons because they do not have exclusive access to the inaccessible tools that give them dominance.

[Xiao_Meimei]

37 minutes ago, YouSatInGum said:

The no duplicate ship rule might take of some of that.  Also there are quite a few new ships that might change line ups a bit.  Smoked up Mainz or Bayard might make things interesting... and there's more high velocity stuff with Bagration totally power creeping Eugan.

I do wonder about a rule banning any ships that have been removed....ships like kutuzov and lenin would make things a bit more fair.

While I'd enjoy a T8 season,  especially since it has been 2 and a half years since, the elephant in the room is CVs.  Would they be allowed?  T8 CVs are notoriously good against same tier ships.

 

I agree more with this perspective. 

[tfcas119]

a T8 clan season could work, provided if...

1: no CVs or subs. Do I need to explain why?

2: limit the number of Akizukis and FR DDs to no more than two per team, because at this tier, most cruisers can't heal back any damage, and spamming a team full of Akis and Le Fantasque class ships would not be pretty (last T8 season proved this)

[skillztowin]

5 hours ago, josh14735 said:

Clan Battle season in T8

idealistically yes. but realistically NO.  Clans is hard enough setting strategy and tactics in motion with a team. Its the RNG difference between T8 and T10 that is the killer.   It was extremely evident in the T6 season. You could have the PERFECT play, ruined by straddling the shells of a broadside.  With T10, you have the best RNG the game brings you, the results are what they are.... T11 will be used for the same reasons.  

Keyboard grows an inch of its wings when you whiff at T6

[josh14735]

4 minutes ago, Xiao_Meimei said:

I agree more with this perspective. 

well i hope CVs aren't added in that case, though it would be funny to see the enterprise since it's the namesake of our clan.

2 minutes ago, skillztowin said:

idealistically yes. but realistically NO.  Clans is hard enough setting strategy and tactics in motion with a team. Its the RNG difference between T8 and T10 that is the killer.   It was extremely evident in the T6 season. You could have the PERFECT play, ruined by straddling the shells of a broadside.  With T10, you have the best RNG the game brings you, the results are what they are.... T11 will be used for the same reasons.  

RNG is RNG, you can't really account for it in most strategies.

[Xiao_Meimei]

12 minutes ago, skillztowin said:

idealistically yes. but realistically NO.  Clans is hard enough setting strategy and tactics in motion with a team. Its the RNG difference between T8 and T10 that is the killer.   It was extremely evident in the T6 season. You could have the PERFECT play, ruined by straddling the shells of a broadside.  With T10, you have the best RNG the game brings you, the results are what they are.... T11 will be used for the same reasons.  

Keyboard grows an inch of its wings when you whiff at T6

This is a bold statement.

The reduction of RNG also gave us the CV + Petro/Venezia/Stalingrad + Halland/Smaland seasons; which were in my experience the worsts in the game. Hakuryu, or a CV with fast planes hides behind a paywall/grindwall (MvR, M. Immelman) and became necessary. The team that detects first 

the ship lagging behind, AA-on DD, or out of place quickly killed this ship with fast-detection planes, extreme accurate drops, and very fast "the railgun" shells. The game was decided; the teams move on to the next game. It is the rinse-repeat boring meta.

 

I ask, why is Tier 10 and/or the Superships more varieties than the T8 or T9 metas? T10 and Superships is low variation. There is much variety at these other tiers (T8, T9), which could be bring to fruition by the developers' unique rules.

[Trash_Taste_In_Waifus]

25 minutes ago, Xiao_Meimei said:

Perhaps double CV was not necessarily use. What was obvious. It seems it was a decision for sales? Graf Spee was necessary and then banned. New, overpowered CV was added mid-season (E. Loewen?) and then removed. But double BB was very popular in both NA and Asia, if I recall. Yes. Again, I think respectfully; could "everyone" be your local community of clans? These are veteran players with many assets and expectations. In my community, many people enjoyed the nature of the season; with many vanilla or coal ships such as Fushun, Dallas, and Aigle available for access. Newer player could come and quickly grind these ships to become interested in the game.

DD play was intense and there was heavy smoke use and hydro use as compared to the use of other consumables. For purchasable ships; in the second season the inexpensive Huanghe was available. It was nice to see finally the use of non-Soviet ship.

I think that veteran clans are not interested in non-T10 seasons because they do not have exclusive access to the inaccessible tools that give them dominance.

