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ArIskandir

Commentaries on Roadmap for 2022

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So, let's start by what people seems to be wondering the most:

We plan to overhaul the in-game economic system and also separate it from ship exteriors Economic bonuses will be separated from signals and camouflages and be made into a stand-alone entity. This means that you'll be able to choose your ship's appearance and select economic bonuses separately. Signals and camouflages will serve as elements of the exterior and yield combat bonuses only.

To me it reads fairly clear and straight, the economic bonuses are getting "extracted" from camouflages and signals (I do wonder tho, economic Signals are already separated so what's the deal with including signals here?) and become their own thing... I'll call it "ancillaries" just for easiness. So your current Camo will probably be replaced by the same Camo (with the performance bonuses, concealment and dispersion) + corresponding Ancillary (XP & income related bonuses). I see no major mystery, we get a new consumable (Ancillaries) that's it.

This is kinda interesting for monetization purposes, the economic boosters (ancillaries) probably would not be given for free anymore (as they currently are baked in camos) but likely sold separately as their own entities. Meanwhile camos become a Cosmetic able to be used separately, this could be kinda cool for Perma camos as you won't be tied to that particular "paint" scheme if you don't like it but would still be able to enjoy the corresponding economic bonus. 

This looks like a step towards introducing monetization of cosmetics. I see no major problem about that, it keeps the spirit of a true F2P game, you sell grind shortcuts and cosmetic, performance bonuses remain free for all, that's fair. 

Next: Spain is making its way into the roster. . Being half-spanish myself, this is really cool news... the lingering question is, would it be DDs or Cruisers. Anyway, it looks like the TT line is still far way.

Now my personal nightmare: If the supership testing turns out to be a success and returns good results, then this spring we'll extend the existing ship branches by adding their own respective superships.   This means they already have the Superships ready to be deployed and the chances of this not happening are equal to 0. T11 is a fact. What will this imply for my relation with the game I'm not sure yet, my gut feeling is I won't bother grinding T10 anymore and T9 will be the end of the road for me as a F2P player. I don't want to come out as all gloom and doom but I really dislike the concept of power creeping everything by adding another tier, even more when that tier doesn't add any interesting from a gameplay perspective, just increased lethality and "moar" power.

So new lines, French Cruiser split and British BC. Interesting, I'm digging both ideas but it opens the question, what's the deal with Yorktown then? ... Spain when, would it be DDs then? I'm intrigued in a good way.

New game modes. Cool, I like them all so keep churning them, I'm Ok with all of them... Adding Arms Race to Randoms looks a bit risky but I prefer them to try new things than not. 

Changes to the Containers tab    This is one very overdue change, finally. Please do.

Training combat missions for new players.   Another good addition, also long overdue. 

  A new mode called—"Sea Battle" a mini-activity in World of Warships, inspired by a classic game—offers a new way to obtain various rewards. The rules are simple—you'll play on a 2D ruled grid that holds each player's fleet of ships. This one has me intrigued, is this another mini game like the puzzle thingy? Are these mini games becoming a feature?... interesting. 

Submarine testing will resume. The fate of the new ship type will depend on the test results.   No Surprise there but talking about the "fate" of them hanging on the test sounds intriguing, are they really considering ditching them if they can't be made to work? ... hmmm

So that's it for now...

Edited by ArIskandir
How in heavens do you edit the white text? can't change font color
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FYI, your white text is very hard to read on the legacy light mode forum palette.

Superships are going to be very annoying, as is the additional economic pressure the game is definitely going to bring from the combination of changes. Personally, I became slightly less annoyed about superships when I found out they count as T11s for econ when you hit them, so you can farm uptier bonuses on T10s.

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17 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

For the love of God, please don't use white text.

Ok done, I pasted the text from the Article and for some reason the font is not editable, very weird. Had to re-type the white text.

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18 minutes ago, Edgecase said:

Personally, I became slightly less annoyed about superships when I found out they count as T11s for econ when you hit them, so you can farm uptier bonuses on T10s.

Honestly I don't have problems about Supership performance details or them being functionally T11, what I dislike is the Power creep principle involved in adding T11 and the fact it falls well beyond the limits of F2P. 

