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Captain_Benevolent_Fair

Why "Atlântico" is the worst name for a Brazilian Battleship and needs to be changed.

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Not so long ago, WG announced the Pan-American tier VIII premium dockyard battleship "Atlântico". She is a Brazilian battleship based on a combination of two main
projects, primarily Design 782 (a proposed alternative to Design 781, which was chosen by Brazil in 1914 to be built under the name "Riachuelo"), from which it takes
most of its characteristics (armor, main battery layout, hull shape), and additionally Design 686 (one of the proposals for a Brazilian battleship in 1910-1911, which
would eventually result in the "Rio de Janeiro", later "HMS Agincourt"), from which WG took the inspiration to add an intermediate set of armaments in the form of 8x2
234mm guns (Design 686 called for only 3x2 240mm guns). The ship is also presented under a series of modernizations that could've happened had she actually been built.

Historical inaccuracies with the ship itself aside, the biggest issue me and many other Brazilian players had was regarding the name chosen for the ship, "Atlântico".
This has to be one of, if not the worst case of misnaming a ship in WoWs, worse than Congress, Milano, and Yukon combined. In this post, I intend to explain why it's
such a poor choice, and how it could and should be changed. Before I do that, however, I would like to point out that I tried reaching out to WG to raise this issue
through our Brazilian CM, and the fact I'm writing this should show how successful I was, so my only option is to reach out to the community, and hopefully expose the
issue enough for WG to at least explain their reasoning for choosing such a terrible name, and ideally changing it before it's too late.

So, why is "Atlântico" such a bad name? Simply put, this battleship is a modified design from 1914. Brazil would only name a ship "Atlântico" 104 years later, in 2018,
with the purchase of the British carrier "HMS Ocean". To put it into perspective, in 1914 Brazil hadn't even celebrated 100 years since its independence. The name is
completely disconnected from any standards the Brazilian Navy would've had at that time. I can only assume that the reason for choosing this name had more to do with
marketing than history, since "Atlântico" being the name of the main capital ship in the Brazilian Navy right now might attract more players who neither know nor care
about Brazilian naval history, but are aware of our Navy's recent acquisitions, if only by name.

While Brazil may have only had two dreadnought battleships, plus a third that was built, but never served Brazil, and a fourth that was ordered, named, and then
canceled, that is still four named ships of this type, enough to form a pattern to understand naming conventions in the Brazilian Navy, so let's take a look at those
first:

-"Minas Geraes", "São Paulo" and "Rio de Janeiro": These three Brazilian states from the southeast region gave name to three Brazilian dreadnought battleships. They
were (and still are) all highly populated, and had a strong economy, making them particularly valuable for the nation, and worthy of having their names used in what
were the most powerful ships in the Brazilian Navy at the time. From these examples, it's very clear that Brazil had a standard for naming dreadnought battleships
after its most relevant states.

From that, we can guess what other Brazilian ships of this type could be named, states such as Paraná and Santa Catarina (also important states with
economic relevance, they are located in the south region of Brazil, between São Paulo and Rio Grande do Sul, the latter having its name used in one of our Bahia-class
cruisers, also acquired in the early 20th century), or Pernambuco (State in the northeastern region, part of the Brazilian coast, and as such, also an important state,
in fact, "Pernambuco" was one of the main names considered for our modern carrier "Atlântico") or even Amazonas (well known for its great size and major forests, and
also for having its name used in the frigate comanded by Admiral Barroso, one of the most famous Brazilian Admirals, during the Battle of Riachuelo. The name was going
to be used in one of the Barroso-class cruisers, the sistership to the tier II cruiser "USS Albany"), though any of our 26 States' names would be preferable over the
Atlantic Ocean.

-"Riachuelo": The last of the dreadnought battleships Brazil tried to acquire changed the naming convention of the previous dreadnoughts of the nation. Instead of being
named after a Brazilian State, it was named after the Battle of the Riachuelo, a major and decisive battle in the Paraguayan War, won in 1865 by the naval forces of the
Empire of Brazil, led by the previously mentioned Admiral Barroso in his flagship, the "Amazonas". The name "Riachuelo", chosen to be carried by this Brazilian dreadnought,
would become a common name for Brazilian submarines in modern times. During the last decade of the Empire of Brazil, the navy named it's largest battleship, acquired in
France, as "Riachuelo", setting an important precedent in naming conventions and breaking away from the naming conventions of man-o-wars (Brazil was the only nation in
South America to operate such vessels).

