Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section.
Zaydin

So when do Pan Asian cruisers get good?

29 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

4,061
[WKY19]
Beta Testers
2,639 posts
18,982 battles

Because I completed the last set of missions today and got the Chumphon and the matches I have played it in have done little to impress me. I was equally unimpressed with the Rahmat when I got that, too.

Harbin looks like the first that might be decent just due to being the first with more than one torpedo launcher per side with two triple launchers per side. The gunnery isn't likely to improve much though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,600
[TO07]
Members
4,225 posts
31,069 battles
58 minutes ago, Zaydin said:

Because I completed the last set of missions today and got the Chumphon and the matches I have played it in have done little to impress me. I was equally unimpressed with the Rahmat when I got that, too.

Harbin looks like the first that might be decent just due to being the first with more than one torpedo launcher per side with two triple launchers per side. The gunnery isn't likely to improve much though.

Are You Serious Spiderman GIF - Are You Serious Spiderman Meme - Discover &  Share GIFs

There not RUSSIAN, ain't going to happen

  • Boring 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6,585
[RLGN]
Members
18,934 posts
34,471 battles

Tier 10… like always.

Lower tiers garbage; gimmick or line flavor not really there until tier 10.

Can’t have players having actual fun until the best tier, now can we?

  • Thanks 3
  • Meh 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
843
[FRFR]
Members
1,608 posts

WG created the torpedo skills in the cruiser skill tree, and then decided that they needed a line of cruisers that were focused on torpedoes so someone would actually take those skills.  These ships are just big DDs with bad concealment (for a DD) and citadels.  @Zaydin I think you have the right idea, and Harbin will feel more competent with the extra torps.

Ultimately though, I think you just really need to want to play a torp cruiser to feel satisfied with these ships.  I played DDs for a while but gravitated back to cruisers because I wanted to pew, pew.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,468
[SWFSH]
[SWFSH]
Volunteer Moderator
2,628 posts
7,415 battles

Rahmat is painful, 7.5s reload is atrocious. Being about as durable as a box of tannerite at a shooting range for the blind doesn't help her at all.

Chumphon feels ... okay. The guns still have an inexplicably BAD reload of 6.5s, while Atlanta sits at 4.8 & Flint at 5.1 respectively. Even with AR & somehow surviving on 400 HP my reload was only 5.2s. You have to be effectively dead before your reload becomes bearable.

The extra turret, TRB, and full second better reload over Rahmat's horrendous 7.5s makes her feel a lot better than that heap of garbage, but it's not a huge improvement.

Hope things get better. I seriously think Chumphon would be good if her reload was buffed a bit, 6.5s is just too painful for guns of that caliber. It should be lowered to 5.1 to mirror Flint. Rahmat should have her reload reduced to 6.5s.

Edited by Fast_Battleship_Iowa
  • Cool 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,165 posts
7,540 battles

I have the T9 and it isn’t a ton of fun to play, for me. It seems designed almost entirely as a defensive platform. The 12.5 km torps sound good on paper but usually require risky positioning to use offensively. Sure they’ll punish a push but once players get a whiff of you they’ll just reposition or dev strike you once spotted. The guns are meh at best. I think this line might be my least favorite line. I didn’t even contemplate swooping Dalian.

Edited by KnifeInUrNeck

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,056
Members
2,647 posts

I think they'll shine best when one win / XP requirement in each of them yields a bunch of coal or some billets of steel.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
733
[NAVAL]
[NAVAL]
Members
370 posts
19,012 battles

when you and 2 other people make a div of 3 tier X's and launch a 120 torpedo spread. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24,375
[ARGSY]
Members
30,559 posts
28,102 battles

When? After Chungking.

I can't help but think that in the German battlecruisers and Pan-Asian cruisers, Wargaming has given us two perfect co-op lines. I'm going to enjoy this grind, once I clear my plate of my current objectives.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
287
[BOTES]
[BOTES]
Members
161 posts
18,843 battles

In classic WG fashion, the line seems to only get decent at T8 and actually good at TX. Probably done this way to encourage people to spend money to get the high tier ships early, rather than wait for them to be free. Take a look at the Italian DD line, they are already nerfing T8 and below.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
244
[ICEY]
Volunteer Moderator
485 posts

For some reason, Rahmat seems to work quite well for me. Her ballistics is above average for a shooty pew pew smoke cruiser and I've been able to do more than I expected. I haven't got Chumphon yet but I have Atlanta and Flint and I can already see how much worse its going to be with the terrible reload and even worse ballistics.