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45 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

Ok done, I pasted the text from the Article and for some reason the font is not editable, very weird. Had to re-type the white text.

A tip for this: In the future paste the article into the Windows Notepad app and then copy & paste again into the forum post. That way all the formatting (color etc.) gets lost.

Or right click on the forum post and use the "Paste as plain text" option (if available).

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None of it is compelling to me.

The economics maybe. We'll see. I will not pay a dollar to buy credits. If I am out of credits and have to grind some POS to get a few credits? That will be the end point of this game's life on my computer. And it will be consigned to the ash heap of gaming memories.

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Nice summary and I agree with your comments for the most part.  Rather than adding Arms Race, I'd rather see them remove Epicenter and replace it with Arms Race!  I'm interested to see what they do with the economy - and what impact that's going to have on perm camo.  My only issue with Superships - and I don't think they're really all that super - is that (and I could be mistaken here - I don't play them so am not 100% on how to earn the tokens) it seems like the players who play them aren't used to playing at the higher tiers, where, IMHO the play style is a little different.  

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2 hours ago, ArIskandir said:

To me it reads fairly clear and straight, the economic bonuses are getting "extracted" from camouflages and signals (I do wonder tho, economic Signals are already separated so what's the deal with including signals here?) and become their own thing... I'll call it "ancillaries" just for easiness. So your current Camo will probably be replaced by the same Camo (with the performance bonuses, concealment and dispersion) + corresponding Ancillary (XP & income related bonuses). I see no major mystery, we get a new consumable (Ancillaries) that's it.

Tbh I was concentrated on the camo part and  overlooked the connection with flags.

Well... sadly this starts looking grimmer and grimmer . It is fairly obvious what's gonna happen  Signals flags begone, stacking of economic bonuses begone, flag, credits and camo containers begone ,voila streamlining the containers and the wows economy. 

I was ready to post in the other thread that....its not that bad. Ouch.....

2 hours ago, ArIskandir said:

Next: Spain is making its way into the roster. . Being half-spanish myself, this is really cool news... the lingering question is, would it be DDs or Cruisers. Anyway, it looks like the TT line is still far way.

Dd's. There is enough material for a decent start, completed by some fantasy.. Spain's last cruiser was the Baleares class, so....

Edited by Bandi73

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1 minute ago, Bandi73 said:

Tbh I was concentrated on the camo part and  overlooked the connection with flags.

Well... sadly this starts looking grimmer and grimmer . It is fairly obvious what's gonna happen  Signals flags begone, stacking of economic bonuses begone, flag and credits containers begone ,voila streamlining the containers and the wows economy. 

Let's assume the worst and this leads to a tightening of free economic boosters... so the consequence is grinds become slower, that's it. Honestly I'm OK with that line as long as performance boosters remain on equal ground for everyone. For me that's the key aspect for a good and fair PvP F2P game, equality of performance conditions for all the players. If they want to lean hard on selling cosmetics and economic booster, I think it is a fair way to generate income... much better than selling OP ships that powercreep previous content.

Now, I really don't visualize this as "closing" opportunities but more oriented at "opening" opportunities for sales. Another set of consumables/boosters is yet another thing to buy/sell, for them represent obviously a new revenue channel, for us an opportunity for greater customization. These changes will affect mostly the newer players, that's where they will need to evaluate the impact of slowing progression and grinds. For veterans, I don't see it having a big impact.

20 minutes ago, Bandi73 said:

Dd's. There is enough material for a decent start, completed by some fantasy.. Spain's last cruiser was the Baleares class, so...

Aye, and having French Cruisers and British BBs confirmed, Spanish DDs as a follow up would come as a natural follow up. 

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1 hour ago, ArIskandir said:

We plan to overhaul the in-game economic system and also separate it from ship exteriors Economic bonuses will be separated from signals and camouflages and be made into a stand-alone entity.

This is the scary part.  Overhauling the economy is certainly extending the grind to keep players paying for longer.  This is only good for WG. 

2 hours ago, ArIskandir said:

Submarine testing will resume. The fate of the new ship type will depend on the test results.