Based on the fact that this name remained extremely relevant, we can look into other names that also relate to the Paraguayan War in order to find something more suitable
for the inaptly named "Atlântico". One big example is "Humaitá", a name that refers to the Fortress of Humaitá, a major fortification in the Paraguay River, that was
considered to be the "Gibraltar of South America". Seen as the main bulwark closing access to Paraguay by river, the fortress was taken by the Brazilian forces in 1868,
in what became known as the Siege of Humaitá, yet another major victory in the Paraguayan War that is celebrated to this day alongside the Battle of Riachuelo, throughout
the 20th Century and in modern times, wherever there's a Brazilian submarine named "Riachuelo", you can expect the next ship in the class to be named "Humaitá".

Another example is "Aquidabã" (or its old orthography: "Aquidaban")*, a name that refers to the Aquidabán River, where the last battle of the Paraguayan War took place, in
1870. The name was chosen to become the second battleship under the Riachuelo-class (although slightly smaller than the lead ship) in the 1880's. Unlike "Riachuelo" and
"Humaitá", the name "Aquidabã" was not used after 1906, when the Brazilian ironclad carrying the name was sunk in an accident, probably because the battleship was used as
flagship of the opposing forces during the civil war that broke out after the monarchy was overthrown in 1889. Part of the navy rebelled against presidential authoritarianism
- high-ranking officers included - leading to an episode know as "Revolta da Armada" (literally, revolt of the navy), which joined forces with the Federalist Revolt raging
in the southern states of Brazil. This rebellion would set two groups inside the Brazilian Navy and the rivalry would last for another half century. To avoid further
animosity inside the navy, the name "Aquidabã" hasn't been used since. Regardless, the name still fits the naming conventions of Brazil, especially for a ship based on an
alternative design for the dreadnought "Riachuelo".

Additionally we can also extend this standard to include other names used by Brazilian ironclads and frigates during or after the end of the Paraguayan War, as well as
names of any ships that took part in the major battles of the conflict. Naturally, this once again leads us to some previously mentioned ships, like the frigate
"Amazonas", but we also get a few new names, such as "Ipiranga", "Beberibe", "Belmonte", "Araguari", "Iguatemi", "Mariz e Barros", "Herval", "Cabral", "Lima Barros",
"Silvado", "Sete de Setembro", "Pará", "Alagoas", "Piauí", "Ceará" and "Santa Catarina" (and wouldn't you know, these last five names are based on Brazilian States,
it's almost as if we usually name our ships after those, rather than... the ocean). Many of these names were used and re-used to designate coastal and fluvial monitors
and smaller armored vessels during the late 19th and early 20th centuries.


So, that's what we get with the existing standards for Brazilian battleship names, but I am not done yet. I am not joking when I say "Atlântico" is one of the worst
names WG could've chosen, as it is so bad we Brazilians would rather get something akin to the american cruiser "Congress", a name that isn't necessarily fitting for
a ship of the type WG wishes to introduce, but at the very least, it's a name that was used before in a ship of the same Navy, any ship at all. While less than ideal,
there are some good names with meaningful history behind them that can result from this otherwise lesser standard, for example:

-"Niterói" (or its older orthography: "Nichteroy"): Named after the Brazilian City of Niterói, which used to be the Capital of the State of Rio de Janeiro. The name 
was used by a few Brazilian ships throughout history, a notable one was the frigate "Niterói", the first ship in which served the legendary Admiral Joaquim Marques Lisboa, 
Marquis of Tamandaré, back in 1823. It would also be the name of the modern Niterói-class frigate that would carry the ashes of this same Admiral, now recognized as the
Patron of the Brazilian Navy, back to the city where he was born (Rio Grande, in the State of Rio Grande do Sul) in 1994. While not within our standards to name a Battleship
after a city, the fact this name also carries with it the history of the Patron of the Brazilian Navy does give it much more value, more than... the ocean.

-"Rio Grande": It seems pointless to repeat myself, but once again, this is the name of a city in the State of Rio Grande do Sul, the historical significance of which
comes from being the birth place and final resting place of the Patron of the Brazilian Navy. The name was used before by a Pará-class monitor that participated in the
Siege of Humaitá.

-"Solimões": The name refers to the Solimões River, and was commonly used by Brazilian monitors.

-"Paraguassú": Another name of a river used by a brazilian monitor.

-"Brasil": Much like "France" or "United States", Brazil also named an ironclad after the entire nation.

-"Angostura": Not as well known as "Humaitá", Angostura was also the name of a Paraguayan fortress that was taken by Brazilian forces in 1868, during the Paraguayan War.
The name was first used in an Imperial Marinheiro-class corvette, but was also chosen as the name for the fourth modern Riachuelo/Scorpéne-class submarine, earning a
meaningful spot alongside her undeniably more famous sisters, "Riachuelo", "Humaitá" and, to a lesser extent, "Tonelero".

