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tm63au

Still Not Convinced Of The Suicide Flavour For Italian Destroyers

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Been playing these ships in Coop to get handle on them but its easy when your playing BOTS that more or less charge  in a straight line.

And while the Tier 9 Paolo Emilio was a novelty ship that fooled many players early on, its basically like the one trick pony Asashio the difference however this ship has long range torpedoes and can be played with different game play.

 

The new Tech tree ships have short range guns and while some say the SAP is deadly in gun fights with other DD's there is the issue of detection.

 

Your seen before you see your enemy, the smoke don't last long enough and the speed boost likewise.

 

Only die hard Leeroy Jenkins players are going to find any value in these ships. 

 

WG  trying to recreate MAS Boats with DD's will not work, sure there fun in Coop against slow moving  BOT BB's but players are going to work these ships out very soon and this will become a very low priority line of played ships.

 

WG needs to give ships more Gun range or longer smoke and or speed boost.

 

 151-mas-boat | Model warships, Warship model, Model boats

WG this is a MAS Boat

 

 

Update 0.11.2: Italian Destroyers. Part 1 | World of Warships

 

These are not MAS Boats

 

 

And this is what will happen more and more and more frequently when you try to use Destroyers as MAS Boats.

 

 

 

      

Edited by tm63au
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There's been very little talk about these DDs, to include even the recent Premium DD whatever-its-name-is that came out with the Early Access event.

 

There's been more talk about the Pan Asia CLs than these things, and the PACLs aren't exactly a line of widely appealing ships.  Even French Destroyers when they were new garnered a lot of discussion because they were the first DD Line with no smoke.

 

I think WG did a swing and a miss with this line, but we'll see.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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21 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

I think WG did a swing and a miss with this line

And there in lies the problem, WG has been swinging and missing far to many times lately.

When was the last competitive line produced and I am not talking about OP or high quality, just competitive from Tier 4 to 7, not many maybe German Battlecruisers, ( but they were nerfed still like them though) maybe one or two others out of the past 8 ?.

Of course they make certain Tier 9 and 10 are good.

To many stupid gimmicks, look there will always be a ship with better detection but Italian DD's gun range is woeful at Tier 7 its 7.5  my tier 5's have longer range.

Besides a expert DD Tier 5 player wont even need to fire his guns against them, by the time the Italian player sees the Tier 5 he will be dead from torpedoes in most cases.  

 

 

 

  

     

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German Battlecruisers were a good release.  IMO one of the best in years.  The previous BB Line release were the Italians, and WG beat those poor boys down hard.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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I don’t do the suicide run play style of yolo Emilio on the tech tree ships. Yolo can do it because the torps hit so damn hard and it has better consumables.

While the ships aren’t terrible, their not great either(at least as far as the V-VII is concerned). The torps are stealthy but the damage and speed are so bad that they don’t really do a whole lot. The guns only do well if you run exclusively SAP. The HE is alright but the poor rate of fire and range make using them not worth using(other DDs have HE shells that do more damage with a higher rate of fire and effectively more consistent dpm).

They play best as gun boats spamming weakly armoured targets(ships with thick armour will defeat your the sap shells and he as well). The bone I have to pick with them is mainly in their consumables. The IX and X remedy this but don’t fix it. The speed boost is effectively one of the worst in the game. It lasts for 25s and reloads in 160s(worse is that you spend 15 of those seconds just getting to your boosted top speed(this is from top speed on activation)), the French by comparison last for 120s and reload in 120s. You get a (almost)5x longer duration and shorter reload while only losing 5% speed. I’d even take the run of the mill speed boost over the Italian speed boost, better overall utility. The smoke is okay but I feel like it would be better if it lasted 30s and had an extra charge. If they reduced the reload on the speed boost to 90s reload and 30s action time, that would help considerably.

Also their AA is legitimately the worst yet, even the Japanese aren’t as bad as the Italians AA(which says a lot when your AA is worse than the worst). Bottom line their basically very gimped Italian cruisers in terms of gameplay. They can be good against destroyers if they get the drop on them, but if you win those trades it will often cost you(depending on how good the rng is on your dispersion). I honestly think the IX and X are the only two ships in the whole line to be interested in.

I plan to finish the line, but I’m not sure if any will get a permanent place in my port.

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I'm not sure what the whole line is like but I know in Emilio I can run in to torp range, fire, and get back out of detectable range all within the smoke screen. No yolo required.