I'm not surprised by this.  I know everyone was pretty convinced subs would be rammed into the game.  To be fair, that isn't an unreasonable belief, and it may actually play out that way.  Me, I was sure WG was hurt by the CV rework far more than they were letting on, and they didn't want a repeat of that mistake.  I think WG is very concerned about the rapid slide of all the server populations back down to pre-lockdown numbers (with the exception of the Asian server).  It was never realistic to think the numbers would stay at the lockdown highs; but the steep downward trajectory is surely concerning for WG.  To have made no gains from the lockdown high is not a good sign.  Another disaster on the scale of the CV rework could be devastating.

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17 minutes ago, Bandi73 said:

Well... sadly this starts looking grimmer and grimmer . It is fairly obvious what's gonna happen  Signals flags begone, stacking of economic bonuses begone, flag and credits containers begone

I'm not so sure. It would be foolish for them to abandon the bonus system. I think they are just trying to let users "dress up" their ships with cosmetic skins (camos) and flags (signals) that don't provide any bonus while still keeping the bonus options through other means. Video games have been moving in this direction for years with custom skinned avatars, so why not your ships too?  They'll probably have free skins and premium skins that will cost something separate from the bonus system - another item to sell that would be optional for players.

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1 minute ago, Slimeball91 said:

This is the scary part.  Overhauling the economy is certainly extending the grind to keep players paying for longer.  This is only good for WG. 

As I said to Bandi, imo extending the grinds is a fair F2P mechanic. It is up to them to find a reasonable level of grind, squeeze too much and player will get bored and leave, but in any case, this economic tightening doesn't affect gameplay, as long as they don't link this to performance boosters to introduce more P2W elements, the in game interactions remain fair. To me it is a  much better path to walk than power creeping content.

7 minutes ago, Slimeball91 said:

I'm not surprised by this.  I know everyone was pretty convinced subs would be rammed into the game.  To be fair, that isn't an unreasonable belief, and it may actually play out that way.  Me, I was sure WG was hurt by the CV rework far more than they were letting on, and they didn't want a repeat of that mistake.  I think WG is very concerned about the rapid slide of all the server populations back down to pre-lockdown numbers (with the exception of the Asian server).  It was never realistic to think the numbers would stay at the lockdown highs; but the steep downward trajectory is surely concerning for WG.  To have made no gains from the lockdown high is not a good sign.  Another disaster on the scale of the CV rework could be devastating.

It makes sense but honestly I wasn't expecting that... It is a lot of investment going down the toilet if it doesn't work in the end. Kinda reassuring they have the maturity to cut loose if it is dragging the game down. 

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2 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

As I said to Bandi, imo extending the grinds is a fair F2P mechanic. It is up to them to find a reasonable level of grind, squeeze too much and player will get bored and leave, but in any case, this economic tightening doesn't affect gameplay, as long as they don't link this to performance boosters to introduce more P2W elements, the in game interactions remain fair. To me it is a  much better path to walk than power creeping content.

Gameplay can be affected.  As a PvE only player now I can tell you this can (and likely will) have a meaningful impact.  If co-op becomes unaffordable (and co-op economy is already precariously balanced now), it can have an impact on how things are played.  For example, only the most optimized ships will be played, and only by experienced players.  That will have a direct impact on gameplay.  This same kind of thing can happen in PvP too. 

8 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

It makes sense but honestly I wasn't expecting that... It is a lot of investment going down the toilet if it doesn't work in the end. Kinda reassuring they have the maturity to cut loose if it is dragging the game down. 

That should give you some kind of idea how much of a bloodbath the CV rework was for WG.

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24 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

Let's assume the worst and this leads to a tightening of free economic boosters... so the consequence is grinds become slower, that's it. Honestly I'm OK with that line as long as performance boosters remain on equal ground for everyone. For me that's the key aspect for a good and fair PvP F2P game, equality of performance conditions for all the players. If they want to lean hard on selling cosmetics and economic booster, I think it is a fair way to generate income... much better than selling OP ships that powercreep previous content.