-"Tonelero": A name used mainly by Brazilian submarines of the Oberon and Scorpéne classes, it references the Battle of the Tonelero Pass from 1851, where Brazilian
forces broke through the forces of the Argentine Confederation. For even longer than "Angostura", the name "Tonelero" stood side by side with "Riachuelo" and "Humaitá".

-"Independência": Literally the word "independence", this name references the Brazilian Independence. It was considered for a Brazilian pre-dreadnought, but would
end up only being used with any level of significance in modern times as the name of one of the Niterói-class frigates.

-"Constituição": Literally the word "constitution", it is currently the name of another Niterói-class frigate, but was also used in the past to name a Brazilian frigate
that took part in the Cisplatin War.

-"Vitória": Literally the word "victory", it was for a brief period the name of the Brazilian monitor later renamed "Paraguassú".

-"Guanabara": The name used notably by one of the Balao-class submarines transfered to Brazil, and currently used by a patrol boat, it refers to the Guanabara Bay, in
Rio de janeiro.

-"Recife": The name of the Capital of the State of Pernambuco, it was not commonly used, but happened to be the name of a Brazilian frigate that served as our flagship
in the Battle of the Tonelero Pass.

-"União": Literally the word "union", it is currently known as the name of yet another Niterói-class frigate, but was also the name of a Brazilian corvette during the
Battle of the Tonelero Pass.


I should make it clear that I don't like all of these names, but all of them would be preferable over "Atlântico", at worst they have more meaning and history behind
them than "Atlântico", and at best they actually fit with the naming conventions of the Brazilian Navy in 1914.

If it was up to me, my ideal choices would be "Aquidabã", "Humaitá", "Paraná", "Santa Catarina", "Pernambuco", and "Amazonas". Others may have different preferences.

As a reminder of how bad the name that WG chose is, the official launch of World of Warships predates the first Brazilian ship named "Atlântico", this game is older
than the name WG chose for a battleship from 1914, you can't make this stuff up.

So please, WG, listen to the very community you are trying to please with this ship, and change its name. Thank you.

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9 minutes ago, Captain_Benevolent_Fair said:

Not so long ago, WG announced the Pan-American tier VIII premium dockyard battleship "Atlântico". She is a Brazilian battleship based on a combination of two main
projects, primarily Design 782 (a proposed alternative to Design 781, which was chosen by Brazil in 1914 to be built under the name "Riachuelo"), from which it takes
most of its characteristics (armor, main battery layout, hull shape), and additionally Design 686 (one of the proposals for a Brazilian battleship in 1910-1911, which
would eventually result in the "Rio de Janeiro", later "HMS Agincourt"), from which WG took the inspiration to add an intermediate set of armaments in the form of 8x2
234mm guns (Design 686 called for only 3x2 240mm guns). The ship is also presented under a series of modernizations that could've happened had she actually been built.

Historical inaccuracies with the ship itself aside, the biggest issue me and many other Brazilian players had was regarding the name chosen for the ship, "Atlântico".
This has to be one of, if not the worst case of misnaming a ship in WoWs, worse than Congress, Milano, and Yukon combined. In this post, I intend to explain why it's
such a poor choice, and how it could and should be changed. Before I do that, however, I would like to point out that I tried reaching out to WG to raise this issue
through our Brazilian CM, and the fact I'm writing this should show how successful I was, so my only option is to reach out to the community, and hopefully expose the
issue enough for WG to at least explain their reasoning for choosing such a terrible name, and ideally changing it before it's too late.

So, why is "Atlântico" such a bad name? Simply put, this battleship is a modified design from 1914. Brazil would only name a ship "Atlântico" 104 years later, in 2018,
with the purchase of the British carrier "HMS Ocean". To put it into perspective, in 1914 Brazil hadn't even celebrated 100 years since its independence. The name is
completely disconnected from any standards the Brazilian Navy would've had at that time. I can only assume that the reason for choosing this name had more to do with
marketing than history, since "Atlântico" being the name of the main capital ship in the Brazilian Navy right now might attract more players who neither know nor care
about Brazilian naval history, but are aware of our Navy's recent acquisitions, if only by name.

While Brazil may have only had two dreadnought battleships, plus a third that was built, but never served Brazil, and a fourth that was ordered, named, and then
canceled, that is still four named ships of this type, enough to form a pattern to understand naming conventions in the Brazilian Navy, so let's take a look at those
first:

-"Minas Geraes", "São Paulo" and "Rio de Janeiro": These three Brazilian states from the southeast region gave name to three Brazilian dreadnought battleships. They
were (and still are) all highly populated, and had a strong economy, making them particularly valuable for the nation, and worthy of having their names used in what
were the most powerful ships in the Brazilian Navy at the time. From these examples, it's very clear that Brazil had a standard for naming dreadnought battleships
after its most relevant states.