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Yeah it's tough

the gun range is very poor, reload speed is slow and consumable action time is very short with a long reload.

they are fun but need some love.  they should have tighter turning circles and shorter rudder shift time if they are to be close range gunfighters

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7 hours ago, John_Crace said:

I'm not sure what the whole line is like but I know in Emilio I can run in to torp range, fire, and get back out of detectable range all within the smoke screen. No yolo required.

the difference here is that you're supposed to use your guns, but you get detected first, only have 3 smokes, and it doesn't last long

the gun range is so short that you must get into suicide distance to shoot, but you get detected early and only a few smokes with short action time are there to save you

the DPS is not good enough for the few safe windows of attack you have with such short range, and neither is the HP

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You have to take the, 20% in gun range skill, and pick your targets. You can to PT boat style runs when needed but I would recommend holding that tactic until mid to late game. Harras the other DD and curses until then two salvos then try and go dark again 

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This line is like a worse French line that relies on gimmicks. Sure you can chase down DDs but will be outspotted, like French. Your short range makes it so you can go dark but leaves you trying to farm dmg at range with slow weak torps. At the higher tiers 12.5km radar neuters these things further. Give me a Marceau or Kleber over these gimmick boats any day of the week. The Pan Asian cruisers and these are too situational to interest me.

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11 hours ago, tm63au said:

The new Tech tree ships have short range guns and while some say the SAP is deadly in gun fights with other DD's there is the issue of detection.

Agree 101%. I was in the T6 Italian DD and engaged an American DD (no choice)....once we got 7km (SEVEN) apart, he continued to hit me, while my shells fell in the water short. 

This line is not a gunboat, torp boat, or hybrid. It's just BAD.

Edited by brewakeg
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10 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

I think WG did a swing and a miss with this line, but we'll see.

9 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

The previous BB Line release were the Italians, and WG beat those poor boys down hard.

Underwhelming Italian ships are becoming a WoWs tradition. At least Italian cruisers (the tech-tree ships, not the premiums) are solid. :Smile_sceptic:

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30 minutes ago, Nevermore135 said:

At least Italian cruisers (the tech-tree ships, not the premiums) are solid.

Napoli would disagree.

But  I found most of the cruiser line pretty meh or worse. 

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48 minutes ago, Sabot_100 said:

Napoli would disagree.

But  I found most of the cruiser line pretty meh or worse. 

But Napoli isn’t a premium, is she? :Smile_trollface:

I was actually really just making a reference to the old Italian CL premiums being widely considered poor-to-mediocre. The mistake WG has made with Italian tech tree ships is that they have leaned very hard into the same gimmicks across all three lines: SAP and exhaust smoke. The latter works fine in all its iterations, but the insistent on SAP has caused problems, particularly for the battleships. WG was/is deathly afraid of the potential of large-caliber SAP that can overmatch armor, and as a result the Italian BB line gave up way too much for access to the ammunition. Cruiser-caliber SAP occupies the sweet spot where it is potent, but doesn’t have the potential to be OP to the point that everything else about the ship needs to be sacrificed to rein it in.

Edited by Nevermore135

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I just bought the T8 today and sailed her once.  I got 2 kills using the Yolo Emilio style of play, but her smoke was way too short.  I am assuming that this line will be the same as all the other lines of late:  Poor T5-T7, fair T8, good T9, and a very good T10.

I started grinding DDs about a year and a half ago as I was not a DD player.  Some I liked, some I didn't, but the Emilio style of play just struck a chord in me and I enjoy it, so I am hoping a few of these ships play similarly.

 

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4 minutes ago, Nevermore135 said:

But Napoli isn’t a premium, is she? :Smile_trollface:

I was actually really just making a reference to the old Italian CL premiums being widely considered poor-to-mediocre. The mistake WG has made with Italian tech tree ships is that they have leaned very hard into the same gimmicks across all three lines: SAP and exhaust smoke. The latter works fine in all its iterations, but the insistent on SAP has caused problems, particularly for the battleships. WG was/is deathly afraid of the potential of large-caliber SAP that can overmatch armor, and as a result the Italian BB line gave up way too much for access to the ammunition. Cruiser-caliber SAP occupies the sweet spot where it is potent, but doesn’t have the potential to be OP to the point that everything else about the ship needs to be sacrificed to rein it in.

Napoli is a premium.  Venezia is the T10 tech tree for the Italians.  Both are very good ships.

For the older ships (D'Acosta, Abruzzi, Gorizia I would agree that they are poor to average (Abruzzi is not that bad).

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Techtree line of Italian dds have less YOLO vibe than the Paolo Emilio. Honestly it's not too bad.

 

10 minutes ago, kyesac said:

Napoli is a premium.  Venezia is the T10 tech tree for the Italians.

I believe Napoli is not categorized as a "Premium ships" by WG's stands. Premium ships are sold in Cash and Doubloon. Napoli is obtained in Armory for Coal. I believe that are categorized as "Special Ships"

Edited by VVoony

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22 minutes ago, kyesac said:

Napoli is a premium.  Venezia is the T10 tech tree for the Italians.  Both are very good ships.