Now, I really don't visualize this as "closing" opportunities but more oriented at "opening" opportunities for sales. Another set of consumables/boosters is yet another thing to buy/sell, for them represent obviously a new revenue channel, for us an opportunity for greater customization. These changes will affect mostly the newer players, that's where they will need to evaluate the impact of slowing progression and grinds. For veterans, I don't see it having a big impact.

As a company Wg has undoubtedly the right ( if not obligation) to seek up ways to monetize their product. And I support that to a great extent  That's what I was about to post.

But...... I didn't realize that gonna happen to flags too. Now, that is highly problematic. Those boosters, what you mentioned, cost credits or resources. Getting those resources is easier with..... more resources.

And lets not forget caps. The impact of the skill rework wasn't that bad. It was bad, no doubt about it, but it was...... manageable especially for long time players. But if the economy will be reworked to this extent and the possibility of stacking will be gone.......getting a cap to 21 points.......ooouch......

19 minutes ago, Tank_Grrl said:

I'm not so sure. It would be foolish for them to abandon the bonus system. I think they are just trying to let users "dress up" their ships with cosmetic skins (camos) and flags (signals) that don't provide any bonus while still keeping the bonus options through other means. Video games have been moving in this direction for years with custom skinned avatars, so why not your ships too?  They'll probably have free skins and premium skins that will cost something separate from the bonus system - another item to sell that would be optional for players.

Yeah.... that what I was about to post too and actually I did. However I'm fairly sure that we will see the introduction of a new currency also , which will be directly buyable.

Edited by Bandi73

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26 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

As I said to Bandi, imo extending the grinds is a fair F2P mechanic. It is up to them to find a reasonable level of grind, squeeze too much and player will get bored and leave, but in any case, this economic tightening doesn't affect gameplay, as long as they don't link this to performance boosters to introduce more P2W elements, the in game interactions remain fair. To me it is a  much better path to walk than power creeping content.

Yes, but.....they will power creep too :(  Super ships are coming to every tree....

My friend...I whish that what I wrote would be the worst case scenario. Sadly..... it just make sense.....

I didn't realized that their intentions involve flags too (and I actually watched the stream....)

Well.... we need to push back on this. :(

Edited by Bandi73

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My question is what'll happen if we've purchased or been awarded multiple camo for the same ship. Are we going to see some compensation given to us?

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I'm very disappointed in how WG has gone about introducing superships to the game. For a start, they've been blowing smoke about the real reason for their implementation (an economic rework). There's also been very little information about the overall plan--intended target for game balance, supership population, and matchmaking. This is despite superships already arriving in randoms on the live server.

Despite a vague commitment to increased transparency and communication from the September statement, it seems little has changed in the areas where it matters most. The amount of information in this announcement is commendable, but ultimately it gives rise to more questions than answers.

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This will help to put things into perspective, a bit.....

 

Edited by Bandi73

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18 minutes ago, Slimeball91 said:

Gameplay can be affected.  As a PvE only player now I can tell you this can (and likely will) have a meaningful impact.  If co-op becomes unaffordable (and co-op economy is already precariously balanced now), it can have an impact on how things are played.  For example, only the most optimized ships will be played, and only by experienced players.  That will have a direct impact on gameplay.  This same kind of thing can happen in PvP too. 

Agreed, a nerf to income would mean some tiers probably become prohibitive to play as F2P/Coop... doesn't makes me happy but as F2P games goes, there are worse practices. Having said that, I don't think a nerf is the end goal here... it wouldn't be good for the business of a F2P game.

21 minutes ago, Bandi73 said:

As a company Wg has undoubtedly the right ( if not obligation) to seek up ways to monetize their product. And I support that to a great extent  That's what I was about to post.

But...... I didn't realize that gonna happen to flags too. Now, that is highly problematic. Those boosters, what you mentioned, cost credits or resources. Getting those resources is easier with..... more resources.

And lets not forget caps. The impact of the skill rework wasn't that bad. It was bad, no doubt about it, but it was...... manageable especially for long time players. But if the economy will be reworked to this extent and the possibility of stacking will be gone.......getting a cap to 21 points.......ooouch......