From that, we can guess what other Brazilian ships of this type could be named, states such as Paraná and Santa Catarina (also important states with
economic relevance, they are located in the south region of Brazil, between São Paulo and Rio Grande do Sul, the latter having its name used in one of our Bahia-class
cruisers, also acquired in the early 20th century), or Pernambuco (State in the northeastern region, part of the Brazilian coast, and as such, also an important state,
in fact, "Pernambuco" was one of the main names considered for our modern carrier "Atlântico") or even Amazonas (well known for its great size and major forests, and
also for having its name used in the frigate comanded by Admiral Barroso, one of the most famous Brazilian Admirals, during the Battle of Riachuelo. The name was going
to be used in one of the Barroso-class cruisers, the sistership to the tier II cruiser "USS Albany"), though any of our 26 States' names would be preferable over the
Atlantic Ocean.

-"Riachuelo": The last of the dreadnought battleships Brazil tried to acquire changed the naming convention of the previous dreadnoughts of the nation. Instead of being
named after a Brazilian State, it was named after the Battle of the Riachuelo, a major and decisive battle in the Paraguayan War, won in 1865 by the naval forces of the
Empire of Brazil, led by the previously mentioned Admiral Barroso in his flagship, the "Amazonas". The name "Riachuelo", chosen to be carried by this Brazilian dreadnought,
would become a common name for Brazilian submarines in modern times. During the last decade of the Empire of Brazil, the navy named it's largest battleship, acquired in
France, as "Riachuelo", setting an important precedent in naming conventions and breaking away from the naming conventions of man-o-wars (Brazil was the only nation in
South America to operate such vessels).

Based on the fact that this name remained extremely relevant, we can look into other names that also relate to the Paraguayan War in order to find something more suitable
for the inaptly named "Atlântico". One big example is "Humaitá", a name that refers to the Fortress of Humaitá, a major fortification in the Paraguay River, that was
considered to be the "Gibraltar of South America". Seen as the main bulwark closing access to Paraguay by river, the fortress was taken by the Brazilian forces in 1868,
in what became known as the Siege of Humaitá, yet another major victory in the Paraguayan War that is celebrated to this day alongside the Battle of Riachuelo, throughout
the 20th Century and in modern times, wherever there's a Brazilian submarine named "Riachuelo", you can expect the next ship in the class to be named "Humaitá".

Another example is "Aquidabã" (or its old orthography: "Aquidaban")*, a name that refers to the Aquidabán River, where the last battle of the Paraguayan War took place, in
1870. The name was chosen to become the second battleship under the Riachuelo-class (although slightly smaller than the lead ship) in the 1880's. Unlike "Riachuelo" and
"Humaitá", the name "Aquidabã" was not used after 1906, when the Brazilian ironclad carrying the name was sunk in an accident, probably because the battleship was used as
flagship of the opposing forces during the civil war that broke out after the monarchy was overthrown in 1889. Part of the navy rebelled against presidential authoritarianism
- high-ranking officers included - leading to an episode know as "Revolta da Armada" (literally, revolt of the navy), which joined forces with the Federalist Revolt raging
in the southern states of Brazil. This rebellion would set two groups inside the Brazilian Navy and the rivalry would last for another half century. To avoid further
animosity inside the navy, the name "Aquidabã" hasn't been used since. Regardless, the name still fits the naming conventions of Brazil, especially for a ship based on an
alternative design for the dreadnought "Riachuelo".

Additionally we can also extend this standard to include other names used by Brazilian ironclads and frigates during or after the end of the Paraguayan War, as well as
names of any ships that took part in the major battles of the conflict. Naturally, this once again leads us to some previously mentioned ships, like the frigate
"Amazonas", but we also get a few new names, such as "Ipiranga", "Beberibe", "Belmonte", "Araguari", "Iguatemi", "Mariz e Barros", "Herval", "Cabral", "Lima Barros",
"Silvado", "Sete de Setembro", "Pará", "Alagoas", "Piauí", "Ceará" and "Santa Catarina" (and wouldn't you know, these last five names are based on Brazilian States,
it's almost as if we usually name our ships after those, rather than... the ocean). Many of these names were used and re-used to designate coastal and fluvial monitors
and smaller armored vessels during the late 19th and early 20th centuries.