Edited by Admiral_Bingo
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,673
[WOLFC]
Members
5,898 posts
16,516 battles
16 minutes ago, Admiral_Bingo said:

For some reason, Rahmat seems to work quite well for me. Her ballistics is above average for a shooty pew pew smoke cruiser and I've been able to do more than I expected. I haven't got Chumphon yet but I have Atlanta and Flint and I can already see how much worse its going to be with the terrible reload and even worse ballistics.

The HE penetration characteristics are also noticeably worse. Rahmat’s 133mm guns sit in the same sweet spot as Soviet 130mm guns in that they have 22mm base HE pen vs. the 21mm you see with 127mm guns. This means that IFHE boosts the penetration to 27mm, rather than 26mm. At tier VI, where the the only hulls you will face with greater than 27mm plating are a single tier of BBs, those penetration characteristics are extremely strong.

The IFHE change from 30% to 25% extra pen really hurt Atlanta and Flint.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
213
[-PVE-]
Members
487 posts
15,886 battles

There was one in Nara yesterday and it was top of the winner list. Guess there good for OPs. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,442
[D-PN]
Members
3,709 posts
17,209 battles
6 hours ago, Zaydin said:

Because I completed the last set of missions today and got the Chumphon and the matches I have played it in have done little to impress me. I was equally unimpressed with the Rahmat when I got that, too.

Harbin looks like the first that might be decent just due to being the first with more than one torpedo launcher per side with two triple launchers per side. The gunnery isn't likely to improve much though.

It's probably by accident but I think the two best in the line with be Rahmat and Harbin.  I know a lot of folks don't like Rahmat, but for a T6 cruiser it's quite good once you learn it's playstyle.  My opinion is a guess since I haven't played the high tier ones....But Sejong and and Jinan just don't quite have the DPM for small cal guns to work at that tier.  They need to land torps and that is inconsistent.  They are anti push boats.... if a push doesn't happen they struggle.

Rahmat is still more gun focused and with IFHE it pens everything it sees but T8 BBs. 

Chumphon's guns are way overnerfed.  It will probably have terrible random numbers.

I"m going to release a review/guide on it soon.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,776
[ARR0W]
Members
5,973 posts
32,064 battles
17 minutes ago, YouSatInGum said:

It's probably by accident but I think the two best in the line with be Rahmat and Harbin.  I know a lot of folks don't like Rahmat, but for a T6 cruiser it's quite good once you learn it's playstyle.  My opinion is a guess since I haven't played the high tier ones....But Sejong and and Jinan just don't quite have the DPM for small cal guns to work at that tier.  They need to land torps and that is inconsistent.  They are anti push boats.... if a push doesn't happen they struggle.

Rahmat is still more gun focused and with IFHE it pens everything it sees but T8 BBs. 

Chumphon's guns are way overnerfed.  It will probably have terrible random numbers.

I"m going to release a review/guide on it soon.

Having played the Tier 5, 6, 8 and 9, I agree with this assessment. The ability to aim into smoke is a necessity for all since they lack radar, hydro, and are unable to comb out smoked DDs since they have deepwater torps. I will get the Tier 7 today. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[TORCH]
Members
907 posts
25,160 battles

I've only gotten Chunking and Rahmat so far, so anything I say on the others would be mostly speculation.  Based on those two, however, I'd say the generic hate for the entire line that some have expressed is misplaced.  Chunking?  Go ahead and hate her.  Slow ROF, and only 6 guns to make it even worse.  AND slow turret traverse.  I just couldn't make the thing work.  Looking at the early server stats, I'm relieved to find I'm not alone.  In terms of both average damage and win rate, she's the absolute bottom of all t5 cruisers.  Worse than Emerald.  I wouldn't have believed that was possible but apparently it is.

Rahmat, OTOH...I'm enjoying this one.  She just plain FEELS stronger.  10 guns.  ROF isn't blinding fast, but seems fast enough.  My captain doesn't have IFHE yet, but even without IFHE I'm having some good games.  In fact, I'm still debating whether I'll get IFHE or not, when the time comes.  I'm sort of enjoying my current life as a pyromaniac.  Checking the NA server stats for the ship, again I seem to have a lot of company.  Among T6 cruisers, Rahmat has the second highest damage output, and 4th highest win rate.  So obviously some folks are making her work.