I don't think they'll squeeze too hard the economy... this type of micro purchases work better when you are almost "right there" but need you that extra "oomph" to get it done. If you set the line too high from the start you risk not hooking players into the purchases. I bet a twinkie this goes more oriented to more micro purchases of cosmetics than a general nerf to income. 

27 minutes ago, Bandi73 said:

However I'm fairly sure that we will se introduction of a new currency also , which will be directly buyable.

It will be a new "consumable" for sure, is that the idea you mean with currency?

17 minutes ago, Bandi73 said:

Yes, but.....they will power creep too :(  Super ships are coming to every tree....

Yeah, that's what sours me deeply... the camo/flag thing read very tame but the Superships are a go and that's really hard to digest... it really baffles me people get more focused on the camos than on T11. 

17 minutes ago, JediMasterDraco said:

My question is what'll happen if we've purchased or been awarded multiple camo for the same ship. Are we going to see some compensation given to us?

Why compensation?

My theory is you get the "ancillary" for the economic bonus (which is common for all permacamos) and retain the multiple "skins" you already have. Both "ancillary" and skin are not expended when you use them, the same as Permacamos. it will be basically the same but splitted in 2 consumables.

 

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20 minutes ago, SuperSSL said:

I'm very disappointed in how WG has gone about introducing superships to the game. For a start, they've been blowing smoke about the real reason for their implementation (an economic rework). There's also been very little information about the overall plan--intended target for game balance, supership population, and matchmaking. This is despite superships already arriving in randoms on the live server.

Despite a vague commitment to increased transparency and communication from the September statement, it seems little has changed in the areas where it matters most. The amount of information in this announcement is commendable, but ultimately it gives rise to more questions than answers.

Agreed. Superships feel like a sneaky uppercut, get distracted by the Submarine jabs... a lot of footwork about economy changes, new game modes and then boom! friggin' Supership uppercut on your chin. KO. They are here and you are laying on your back thinking wth happened, why Subs had 2 years of development and these stupid Superships got expressed right into the game.

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16 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

I don't think they'll squeeze too hard the economy... this type of micro purchases work better when you are almost "right there" but need you that extra "oomph" to get it done. If you set the line too high from the start you risk not hooking players into the purchases. I bet a twinkie this goes more oriented to more micro purchases of cosmetics than a general nerf to income. 

4 hours ago, Dutchy_2019 said:

 

I think here a big problem in the communication is the fact that the developer - the Russian guy - has a somewhat limited grasp of English.

 

Things I picked up:

 

- WoWs is working on some kind of flags reward for achievements (though the old system will not get back).

 

- It seems they want to separate the economic value of camos and the actual look of the camos. The way the Russian guy explained it, it seems that you will have one 'slot' where you put the camo that everyone will see, and one 'slot' where you will put the economic benefits. Not sure to what extent the camo's in the 'looks' slot will be expended like they are now, where the '(economic) benefits' slot will be expended. So in theory you might be able to get the economic benefits of Frosty Fir Tree camo, while sailing in a different looking camo.

 Maybe this will help a bit.  On Eu we have russian speaking guys.

But...in the end is all about what gonna happen to flags. Removing them  (or their bonuses) would  mean stacking will become impossible. And that is very very bad.

Edited by Bandi73

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For me, it's mostly wait and see.

Mildly worried about the economic changes, but there's not enough details to know if it's really going to change things in the long run, or just scramble stuff around will little functional change.

New ship lines, I'll have to wait to see how they're implemented. If they're something different, that plays well, then cool. If it's some a bunch of ships with odd combinations of consumables tacked on, then there's not much interest.

Superships, not real option either way.

New game modes, we'll if it's interesting. Could be good, could be bad.

New Map, always a good thing.

New mini game thing? I'll pass judgement when I see it. Doesn't seem to be a detraction as long as people don't have to do stupid things to complete it.

Subs, never saw anything good with them, even in concept. If they test them again, realize they're a bad idea and dump them, all the better. I don't see them ever being fun for both sides and even vaguely realistic outside of scenarios specifically created for them.

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everyone must say NO to T11, I don't want all my T10s including premiums all be nerfed in 1 stroke, screw that

Edited by Happy668
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