So, that's what we get with the existing standards for Brazilian battleship names, but I am not done yet. I am not joking when I say "Atlântico" is one of the worst
names WG could've chosen, as it is so bad we Brazilians would rather get something akin to the american cruiser "Congress", a name that isn't necessarily fitting for
a ship of the type WG wishes to introduce, but at the very least, it's a name that was used before in a ship of the same Navy, any ship at all. While less than ideal,
there are some good names with meaningful history behind them that can result from this otherwise lesser standard, for example:

-"Niterói" (or its older orthography: "Nichteroy"): Named after the Brazilian City of Niterói, which used to be the Capital of the State of Rio de Janeiro. The name 
was used by a few Brazilian ships throughout history, a notable one was the frigate "Niterói", the first ship in which served the legendary Admiral Joaquim Marques Lisboa, 
Marquis of Tamandaré, back in 1823. It would also be the name of the modern Niterói-class frigate that would carry the ashes of this same Admiral, now recognized as the
Patron of the Brazilian Navy, back to the city where he was born (Rio Grande, in the State of Rio Grande do Sul) in 1994. While not within our standards to name a Battleship
after a city, the fact this name also carries with it the history of the Patron of the Brazilian Navy does give it much more value, more than... the ocean.

-"Rio Grande": It seems pointless to repeat myself, but once again, this is the name of a city in the State of Rio Grande do Sul, the historical significance of which
comes from being the birth place and final resting place of the Patron of the Brazilian Navy. The name was used before by a Pará-class monitor that participated in the
Siege of Humaitá.

-"Solimões": The name refers to the Solimões River, and was commonly used by Brazilian monitors.

-"Paraguassú": Another name of a river used by a brazilian monitor.

-"Brasil": Much like "France" or "United States", Brazil also named an ironclad after the entire nation.

-"Angostura": Not as well known as "Humaitá", Angostura was also the name of a Paraguayan fortress that was taken by Brazilian forces in 1868, during the Paraguayan War.
The name was first used in an Imperial Marinheiro-class corvette, but was also chosen as the name for the fourth modern Riachuelo/Scorpéne-class submarine, earning a
meaningful spot alongside her undeniably more famous sisters, "Riachuelo", "Humaitá" and, to a lesser extent, "Tonelero".

-"Tonelero": A name used mainly by Brazilian submarines of the Oberon and Scorpéne classes, it references the Battle of the Tonelero Pass from 1851, where Brazilian
forces broke through the forces of the Argentine Confederation. For even longer than "Angostura", the name "Tonelero" stood side by side with "Riachuelo" and "Humaitá".

-"Independência": Literally the word "independence", this name references the Brazilian Independence. It was considered for a Brazilian pre-dreadnought, but would
end up only being used with any level of significance in modern times as the name of one of the Niterói-class frigates.

-"Constituição": Literally the word "constitution", it is currently the name of another Niterói-class frigate, but was also used in the past to name a Brazilian frigate
that took part in the Cisplatin War.

-"Vitória": Literally the word "victory", it was for a brief period the name of the Brazilian monitor later renamed "Paraguassú".

-"Guanabara": The name used notably by one of the Balao-class submarines transfered to Brazil, and currently used by a patrol boat, it refers to the Guanabara Bay, in
Rio de janeiro.

-"Recife": The name of the Capital of the State of Pernambuco, it was not commonly used, but happened to be the name of a Brazilian frigate that served as our flagship
in the Battle of the Tonelero Pass.

-"União": Literally the word "union", it is currently known as the name of yet another Niterói-class frigate, but was also the name of a Brazilian corvette during the
Battle of the Tonelero Pass.


I should make it clear that I don't like all of these names, but all of them would be preferable over "Atlântico", at worst they have more meaning and history behind
them than "Atlântico", and at best they actually fit with the naming conventions of the Brazilian Navy in 1914.

If it was up to me, my ideal choices would be "Aquidabã", "Humaitá", "Paraná", "Santa Catarina", "Pernambuco", and "Amazonas". Others may have different preferences.

As a reminder of how bad the name that WG chose is, the official launch of World of Warships predates the first Brazilian ship named "Atlântico", this game is older
than the name WG chose for a battleship from 1914, you can't make this stuff up.

So please, WG, listen to the very community you are trying to please with this ship, and change its name. Thank you.

good case...but since this game is all make believe...what difference does it make...Canada would never HAVE had a BB....BUT THAT DOESNT SELL,,,they do what they want...you should know that by now..happy hunting  

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44 minutes ago, Captain_Benevolent_Fair said:

snip

You make a good exposition, but you are missing a significant detail... tho being based on a Brazilian design, the ship will sail under the Pan-American flag, not the Brazilian Flag. "Atlantico" is a much more "generic" name, easier to market to the rest of Pan-Am. While "Pernambuco" or "Amazonas" would make more sense for a Brazilian ship, "Atlantico" makes more sense for a Pan-Am ship while still being distinctively Brazilian given it shares your current Flag Ship name (and the distinctive accent). 

