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MN1234

Radio Silence Mode

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I have an idea for a new battle mode. Whether occasional or permanent.

What do you think of a mode, played in the dark, where there is a complete communications blackout.

You don't know where the enemy is until you get close enough to actually see them. 

There would still be capture points so if you hide, you lose.

I think it would be a really fun, hilarious and exiting.

It would also have a side effect of forcing players to fight and not hide.

I know this is in its raw state so please give feedback and suggestions.

Thanks!

 

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In the past.. Anything having to do with "in the dark" or "night" settings/scenarios... Haven't lived up to player's expectations...

Day time with weather affects may be a good substitute for "in the dark" idea..


With the amount of power creep in the game... I dont think its feasible having close combat as how we want it..

Worth a shot anyway..

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3 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

In the past.. Anything having to do with "in the dark" or "night" settings/scenarios... Haven't lived up to player's expectations...

Day time with weather affects may be a good substitute for "in the dark" idea..


With the amount of power creep in the game... I dont think its feasible having close combat as how we want it..

Worth a shot anyway..

I wasn't too sure about the nighttime aspect. You make a good point.

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51 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

In the past.. Anything having to do with "in the dark" or "night" settings/scenarios... Haven't lived up to player's expectations...

Day time with weather affects may be a good substitute for "in the dark" idea..


With the amount of power creep in the game... I dont think its feasible having close combat as how we want it..

Worth a shot anyway..

Pride, I disagree (if it really is a disagreement) on the night battles thing.  I think that the problem is that WG/players expect too much or try to force too much into the night battles concept, rather than trying to do it more simply.  I've long said that Night battles should be structured as follows.  Make them like cyclones (i.e. limited view range) but have a duration that lasts for the entire battle.  The view range could be as low as 6-8 km or up around 13-15 km (so that it exceeds radar range).  I wouldn't make the lower limit of view range below 6 km because it would risk making the longest ranged hydro be like radar.  Oh, and I'd include a darkened skybox, since it is night time after all.

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14 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Pride, I disagree (if it really is a disagreement) on the night battles thing.  I think that the problem is that WG/players expect too much or try to force too much into the night battles concept, rather than trying to do it more simply.  I've long said that Night battles should be structured as follows.  Make them like cyclones (i.e. limited view range) but have a duration that lasts for the entire battle.  The view range could be as low as 6-8 km or up around 13-15 km (so that it exceeds radar range).  I wouldn't make the lower limit of view range below 6 km because it would risk making the longest ranged hydro be like radar.  Oh, and I'd include a darkened skybox, since it is night time after all.

That's kind of the idea behind radio silence. No one would be able to communicate with their team. It would come down to situational awareness and team work. No one would be able to just sit back and hide.

It wouldn't be hide and seek. The caps would be the focal points.

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So basically in daylight, you would be turning off team spotting. You can only see what YOU can see.

Would this apply to allies too? Would your mini-map show allied postions (but not what they can see)?

Difference  between this and standard low vis conditions is that you could still see a BB firing its guns at 20K IF you had line of sight.

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6 minutes ago, Sabot_100 said:

So basically in daylight, you would be turning off team spotting. You can only see what YOU can see.

Would this apply to allies too? Would your mini-map show allied postions (but not what they can see)?

Difference  between this and standard low vis conditions is that you could still see a BB firing its guns at 20K IF you had line of sight.

Exactly.

Yes it would apply to all players. Mini-map would only show you the ships you actually see.

You would be able to see that a ship is firing and in what direction they are firing from but you would have to remember that position as the ship itself would be unseen.

Perhaps there could be an allowance for sailors using hand held signals and signal lights to spread info? Of course, only ships nearby would get the info and have to pass it on. So maybe the mini-map could show ships you are constantly being updated on through signals and such?

Edited by MN1234

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1 hour ago, MN1234 said:

That's kind of the idea behind radio silence. No one would be able to communicate with their team. It would come down to situational awareness and teamwork. No one would be able to just sit back and hide.

It wouldn't be hide and seek. The caps would be the focal points.

I have no problem with ships using radios to broadcast their locations to teammates, as long as they only show up on the mini-map and NOT the HUD.  As for not being able to sit back and hide, that would depend on the visual range of night battles.  If the Vrange was limited to 6-8 km, it could be pretty damned brutal for some ships such as cruisers, longer ranged gunboat DDs, and sniping BBs. 

OTOH, if the Vrange was closer to 13-15 km, all surface combat ships would be in reasonably decent shape.  Oh, cruisers might feel a bit put upon, but I'm not sure that there's much that can be done about that.

One thing that concerns me a little about night battles is map size.  I wonder if night battles should occur on smaller maps for their tier.   With large maps, you may not know where the enemy is and could waste a lot of time scouting for the enemy.  Sure, if you're in a carrier battle, your team's CV can do the scouting.  But without CVs to scout, you're left with DDs or even cruisers (preferably low concealment CLs) to do the scouting, and of course that can be rather risky.

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5 minutes ago, Crucis said:

I have no problem with ships using radios to broadcast their locations to teammates, as long as they only show up on the mini-map and NOT the HUD.  As for not being able to sit back and hide, that would depend on the visual range of night battles.  If the Vrange was limited to 6-8 km, it could be pretty damned brutal for some ships such as cruisers, longer ranged gunboat DDs, and sniping BBs. 

OTOH, if the Vrange was closer to 13-15 km, all surface combat ships would be in reasonably decent shape.  Oh, cruisers might feel a bit put upon, but I'm not sure that there's much that can be done about that.

