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Snoopys_Odyssey

USS Hornet. A Homage Idea For Torpedo Squadron 8

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There was only one lone survivor of Torpedo Squadron 8 of the USS Hornet during the battle of Midway....Ensign George Gay.  So, I propose a special ability for the TBD torpedo planes in the game.  The lone surviving TBD Devastator torpedo plane in the attacking squadron can NOT be shot down by anything, as long as it has it's torpedo ordnance on board.  As soon as that lone TBD drops it's torpedo, it loses it's immunity to be being shot down.  This could be a nice way of honoring and paying homage to Ensign George Gay who was shot down after he dropped his torpedo during the battle of Midway.  

So yes, a lone TBD Devastator could fly around with impunity at is whopping 90 something knots.  Give it a count down timer of around 20-30 seconds to (begin)finish the torpedo run, then lose it's immunity.

What do you think of this idea?

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1 hour ago, Snoopys_Odyssey said:

There was only one lone survivor of Torpedo Squadron 8 of the USS Hornet during the battle of Midway....Ensign George Gay.  So, I propose a special ability for the TBD torpedo planes in the game.  The lone surviving TBD Devastator torpedo plane in the attacking squadron can NOT be shot down by anything, as long as it has it's torpedo ordnance on board.  As soon as that lone TBD drops it's torpedo, it loses it's immunity to be being shot down.  This could be a nice way of honoring and paying homage to Ensign George Gay who was shot down after he dropped his torpedo during the battle of Midway.  

So yes, a lone TBD Devastator could fly around with impunity at is whopping 90 something knots.  Give it a count down timer of around 20-30 seconds to (begin)finish the torpedo run, then lose it's immunity.

What do you think of this idea?

His torpedo didn't hit. The main thing torpedo squadron 8 did was pull the fighter patrol down to sea level just as the Enterprise dive bombers showed up, allowing them to dive on the Kido Butai and wreck three of the Japanese Carriers.

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3 minutes ago, _KlRlTO_ said:

His torpedo didn't hit

whether or not the torpedo hits is not relevant.  The fact that he got his torpedo launched is what I am highlighting

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while an interesting idea..... not sure it would be worthwhile in the long run.

 

Instead, I notice all the pictures of Hornet shows its aircraft (not the B-25s) wearing the same 'camo' as Rangers. TBDs with bright yellow wings.

How about we get the proper camo for WW2 on the planes, including Torpedo 8's on the torpedo bombers.

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5 hours ago, _KlRlTO_ said:

His torpedo didn't hit. The main thing torpedo squadron 8 did was pull the fighter patrol down to sea level just as the Enterprise dive bombers showed up, allowing them to dive on the Kido Butai and wreck three of the Japanese Carriers.

That was more the role of Torpedo 3 off of Yorktown. Torpedo 8 hit an hour before the fateful dive bomber attack. The main contribution of Torpedo 8 and Torpedo 6 (Enterprise) was continuing to keeping the Kido Butai off balance (like the Midway-based bombers before them) and thus preventing any attempts to launch a strike against the carriers. Also Enterprise's dive bombers only hit Kaga and Akagi, Soryu got taken out by Dauntlesses from Yorktown (and the rest of Hornet's planes went flying off to nowhere).

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1 hour ago, JediMasterDraco said:

That was more the role of Torpedo 3 off of Yorktown. Torpedo 8 hit an hour before the fateful dive bomber attack. The main contribution of Torpedo 8 and Torpedo 6 (Enterprise) was continuing to keeping the Kido Butai off balance (like the Midway-based bombers before them) and thus preventing any attempts to launch a strike against the carriers. Also Enterprise's dive bombers only hit Kaga and Akagi, Soryu got taken out by Dauntlesses from Yorktown (and the rest of Hornet's planes went flying off to nowhere).

Very true. Sadly CV-8's biggest success was the Doolittle Raid but her replacement more than made up for her predecessor's lack of luck.

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Van we pay homage to Hornet's other squadrons by having them fly uselessly out to sea in the wrong direction?

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1 hour ago, CaptHarlock_222 said:

Very true. Sadly CV-8's biggest success was the Doolittle Raid but her replacement more than made up for her predecessor's lack of luck.

True, but that is sometimes undervalued. Yeah there are the counterarguments that Japan was planning to go for Midway even without Doolittle, but that single raid really freaked them out and caused them to commit a surprising amount of anti-air resources to defending the Home Islands. Resources that might've played an important role elsewhere.

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On the subject of TBD Devastators is this pre-war picture:

"A formation of aircraft led by Douglas TBDs followed by Northrop BT dive bombers flies over U.S. Navy ships during exercises at sea, 1938-1939" (source)

xSF5tO5s72xrGCPGVJ51lP1ELvcspEmSWgwpG19D

 

The TBDs were already obsolete and the TBF Avengers had started entering service in 1942 with a few seeing action at Midway.  Hornet still had TBD Devastators for Midway but by the time of Guadalcanal, she'd switch to Avengers.

yhst-55434581667841_2272_18734482

 

While Hornet's showing wasn't ideal in Midway, especially the "flight to nowhere," she did get some work done.  In the late stages of the battle her bombers helped attack the fleeing IJN forces, damaging CA Mogami, helped sink CA Mikuma, and damaged a DD.