Edited by ArIskandir
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You expect logical ship naming conventions from a company that gives us entire navies of paper mache warships?  Shame on you.

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1 hour ago, Captain_Benevolent_Fair said:

Not so long ago, WG announced the Pan-American tier VIII premium dockyard battleship "Atlântico". She is a Brazilian battleship based on a combination of two main
projects, primarily Design 782 (a proposed alternative to Design 781, which was chosen by Brazil in 1914 to be built under the name "Riachuelo"), from which it takes
most of its characteristics (armor, main battery layout, hull shape), and additionally Design 686 (one of the proposals for a Brazilian battleship in 1910-1911, which
would eventually result in the "Rio de Janeiro", later "HMS Agincourt"), from which WG took the inspiration to add an intermediate set of armaments in the form of 8x2
234mm guns (Design 686 called for only 3x2 240mm guns). The ship is also presented under a series of modernizations that could've happened had she actually been built.

Historical inaccuracies with the ship itself aside, the biggest issue me and many other Brazilian players had was regarding the name chosen for the ship, "Atlântico".
This has to be one of, if not the worst case of misnaming a ship in WoWs, worse than Congress, Milano, and Yukon combined. In this post, I intend to explain why it's
such a poor choice, and how it could and should be changed. Before I do that, however, I would like to point out that I tried reaching out to WG to raise this issue
through our Brazilian CM, and the fact I'm writing this should show how successful I was, so my only option is to reach out to the community, and hopefully expose the
issue enough for WG to at least explain their reasoning for choosing such a terrible name, and ideally changing it before it's too late.

So, why is "Atlântico" such a bad name? Simply put, this battleship is a modified design from 1914. Brazil would only name a ship "Atlântico" 104 years later, in 2018,
with the purchase of the British carrier "HMS Ocean". To put it into perspective, in 1914 Brazil hadn't even celebrated 100 years since its independence. The name is
completely disconnected from any standards the Brazilian Navy would've had at that time. I can only assume that the reason for choosing this name had more to do with
marketing than history, since "Atlântico" being the name of the main capital ship in the Brazilian Navy right now might attract more players who neither know nor care
about Brazilian naval history, but are aware of our Navy's recent acquisitions, if only by name.

While Brazil may have only had two dreadnought battleships, plus a third that was built, but never served Brazil, and a fourth that was ordered, named, and then
canceled, that is still four named ships of this type, enough to form a pattern to understand naming conventions in the Brazilian Navy, so let's take a look at those
first:

-"Minas Geraes", "São Paulo" and "Rio de Janeiro": These three Brazilian states from the southeast region gave name to three Brazilian dreadnought battleships. They
were (and still are) all highly populated, and had a strong economy, making them particularly valuable for the nation, and worthy of having their names used in what
were the most powerful ships in the Brazilian Navy at the time. From these examples, it's very clear that Brazil had a standard for naming dreadnought battleships
after its most relevant states.

From that, we can guess what other Brazilian ships of this type could be named, states such as Paraná and Santa Catarina (also important states with
economic relevance, they are located in the south region of Brazil, between São Paulo and Rio Grande do Sul, the latter having its name used in one of our Bahia-class
cruisers, also acquired in the early 20th century), or Pernambuco (State in the northeastern region, part of the Brazilian coast, and as such, also an important state,
in fact, "Pernambuco" was one of the main names considered for our modern carrier "Atlântico") or even Amazonas (well known for its great size and major forests, and
also for having its name used in the frigate comanded by Admiral Barroso, one of the most famous Brazilian Admirals, during the Battle of Riachuelo. The name was going
to be used in one of the Barroso-class cruisers, the sistership to the tier II cruiser "USS Albany"), though any of our 26 States' names would be preferable over the
Atlantic Ocean.

-"Riachuelo": The last of the dreadnought battleships Brazil tried to acquire changed the naming convention of the previous dreadnoughts of the nation. Instead of being
named after a Brazilian State, it was named after the Battle of the Riachuelo, a major and decisive battle in the Paraguayan War, won in 1865 by the naval forces of the
Empire of Brazil, led by the previously mentioned Admiral Barroso in his flagship, the "Amazonas". The name "Riachuelo", chosen to be carried by this Brazilian dreadnought,
would become a common name for Brazilian submarines in modern times. During the last decade of the Empire of Brazil, the navy named it's largest battleship, acquired in
France, as "Riachuelo", setting an important precedent in naming conventions and breaking away from the naming conventions of man-o-wars (Brazil was the only nation in
South America to operate such vessels).