Technically, she’s not. She’s a special ship, which possess different economy than premium ships and have their own filter in port. Many people lump them together as “premiums,” though, hence my trolly response above.

Regardless, Napoli is a good ship. The main reason I didn’t reference her in my original post is that I forgot about her, and was thinking about the older Italian CL premiums and Gorizia.

12 minutes ago, VVoony said:

I believe Napoli is not categorized as a "Premium ships" by WG's stands. Premium ships are sold in Cash and Doubloon. Napoli is obtained in Armory for Coal. I believe that are categorized as "Special Ships"

Yes and no. Yoshino B is a special ship and has been sold for cash. The fundamental difference between the two types of ships is the details of their improved economy: premium ships earn extra credits, while special ships have reduced service costs instead. There are also Early Access ships, which are temporarily classified as “special,” but have no economic bonuses as far as I’m aware. There are also no tier X premium ships - they’re all either tech tree or special.

Edited by Nevermore135

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12 hours ago, tm63au said:

WG needs to give ships more Gun range or longer smoke and or speed boost

 

11 hours ago, tm63au said:

To many stupid gimmicks, look there will always be a ship with better detection but Italian DD's gun range is woeful at Tier 7 its 7.5  my tier 5's have longer

 

Gun range seems to be an issue with all Italian ships (especially BB's), which doesn't make sense because Italian ships could shoot at very long ranges (albeit with bad dispersion), i don't understand WG's logic in giving these ships such short range.

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29 minutes ago, Acme1970 said:

 

 

Gun range seems to be an issue with all Italian ships (especially BB's), which doesn't make sense because Italian ships could shoot at very long ranges (albeit with bad dispersion), i don't understand WG's logic in giving these ships such short range.

The cruiser line most likely ended up with lower main battery range since Sansonetti released at the same time with his range boost talent. As a result, Sansonetti became almost mandatory for the cruisers to get that range back. Then the battleships released, again with the lowered range (along with all of their other issues and sacrifices for exhaust smoke and large caliber SAP); another Sansonetti mandatory line.

The destroyers have the same sort of limited range, but in their case it has its ups and downs. On the one hand, the lowered range means it's another 'better run Sansonetti' line and requires more points for the minimum captain build (14 rather than 10, since you need both the extra range and CE). On the other hand, the short range means that it's a lot easier to disengage and go dark when farming a battleship/cruiser or after killing the DD, since your gun bloom is so low.

Edited by MidnightPhoenix07

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Lots of suggestions here. What ONE thing could WG do to make the Italian DDs decent (not OP)?

Increase the gun range (by 20%?) 

Increase the speed boost duration (by 25%?) OR reduce the cooldown (by 25%?)

Increase the speed of the seamines (by 20%?)

Values I gave could be tweaked but looking for meaningful buffs so no 5% changes.

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IMO WG's description of this line, at least through the mid-range, is misstated, to say the least.  First, they are not primarily torpedo botes; they are gunboats.  Second, they are NOT mini-Emilyolos; they aren't designed to take on capital ships so don't try.  Third, the smoke is best used to escape, not to close.

They do well against DDs and even some cruisers.  Lurk, rush, emasculate, disappear. 

Radio Location should work very well on them.

Good luck!

 

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3 hours ago, kyesac said:

For the older ships (D'Acosta, Abruzzi, Gorizia I would agree that they are poor to average (Abruzzi is not that bad).

D'Aosta and Abruzzi are fine. There is nothing wrong with them. They just require you to plan an escape route earlier on in the match then normal for a light cruiser that is a front line kiter. It takes experience to play them, they just don't let you jump in and go and have an immediate banger of a match.

Gorizia is better played with division mates. She shines in a teamplay role rather than a selfish one. Genova is the same deal as Gorizia, both designed to play with team mates. Napoli is designed to push mid to late game decisively while being physically capable of kiting early game and then swooping in on the flank to pressure ships back or put them down so that you force the enemies on the flank into submission. 

The Italian premium cruisers are all very usable and playable in the current state of the game. They require you to be smart and teamplay. Everyone is so used to being selfish with their gameplay in randoms they forget how to do it. 

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WGs obsession with CVs and now subs, one would think they’d placate the masses with decent surface releases and what have we got: Italian BBs, Dutch cruisers, PA cruisers, Italian DDs - one garbage tier release after another.  

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If your going to add a new vehicle to the game you have to give the players a compelling reason to use that vehicle over ones that they already have and are probably very comfortable with, if your going to do tier X ranked are you going to want to use the Regolo over say a Gearing, Marceau, Kleber or a Shimakaze?

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