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alheck111

377k Damage from Carriers - the new norm

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I feel bad for that guy who spent a year to buy the Ohio.  This wasn't fun and engaging for him or any of the enemy team.  This was getting dunked on for 30k volleys with an endless stream of fighters.  This will make him no longer want to log in to play.  

WG - seriously, reconsider what you are doing here.  This with invulnerable subs is going to alter everyone's choice of ship and surface ships will no longer be viable.
 

 

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55 minutes ago, alheck111 said:

an endless stream of fighters.

 

55 minutes ago, alheck111 said:

invulnerable subs

 

55 minutes ago, alheck111 said:

will make him no longer want to log in to play.  

Welcome to clickbait city, where the hyperbole is buffed and the objectivity is nerfhammered.

"The new norm" my eye. You're not watching Mr Average CV player here; Toptier's a master at the craft. Meanwhile, others have been pasting the United States for how ridiculously visible it is from almost anywhere, and how vulnerable it is to long-range main battery fire.

Somewhere in between those extremes lies the truth. If you think a particular supercarrier is that lethal in everyone's hands, grind to it yourself and show us.

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59 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Toptier's a master at the craft.

He's actually quite bad.

Meaning this represents average performance more than you think.

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58 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

supercarrier is lethal in everyone's hands

The Midway is the one that's OP! Here is Proof!

image.thumb.png.09fa3815ef9be3dba2e62ff463e87b24.png

As we all know, every CV player can do this and no ships at all can stand even the slightest chance of doing anything in the game against a Midway but running to the corner and cowering in fear!

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I played the Unites States... and lost a quarter million credits. It's definitely not going to be the ship for the "normal" player. I did about as average in it as I do in my Midway.

The other United States player ran all over my team. Was he an average player too? Nope, he as a 57% overall win rate and is a member of a well-known unicum clan with a recent 80% win rate in CVs. Obviously he's learned all the ins and outs of the United States and is going to dominate with it.

Are "average" players going to play this ship? I'd say not so much. When you see the United States you are probably also going to see someone on one of the teams who is going to excel in it, not so much because of the ship but because only highly-experienced players with tons of cash to burn are going to be playing it consistently enough to get really good with it. All you can hope for is to have the better unicum on your team.

Edited by Snargfargle
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3 hours ago, Snargfargle said:

Are "average" players going to play this ship? I'd say not so much.

Plenty of players of all skill ranges have played both super CVs during testing. According to stats they tend to do better in them than in normal tech tree ones at least in terms of personal performance (aka average damage).

As a basic example, this player:

image.thumb.png.46b111a91723847ffb02e105d112df75.png

manages this level of performance in Eagle (top) and US (bottom):

image.thumb.png.f2a3671f8ceecca6b46c03e65b014704.png

As you can tell in terms of personal score this is an incredible improvement despite ofc WR still being bad to mediocre.

This is most likely attributed to super CVs being comparatively easier to use. The incredible speed of the tactical aircraft means flak is practically a nonfactor and since they're on a cooldown plane losses not only don't matter on them, they also lessen plane losses on regular squads as well by giving them more time to recover losses in between strikes. The higher alpha strike on the ordinance on the tactical squads also naturally contribute.

This could ofc also be the case for all other super ships, I haven't checked yet, but for super CVs at least your average player generally seems to do better in them than tech tree ones.

Edited by El2aZeR
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Just what we need.....CVs that are even more OP.   Too bad WG didn't set the cost of playing them at a million or even five million per battle.:Smile_hiding:

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3 hours ago, alheck111 said:

This with invulnerable subs is going to alter everyone's choice of ship and surface ships will no longer be viable.

WG just keeps pushing battleships back and killing off brawling as a viable option with these kinds of changes, frankly (designing sniping BBs, reducing effectiveness of secondaries overall, not introducing DCP cooldown or repair party cooldown skills (aside from 1pt skill which has minimal effect)). You push in, CVs will focus you, the fleet will focus you, subs will focus you (because somehow BBs are the primary ASW option), you'll take torps, fires, HE spam, focus fire, the works. 