Based on the fact that this name remained extremely relevant, we can look into other names that also relate to the Paraguayan War in order to find something more suitable
for the inaptly named "Atlântico". One big example is "Humaitá", a name that refers to the Fortress of Humaitá, a major fortification in the Paraguay River, that was
considered to be the "Gibraltar of South America". Seen as the main bulwark closing access to Paraguay by river, the fortress was taken by the Brazilian forces in 1868,
in what became known as the Siege of Humaitá, yet another major victory in the Paraguayan War that is celebrated to this day alongside the Battle of Riachuelo, throughout
the 20th Century and in modern times, wherever there's a Brazilian submarine named "Riachuelo", you can expect the next ship in the class to be named "Humaitá".

Another example is "Aquidabã" (or its old orthography: "Aquidaban")*, a name that refers to the Aquidabán River, where the last battle of the Paraguayan War took place, in
1870. The name was chosen to become the second battleship under the Riachuelo-class (although slightly smaller than the lead ship) in the 1880's. Unlike "Riachuelo" and
"Humaitá", the name "Aquidabã" was not used after 1906, when the Brazilian ironclad carrying the name was sunk in an accident, probably because the battleship was used as
flagship of the opposing forces during the civil war that broke out after the monarchy was overthrown in 1889. Part of the navy rebelled against presidential authoritarianism
- high-ranking officers included - leading to an episode know as "Revolta da Armada" (literally, revolt of the navy), which joined forces with the Federalist Revolt raging
in the southern states of Brazil. This rebellion would set two groups inside the Brazilian Navy and the rivalry would last for another half century. To avoid further
animosity inside the navy, the name "Aquidabã" hasn't been used since. Regardless, the name still fits the naming conventions of Brazil, especially for a ship based on an
alternative design for the dreadnought "Riachuelo".

Additionally we can also extend this standard to include other names used by Brazilian ironclads and frigates during or after the end of the Paraguayan War, as well as
names of any ships that took part in the major battles of the conflict. Naturally, this once again leads us to some previously mentioned ships, like the frigate
"Amazonas", but we also get a few new names, such as "Ipiranga", "Beberibe", "Belmonte", "Araguari", "Iguatemi", "Mariz e Barros", "Herval", "Cabral", "Lima Barros",
"Silvado", "Sete de Setembro", "Pará", "Alagoas", "Piauí", "Ceará" and "Santa Catarina" (and wouldn't you know, these last five names are based on Brazilian States,
it's almost as if we usually name our ships after those, rather than... the ocean). Many of these names were used and re-used to designate coastal and fluvial monitors
and smaller armored vessels during the late 19th and early 20th centuries.


So, that's what we get with the existing standards for Brazilian battleship names, but I am not done yet. I am not joking when I say "Atlântico" is one of the worst
names WG could've chosen, as it is so bad we Brazilians would rather get something akin to the american cruiser "Congress", a name that isn't necessarily fitting for
a ship of the type WG wishes to introduce, but at the very least, it's a name that was used before in a ship of the same Navy, any ship at all. While less than ideal,
there are some good names with meaningful history behind them that can result from this otherwise lesser standard, for example:

-"Niterói" (or its older orthography: "Nichteroy"): Named after the Brazilian City of Niterói, which used to be the Capital of the State of Rio de Janeiro. The name 
was used by a few Brazilian ships throughout history, a notable one was the frigate "Niterói", the first ship in which served the legendary Admiral Joaquim Marques Lisboa, 
Marquis of Tamandaré, back in 1823. It would also be the name of the modern Niterói-class frigate that would carry the ashes of this same Admiral, now recognized as the
Patron of the Brazilian Navy, back to the city where he was born (Rio Grande, in the State of Rio Grande do Sul) in 1994. While not within our standards to name a Battleship
after a city, the fact this name also carries with it the history of the Patron of the Brazilian Navy does give it much more value, more than... the ocean.

-"Rio Grande": It seems pointless to repeat myself, but once again, this is the name of a city in the State of Rio Grande do Sul, the historical significance of which
comes from being the birth place and final resting place of the Patron of the Brazilian Navy. The name was used before by a Pará-class monitor that participated in the
Siege of Humaitá.

-"Solimões": The name refers to the Solimões River, and was commonly used by Brazilian monitors.

-"Paraguassú": Another name of a river used by a brazilian monitor.

-"Brasil": Much like "France" or "United States", Brazil also named an ironclad after the entire nation.