Your vastly mistaken to think double BB was actually that popular. Also a few things:

1. Erich wasn't released mid season, no cv was.

2. Double cv's still existed and were still quite broken even after they removed ryujo and erich Lowedenhardt.

3. Decision for sales? Not sure what thats supposed to mean as the first season was literally right after everyone got graf spee for free.

4. Veteran clans do not need exclusive access to tools or ships because we have something called "skill"

 

[Number9Pounder]

27 minutes ago, Trash_Taste_In_Waifus said:

No its not. Also the first season was basically just graf spee spam which made basically everyone want to end themselves.

Ive been playing since the first season and have played quite active in every season since then. T6 season was one of the worst tiers ever implemented for clan battles. Graf spee spam, double CV with ships that have virtually no AA and smoke cruisers everywhere. Absolute pain... T8 was alright but not a lot happened really

 

 

I agree that six season was a complete disaster of Clan battles

 

Graf Spee was a huge source of the problem which resulted in a very painful experience for everyone

[Xiao_Meimei]

11 minutes ago, Trash_Taste_In_Waifus said:

Your vastly mistaken to think double BB was actually that popular. Also a few things:

1. Erich wasn't released mid season, no cv was.

2. Double cv's still existed and were still quite broken even after they removed ryujo and erich Lowedenhardt.

3. Decision for sales? Not sure what thats supposed to mean as the first season was literally right after everyone got graf spee for free.

4. Veteran clans do not need exclusive acess to tools or ships because we have something called "skill"

 

I do agree about Graf Spee, because the ship-banning system was not used correctly; Graf Spee was killer of balance.

As for #4; you do have access to exclusive ships. Black, Smaland, Smolensk, Thunderer, Ohio, Stalingrad, Ragnar, Marceau (lesser so now)... etc.. The list goes on. A new player purchasing the game either needs hundreds or even thousands of dollars and good timing and luck with containers to acquire these ships. Or they need to spend hundreds of hours playing the game to access the full variety. Or if they are re-released, then they must quickly grind the various in-game currencies such as coal to acquire them. (Black for example) Consider the twice-a-year Steel coupon system. The Research Points system. These are not cheap mechanics for ship unlocks. Then there are new ships that are released; often with OP characteristics. Do you remember German CV or Venezia? A player must be playing endlessly, or purchase doubloons for fast Free XP conversion to access this ship to be prepared.

A totally competitive game has the vehicles, weapons, or characters accessible to everyone. Competitive games include Counterstrike, Dota 2, Starcraft, etc.. I am sorry, but World of Warships is not a competitive video game in the same sense as these games.

In addition; consider how veterans have stockpiled in-game resources or currencies. They can access the new ship with a button. A newer player who has the skill that you speak of cannot quickly put their skill to use; unless they have money.

Do not confuse access to ships with skills to succeed in game. Many player play cross-server from Asia and easily wins against NA clan, even without such paywall ships. "Strong clans" on this server are often conglomerate of veteran player with access to every ship. And they will play hundreds of games to achieve what can be done in dozens of games by other clans, in a Clan Battles mode. Such statistics are viewable in API.

[Trash_Taste_In_Waifus]

Just now, Xiao_Meimei said:

I do agree, because the ship-banning system was not used correctly; Graf Spee was a balance-killer.

As for #4; you do have access to exclusive ships. Black, Smaland, Smolensk, Thunderer, Ohio, Stalingrad, Ragnar, Marceau (lesser so now)... etc.. The list goes on. A new player purchasing the game either needs hundreds or even thousands of dollars and good timing and luck with containers to acquire these ships. Or they need to spend hundreds of hours playing the game to access the full variety. Or if they are re-released, then they must quickly grind the various in-game currencies such as coal to acquire them. (Black for example) Consider the twice-a-year Steel coupon system. The Research Points system. These are not cheap mechanics for ship unlocks.

A totally competitive game has the vehicles, weapons, or characters accessible to everyone. Competitive games include Counterstrike, Dota 2, Starcraft, etc.. 

In addition; consider how veterans have stockpiled in-game resources or currencies. They can access new ships with a button. A newer player who has the skill that you speak of cannot quickly put that skill to use; unless they have money.

Plenty of other people have access to these ships aswell. OP ships as you describe arn't even needed to win for most half decent clans. Most could win a match with completely inferior ships simply because of better strats, calling and skill in a ship. OP ships means nothing in terms of how strong a clan can be