One thing that concerns me a little about night battles is map size.  I wonder if night battles should occur on smaller maps for their tier.   With large maps, you may not know where the enemy is and could waste a lot of time scouting for the enemy.  Sure, if you're in a carrier battle, your team's CV can do the scouting.  But without CVs to scout, you're left with DDs or even cruisers (preferably low concealment CLs) to do the scouting, and of course that can be rather risky.

Good point. Map size would definitely have to be considered, especially with the visual limitations.

Remember, you would only see ships you can see with your eyes, or your sailors that is. Use of signal flags and spotlights to communicate would be it.

Radio silence means you cannot use your radios.

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1 hour ago, MN1234 said:

No one would be able to communicate with their team.

It happens in Random already!

Try to get the team to be a team and communicate! :-)

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19 minutes ago, cammaj said:

It happens in Random already!

Try to get the team to be a team and communicate! :-)

Lol, I know.

My idea behind this mode is it that if you don't communicate (through contact), you die.

Meaning you have to be able to paly together because that's the only way you will know what the other ships see. You have to stick together.

Edited by MN1234
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1 hour ago, MN1234 said:

Good point. Map size would definitely have to be considered, especially with the visual limitations.

Remember, you would only see ships you can see with your eyes, or your sailors that is. Use of signal flags and spotlights to communicate would be it.

Radio silence means you cannot use your radios.

MN, please note that I'm not arguing in favor (or against) a radio silence mode.  I've been talking about night battles.  In night battles, you'd still be able to see what teammates see, as long as those enemies were in your visual range.

Another point.  Regarding radio silence, one should consider that this should affect the Radio Location skill since you can hardly triangulate enemy ships base on their radio usage if they're not using their radios in the first place.  Also consider that (realistically speaking) if one uses radar (a form of radio) the enemy should be able to at least radio locate the radar using ship, though using the visual range numbers I suggested in my simplified night battles ideas above, any radar using ship may be in visual range of the (depending on the range used).  I will say though, so long as radar ships can use their radar safely behind island cover, they wouldn't be seen, but radio location should work against a radar set that's in use even if hidden behind an island.

 

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3 minutes ago, Crucis said:

MN, please note that I'm not arguing in favor (or against) a radio silence mode.  I've been talking about night battles.  In night battles, you'd still be able to see what teammates see, as long as those enemies were in your visual range.

Another point.  Regarding radio silence, one should consider that this should affect the Radio Location skill since you can hardly triangulate enemy ships base on their radio usage if they're not using their radios in the first place.  Also consider that (realistically speaking) if one uses radar (a form of radio) the enemy should be able to at least radio locate the radar using ship, though using the visual range numbers I suggested in my simplified night battles ideas above, any radar using ship may be in visual range of the (depending on the range used).  I will say though, so long as radar ships can use their radar safely behind island cover, they wouldn't be seen, but radio location should work against a radar set that's in use even if hidden behind an island.

 

They would have to relay their info by signal flags or signal light so the info would go from one ship, to the nearest ships, and so on.

I didn't take what you said as being argumentative. I apologize if I came across that way.

I want feedback both positive and negative.

Besides, you raised a very good point.

Edited by MN1234

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On 4/16/2022 at 1:56 PM, MN1234 said:

Exactly.

Yes it would apply to all players. Mini-map would only show you the ships you actually see.

You would be able to see that a ship is firing and in what direction they are firing from but you would have to remember that position as the ship itself would be unseen.

Perhaps there could be an allowance for sailors using hand held signals and signal lights to spread info? Of course, only ships nearby would get the info and have to pass it on. So maybe the mini-map could show ships you are constantly being updated on through signals and such?

Also what if...
⁍ Spotting consumables make you more detectable in some way
⁍ Distress beacons (A consumable that alerts both friend and foe alike to your location)
⁍ Torpedos are slowed down as to not make them OP in this new gamemode (Helstem, 4/17/22)

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6 minutes ago, GHmath123_2020 said:

Also what if...
⁍ Spotting consumables make you more detectable in some way
⁍ Distress beacons (A consumable that alerts both friend and foe alike to your location)
⁍ Torpedos are slowed down as to not make them OP in this new gamemode (Helstem, 4/17/22)

They main idea behind my suggestion is to keep players from sitting back the entire game.

If you hide, you lose.

Your suggestions would definitely need looking into though.

 

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anyway, what do you think of my ideas? 

i'm playing u-69 in game rn so sorry if i don't reply

 

Edited by GHmath123_2020

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50 minutes ago, GHmath123_2020 said:

⁍ Torpedos are slowed down as to not make them OP in this new gamemode (Helstem, 4/17/22)

No... torpedoes should retain their speed and accuracy.  The limiting factor will be a lack of the aim indicator.  You're firing blind at where you think the enemy is located and going because you can't actually see him.

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1 hour ago, GHmath123_2020 said:

anyway, what do you think of my ideas? 

i'm playing u-69 in game rn so sorry if i don't reply

 

I think your ideas a good and do need to be visited if this mode ever gets to move into reality.

They may or may not turn out to be relevant but a mode like this needs to give players some advantage if they play the game right.

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58 minutes ago, michael_zahnle said:

No... torpedoes should retain their speed and accuracy.  The limiting factor will be a lack of the aim indicator.  You're firing blind at where you think the enemy is located and going because you can't actually see him.

wdym? line pointing outwards but no spread indicator? or just no aimer altogether?

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7 hours ago, GHmath123_2020 said:

wdym? line pointing outwards but no spread indicator? or just no aimer altogether?

Welcome to the forum.

When you aim torpedoes at a target you get a spread indicator and a highlighted wedge indicating where the ship should be when the torpedoes reach it (after pressing X).  You line the two up and if nothing changes with course and speed of the target, you should score a hit.  I'm suggesting that that be eliminated in this battle mode.

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