It also bears mention that Rahmat seems to be a decent AA ship.  My first game this morning was against 2 CVs, and those two just wouldn't leave me alone.  We lost the game, but I took down 46 planes, and still had time to get in 4 kills.

These are pretty new ships, so the server stats are only based on a couple thousand games each, but I doubt they'll change dramatically.

All that said, I'd agree with @YouSatInGumthat these ships are rather situational.  They particularly shine in defending against a push, and are rather less useful in supporting a friendly push.  And lead a push?  Nope.  Also, quite obviously, Rahmat (and Chunking) are very soft ships.  Yes, you can be deleted instantly.  Rahmat is perfectly capable of putting up 60-70k damage games, but you'll also occasionally die a sudden, horrible, and early death.  I mostly play light cruisers, so I'm used to living in terror, but if that's not you, I certainly understand.

I

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,468
[SWFSH]
[SWFSH]
Volunteer Moderator
2,628 posts
7,415 battles
6 hours ago, YouSatInGum said:

It's probably by accident but I think the two best in the line with be Rahmat and Harbin.  I know a lot of folks don't like Rahmat, but for a T6 cruiser it's quite good once you learn it's playstyle.  My opinion is a guess since I haven't played the high tier ones....But Sejong and and Jinan just don't quite have the DPM for small cal guns to work at that tier.  They need to land torps and that is inconsistent.  They are anti push boats.... if a push doesn't happen they struggle.

Rahmat is still more gun focused and with IFHE it pens everything it sees but T8 BBs. 

Chumphon's guns are way overnerfed.  It will probably have terrible random numbers.

I"m going to release a review/guide on it soon.

Good point, completely forgot IFHE on Rahmat. I'm hoping the rest of the line is coming out of the box as undertuned so WG can release a line that isn't broken on day 1, but some of the ships need some love. Even if it's just a reload buff (Rahmat & Chumphon), they need something.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,028
[WOLFG]
Members
1,479 posts

Rhamat.  Love it.  I like smoke Cruisers so this fits in with my 'go to' playstyle.  The rate of fire should be boosted somewhat, but I won't hold my breath.

Chumphon.  Hate it.  For goodness sake don't get torped.  No torp protection.  Being bottom tier in this is excruciating.  The guns won't pen crap.  What a waste of a perma camo.  It's an absolute turd in both CoOP and Random.

The rest.  I'll wait and see what others have to say.

Edited by Captain_Rawhide

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16,872
[WOLF5]
[WOLF5]
Members
37,585 posts
30,508 battles

Characteristics these PACLs share:

- Generally stealthy

- Smoke access

- Cruiser torps with above average range

- Squishy hulls, very little staying power once taking hits.  Think of a Line of Atlantas / Flints and you'll get the picture in how squishy they are.

- Extremities are thinner than what's typical even for CLs in the same tier.

- DD guns except in Tier V who has 152mm guns.

- Mediocre gun reload for their size.

- Very subpar gun ranges.  Tier VIII-X, their gun ranges go from 13.5km to 14.5km.

- Variation in gunnery:  This CL Line is like the PADD Line with designs from different countries.  You will see RN 133mm guns, RU 130mm guns, and USN 127mm/38 and 127mm/54 guns.  Your guns will behave differently as you go down the Line.

d3VHSJN.jpeg

 

The gimmicks of the line only come together at High Tier.

 

TRB access only starts with VII Chumphon, but she only has 2x4 torps.

 

Tier VIII Harbin - Gets a lot of torpedoes (4x3) to go with the TRB consumable.  Prior PACLs in this line have nowhere near that number.  Harbin should be able to drop 12 fish, pop TRB, circle around and drop 12 more, and have 24 fish in the water at the same time.

 

Tier IX Sejong - Is where the line gets more interesting.  She has a 32mm upper belt, meaning it requires 460mm+ AP to Overmatch that.  But she also has a tall, exposed Citadel, so anything that catches her sides, she'll be in pain.

kdGUkwR.jpeg6KHqiGY.jpeg

Citadel Armor Belt is 95mm (dark orange).

Armor Belt is 32mm (dark yellow).

Extremities are 16mm (light green).

AA picks up considerably compared to all prior PACLs.

Not only do Sejong's torpedoes push out to 12km to go with her 9.5km Stealth Build detection range, but she has lots of torpedoes:  4x4 torpedo launchers in total.  She can do a circle, drop 16 total fish, pop TRB, and drop 16 more fish.  Sejong can have 32 deep water torpedoes in the water at the same time.