Unfortunately, if you stay back and snipe, CVs can STILL get you because of their unlimited range and spotting and now clearly damage potential. Your AA isn't enough to save you in any scenario (ESPECIALLY AGAINST JETS). At least at this range(20km+), if subs chase you all the way back, then maybe you can use your "easier to use" depth charge airstrike to do damage to them. Maybe.

3 hours ago, megahugenoob said:

The speed of those planes coupled with skill of player renders AA useless.

This is of course assuming that AA isn't ALREADY ineffective in its current state, particularly long-range AA... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, alheck111 said:

 

 

Also, that opening rocket salvo at the beginning of the game was disgusting. One of the easiest 12k damage hits I have ever seen. What the heck. Not to mention the other 12k+ attacks.

Super fun and engaging, I'm sure. Wow.

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3 minutes ago, SaiIor_Moon said:

WG just keeps pushing battleships back and killing off brawling as a viable option with these kinds of changes, frankly (designing sniping BBs, reducing effectiveness of secondaries overall, not introducing DCP cooldown or repair party cooldown skills (aside from 1pt skill which has minimal effect)). You push in, CVs will focus you, the fleet will focus you, subs will focus you (because somehow BBs are the primary ASW option), you'll take torps, fires, HE spam, focus fire, the works. 

This explains why playing BBs is not fun anymore.  Anymore, I just aggressively push my flank to break the passive stalemate at the beginning of the game.  Sure, I die soon.  It gives me lots of time to watch the remaining battle to see if my early play made the difference in the game.  I wish I could zoom the mini map to full screen while I'm eating my popcorn.

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6 minutes ago, Justin_Simpleton said:

This explains why playing BBs is not fun anymore.  Anymore, I just aggressively push my flank to break the passive stalemate at the beginning of the game.  Sure, I die soon.  It gives me lots of time to watch the remaining battle to see if my early play made the difference in the game.  I wish I could zoom the mini map to full screen while I'm eating my popcorn.

Most BB players push because it's FUN to do so, the gameplay is far more dynamic when pushing, and if you want to use secondaries too, you gotta push (smartly of course), but it's immensely more risky to do so, and we get NO real bonuses for pushing. And again, there's NO skills to reduce DCP or Repair Party cooldown substantially (unless you consider -3% "substantial" lols) so HE spam/fires/torps/flooding are big threats to BB survivability (not to mention getting focused due to being spotted more often).

And as you can see in the video, that Ohio wasn't even really pushing, it was hanging back a bit but if the CV player wants to target you, there's not really much you CAN do, except "just dodge", which is easier said than done in BBs. (ESPECIALLY dodging in Standard Type BBs (21 knots or less). Ooof, not fun.)

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14 minutes ago, SaiIor_Moon said:

Also, that opening rocket salvo at the beginning of the game was disgusting. One of the easiest 12k damage hits I have ever seen. What the heck. Not to mention the other 12k+ attacks.

Super fun and engaging, I'm sure. Wow.

12 k hits in a single salvo are normal for BBs that happen to find other BBs and cruisers sailing broadside to them. I will have to admit, however, that if a United States lands a full torpedo spread on your BB it can easily do the equivalent full damage of a BB citadel broadside. I was doing this just now against Iowas in the training Room.

 

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Subs were to "ruin" the game, yet failed.

Unclear how Super CVs will succeed.

I'm fine with super CVs, in exchange for higher per-battle cost, being lot easier to do damage in.

Playerbase continues to adapt. Still getting plenty of full 12v12 matches even with subs and CVs so...I'd guess a lot of players noticed ah, their games are virtually unchanged unless the CV or sub knows his ship well enough to make a headache.

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4 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

 

 

Welcome to clickbait city, where the hyperbole is buffed and the objectivity is nerfhammered.

"The new norm" my eye. You're not watching Mr Average CV player here; Toptier's a master at the craft. Meanwhile, others have been pasting the United States for how ridiculously visible it is from almost anywhere, and how vulnerable it is to long-range main battery fire.