Later that same year the Shokaku-class who fought Yorktown at Coral Sea, will get very familiar with the last 2 CVs of Yorktown-class, Enterprise and Hornet, in two CV duels.  Battles of Eastern Solomons (August 1942) and Santa Cruz Islands (October 1942).  The Kido Butai may have gotten rekt at Midway, but the two ships of the Shokaku-class had plenty of fight left.  

Enterprise at Eastern Solomons.

1920px-USS_Enterprise_(CV-6)_under_attac

A bomb hitting Enterprise's flight deck.

1920px-Japanese_bomb_hits_USS_Enterprise

Dive bomber shot down over Enterprise.

1920px-Japanese_Aichi_D3A_dive_bomber_sh

CVL Ryujo would be disabled and sunk.

1920px-Aerial_view_of_the_immobile_Japan

 

Between those two battles, Wasp was sunk by a submarine.

1920px-USS_Wasp_(CV-7)_burning_on_15_Sep

Hornet at the Battle of the Santa Cruz Islands, 1942.  She would not survive this battle.

1920px-Japanese_aircraft_attack_USS_Horn

That bomber would crash into Hornet.

Japanese_Aichi_D3A_crashes_into_USS_Horn

Below is her sister Enterprise in the same battle.  South Dakota is off into the distance.

1920px-USS_Enterprise_(CV-6)_under_attac

Enterprise and South Dakota again, Big-E is on fire.

A_Japanese_Aichi_D3A_is_shot_down_betwee

Below is Shokaku's crew fighting fires on the ship.

Shokaku_Santa_Cruz_fire.jpg

**** got real at that battle.

 

Santa Cruz Islands was fought by the IJN looking for a knockout blow by sinking Hornet & Enterprise.  Anything less was a failure, that's how bad things were for the IJN at this time.  Nagumo was once again in charge.  The idea was that these 2 CVs needed to be sunk before the expected arrival of the Essex-class in 1943.  Japanese lessons learned from Midway were applied.  Essex would be completed in December 1942 and her sisters would start trickling in after her.  The IJN badly needed to sink Hornet & Big-E so that for a while at least in 1943, they would be on comparable amount of Fleet Carriers as the Americans.  For a while at least.

Essex commissions in December 1942.

Bon Homme Richard (later renamed Yorktown) commissions April 1943.

Cabot (later renamed Lexington) in February 1943.

Bunker Hill in May 1943.

For the first half of 1943, if Enterprise & Hornet were both sunk, it would take a while for the American CV force to match up to the 2 Shokaku-class.

 

But the second half of 1943...

Intrepid commissions in August 1943.

Kearsarge (later renamed Hornet) in November 1943.

Oriskany (renamed to Wasp) in November 1943.

 

I won't even try to list Essex-class commissioning in 1944.

 

 

The 2 Shokaku-class carriers do far better jobs than the 4 at Midway (Kaga, Akagi, Soryu, Hiryu) in these two battles.  At Santa Cruz Islands, the IJN would take Hornet down but Enterprise would limp away.  However, during this battle their naval aviators would suffer severe losses.  Nagumo had to get a knockout blow but could not complete it with sinking Enterprise.  Santa Cruz Islands was actually a victory for Nagumo but he would be relieved of command for literally not winning harder.

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On 4/13/2022 at 11:42 PM, Snoopys_Odyssey said:

There was only one lone survivor of Torpedo Squadron 8 of the USS Hornet during the battle of Midway....Ensign George Gay.  So, I propose a special ability for the TBD torpedo planes in the game.  The lone surviving TBD Devastator torpedo plane in the attacking squadron can NOT be shot down by anything, as long as it has it's torpedo ordnance on board.  As soon as that lone TBD drops it's torpedo, it loses it's immunity to be being shot down.  This could be a nice way of honoring and paying homage to Ensign George Gay who was shot down after he dropped his torpedo during the battle of Midway.  

So yes, a lone TBD Devastator could fly around with impunity at is whopping 90 something knots.  Give it a count down timer of around 20-30 seconds to (begin)finish the torpedo run, then lose it's immunity.

What do you think of this idea?

Why not have a PBY fly in, simulating the rescue instead? This would be much easier to add into the game. 

While not as infamous as the Mark 14 sub launched torpedo, the Mark 13 were just as bad early in the war.

 

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While a fitting tribute, most players will not understand why they can't kill the last plane. Maybe they could change the squadron label to "Gay torpedo plane" when it goes into effect.

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On 4/14/2022 at 7:48 AM, Lord_Slayer said:

while an interesting idea..... not sure it would be worthwhile in the long run.

 

Instead, I notice all the pictures of Hornet shows its aircraft (not the B-25s) wearing the same 'camo' as Rangers. TBDs with bright yellow wings.

How about we get the proper camo for WW2 on the planes, including Torpedo 8's on the torpedo bombers.

camos change the planes now i believe.  the wings aren't yellow in the armory(when viewed in port), though not sure if that is the doolittle camo doing that.

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