 

Tier X Jinan - I don't have this bote, but looking in Fitting Tool, she ups the ante.  She seems like a Pan Asia version of Steel Ship Austin.

Armor profile is exactly like that of Sejong.

She has fewer guns than Sejong but they shoot faster.

She's faster than Sejong, 33kts vs 35kts.

Torpedoes get improved.

+ Sejong has 12km range but Jinan's go 13.5km.  Jinan with Stealth Build has 9.8km surface detection.

+ Sejong has 4x4 torpedoes but Jinan goes to 4x5.  So if she does the circular move to drop all torpedoes, she can drop 20 fish, pop TRB, then fire another 20 fish.  Jinan can have up to 40 fish in the water at the same time.  Kitakami is supposed to have a 40 fish attack, but they're normal torpedoes while Jinan's are DWTs (can't hit DDs).

 

Despite me painting a picture of the flood of torpedoes this line can do in later tiers, I still think this will not be a popular Cruiser Line.  The line demands the Cruiser player to be aggressive and playing forward.  Some of the Cruiser players will fit right into this:  Radar Cruiser players that are used to playing close to the caps.  RNCL players are in a similar situation, their shell flight characteristics are horrid for even intermediate range, so they're at their best if they can creep closer.

With PACLs requiring a forward, aggressive style, coupled with their squishy hulls, they're going to be unforgiving for Cruiser players that prefer being at intermediate and long range.

But man, these High Tier PACLs in a kiting situation would be fun in dropping torpedoes into pushing reds.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
216
[A-D-F]
Members
698 posts

So basically Italian Cruisers all over again.

As in tier 7 and below are trash / Free XP sink / "Gate Keepers"
Tier 8 is Ok / "meh"
Tier 9 ~10 are "fun" until they become too popular and get "Yueyang-ed"

  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24,375
[ARGSY]
Members
30,559 posts
28,102 battles

Having three bots on our team (the Ranger, the live Doria and the Dallas) helped with the damage and kill farming for sure, but I call Rahmat a good boat in that meta and I can't wait to see what Chumphon is like...

image.png.f868beb12c9b2027f865fc44e8f546e1.png 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16,872
[WOLF5]
[WOLF5]
Members
37,585 posts
30,508 battles
10 minutes ago, Sammy_Small said:

So basically Italian Cruisers all over again.

As in tier 7 and below are trash / Free XP sink / "Gate Keepers"
Tier 8 is Ok / "meh"
Tier 9 ~10 are "fun" until they become too popular and get "Yueyang-ed"

The saving grace for the ITA Cruisers is that they haven't taken a PADD level of Nerf Bat to the teeth, and they've been out a long while now.  Venezia did get some nerfs, but that thing is still a monster.  PADD Line took several kicks from WG's steel toed boots to the face and have never recovered.  They were a FOTM Line when they were new, after the nerfs, they were abandoned.  I've never seen people flock to a line and abandon it completely after one patch like what happened to the PADD Line.

 

Also, it's not just an ITA Cruiser and now PACL thing.  The formula of a line's features only gathering together in the highest of tiers has happened ever since the RUBB Line.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,442
[D-PN]
Members
3,709 posts
17,209 battles
12 hours ago, Sammy_Small said:

So basically Italian Cruisers all over again.

As in tier 7 and below are trash / Free XP sink / "Gate Keepers"
Tier 8 is Ok / "meh"
Tier 9 ~10 are "fun" until they become too popular and get "Yueyang-ed"

Not really.... WG probably intended it this way.... but I doubt it will work out.

The Tier 9/10 are very dependent on torps.... they don't really have enough of a combination of DPM/ballistics/ range to be successful Smolensk like HE spammers.  The wall of skill is fearsome to pushes and sometimes will pay off great games, but very inconsistent as well....especially when the Reds don't push and that happens a lot in T9/10 these days.

Rahmat is more gun focused and the guns with IFHE are functionally similar to other CL's 152's and is nearly tops in HE DPM (it was until 11th hour nerf).... that's not the case at T9/10... IFHE doesn't help one bit on T8+ BBs and downgrades fires per min...

This is part of a reason I think Rahmat at T6 is stronger than Sejong/Jinan at T9/10.

BTW - for those of you who enjoy ops.... Rahmat is very good for Raptor.  Did 230k damage on first run through.

Edited by YouSatInGum

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×