Somewhere in between those extremes lies the truth. If you think a particular supercarrier is that lethal in everyone's hands, grind to it yourself and show us.

If this was a game in a BB, cruiser, or DD, I'd be blown away.  The amount of luck and skill required to even hit 200,000 damage is incredible in any of these ships should be commended.  I rarely ever go over 200k damage and I once in 5 years got over 300k.

This is a CV that just got released to the tech tree line and is universally viewed less as effective than the Namikov and Eagle.  It racked up close to 400k.  No ship was safe.  Everyone got nuked.

I say CV's are broken - someone says show me the video.  I show the video - someone says it's unicum play.  If I showed average player doing giant numbers in the same carrier - it's a fluke.  There is no reasoning with someone who thinks the world is flat even if I do everything to prove that it is not.

 

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Just played another game in the United States. Through a judicious use of some of the temporary camo and signals that I have that still give credits I was able to actually make 75k credits with a Standard Account this time. I notice that the tier X Premium permacamos no longer give credits though (at least not for the United States). It makes me wonder why anyone would bother to purchase them for doubloons.

The other player was an 83% CV unicum over the past 30 days, 57% overall from another well-known unicum clan. I did fairly well, considering my team only lasted about ten minutes. It's almost like we are back to the RTS days when the unicums in CVs ran roughshod over "normal" players.

Well, I know one way of assuring that there is no supership CV in the match -- play my Midway!

 

Edited by Snargfargle
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Pulling stats from na.wows-numbers.com for the top 50% of the players (to discard the really bad oddballs) get us an average that is still below 150k... 
image.thumb.png.238ac263033e6bd86c811626dfb21d5c.png

I don't think 377k will become the norm anything soon. :Smile_teethhappy:  The top 5% got like 175k.... Mighty impressive, but still quite far from 377k.

But yeah, I do admit they are a bit too strong to be fun to play against, if you are in a "weak" T9 BB especially.... They don't feel particularly well balanced. We'll see what happens during the next couple of weeks but sadly, I feel they will remain pretty close to what they are today at this point.
 

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 "New norm"....   WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY to early to even think that much less claim it in a thread.

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1 hour ago, Snargfargle said:

12 k hits in a single salvo are normal for BBs that happen to find other BBs and cruisers sailing broadside to them. I will have to admit, however, that if a United States lands a full torpedo spread on your BB it can easily do the equivalent full damage of a BB citadel broadside. I was doing this just now against Iowas in the training Room.

 

And also a heckuva lot faster (and potentially more accurate) to deal damage via CV planes than BB salvo. Actually, I was testing CVs against BBs too in Training Battle!

LOLSCVdamage.thumb.png.0c2b7908feddf0c5c11f09990d586eb1.png

So Enterprise's rocket fighters don't do as much (27mm HE pen on rockets) so I used pretty much just torpedo planes and dive bombers against max AI, firing, moving bot Izumo, at less than 15km, and closing. Enterprise took 3/4 damage by the end, but did not sink. It was surprisingly easy to land hit after hit on the bot Izumo (that said, it WAS just a bot, so....I'm certain against actual players, the results are very different). Still, lotsa damage done pretty quickly.

Edited by SaiIor_Moon

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But the superships are not pay to win says the forum trolls.

Edited by WES_HoundDog
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22 minutes ago, WES_HoundDog said:

But the superships are not pay to win says the forum trolls.

How are they "Pay 2 Win" when you can get them for free with several million credits?

:Smile_popcorn:

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3 minutes ago, MBRicochet said:

My results with Eagle. I am not that good in general. These things are.... Extra... 

Screenshot_20220414-153404_Brave.jpg

calisto-yew.gif.8515a446e4651783ad609ad702c0d522.gif

What the heck, AVERAGE DAMAGE is 121k+?! That seems....kinda excessive to me.

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6 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

How are they "Pay 2 Win" when you can get them for free with several million credits?

:Smile_popcorn:

so apart from the 50 mil you need to get superships. you'll also need to earn alot of credits in order either profit or break even because of the 360,000 credit servicing cost. 

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