-"Angostura": Not as well known as "Humaitá", Angostura was also the name of a Paraguayan fortress that was taken by Brazilian forces in 1868, during the Paraguayan War.
The name was first used in an Imperial Marinheiro-class corvette, but was also chosen as the name for the fourth modern Riachuelo/Scorpéne-class submarine, earning a
meaningful spot alongside her undeniably more famous sisters, "Riachuelo", "Humaitá" and, to a lesser extent, "Tonelero".

-"Tonelero": A name used mainly by Brazilian submarines of the Oberon and Scorpéne classes, it references the Battle of the Tonelero Pass from 1851, where Brazilian
forces broke through the forces of the Argentine Confederation. For even longer than "Angostura", the name "Tonelero" stood side by side with "Riachuelo" and "Humaitá".

-"Independência": Literally the word "independence", this name references the Brazilian Independence. It was considered for a Brazilian pre-dreadnought, but would
end up only being used with any level of significance in modern times as the name of one of the Niterói-class frigates.

-"Constituição": Literally the word "constitution", it is currently the name of another Niterói-class frigate, but was also used in the past to name a Brazilian frigate
that took part in the Cisplatin War.

-"Vitória": Literally the word "victory", it was for a brief period the name of the Brazilian monitor later renamed "Paraguassú".

-"Guanabara": The name used notably by one of the Balao-class submarines transfered to Brazil, and currently used by a patrol boat, it refers to the Guanabara Bay, in
Rio de janeiro.

-"Recife": The name of the Capital of the State of Pernambuco, it was not commonly used, but happened to be the name of a Brazilian frigate that served as our flagship
in the Battle of the Tonelero Pass.

-"União": Literally the word "union", it is currently known as the name of yet another Niterói-class frigate, but was also the name of a Brazilian corvette during the
Battle of the Tonelero Pass.


I should make it clear that I don't like all of these names, but all of them would be preferable over "Atlântico", at worst they have more meaning and history behind
them than "Atlântico", and at best they actually fit with the naming conventions of the Brazilian Navy in 1914.

If it was up to me, my ideal choices would be "Aquidabã", "Humaitá", "Paraná", "Santa Catarina", "Pernambuco", and "Amazonas". Others may have different preferences.

As a reminder of how bad the name that WG chose is, the official launch of World of Warships predates the first Brazilian ship named "Atlântico", this game is older
than the name WG chose for a battleship from 1914, you can't make this stuff up.

So please, WG, listen to the very community you are trying to please with this ship, and change its name. Thank you.

They didn’t name Yukon it’s intended name they Littlewhitemouse and Chobitsu wanted. Sometimes they listen to name suggestions, sometimes not. This was a good suggestion though. 

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So the long story short is that brazil never had any interest in naming any ships after the atlantic ocean untill a few years ago, and a name that reflects something of the country of Brazil would be much more on brand?

I'm with you.

But be warned, it will take lots of pressure to get WG to act on this. My attempts to get Didos camo changed still have not yielded anything useful and I have done darn near everything I can to make it happen. Still in talks so there is still hope, but getting WG to make a change is a uphill battle for even the most minor things.

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just appreciating the extensive prep, layout, explanation, etc all, .... gg

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Not sure the name really matters for a ship that didn't exist but gl with it OP. I don't care what they call it I just want it and those secondary's. :Smile_izmena::cap_rambo::fish_haloween: 

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Atlantico doesn't really seem to fit for a battleship like this, to be honest, it doesn't give me any clue of which nation the ship is part of and I do really believe it needs a name according to Brazil since in the dev blog they say is a Brazilian battleship. I can imagine that selecting a historical name could be tricky but there has to be some name that can be used and fits better with the nation of Brazil, Atlantico is not a good name and I'm really interested in the ship but the name doesn't seem to fit with the ship. I really hope we can get a different name on this one cause honestly I really want the ship but another name will be great if you ask me, I like the name of Minas Gerais is one of the names I would love to see in the game but is just my personal opinion but WG please make it happen. :Smile_great:

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2 hours ago, Captain_Benevolent_Fair said:

worse than Congress,

?!?! Congress is a historical & legitimate name for an American cruiser, and was one of the ship names considered for the project that became USS Lexington & Saratoga.

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"If it was up to me, my ideal choices would be "Aquidabã", "Humaitá", "Paraná", "Santa Catarina", "Pernambuco", and "Amazonas". Others may have different preferences."   

Any of the above names would be good as they capture in the name part of the History of Brazil. I hope WG does listen and change the name. Thank you for explaining this.

 

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3 hours ago, Captain_Benevolent_Fair said:

worse than Congress, Milano, and Yukon combined. 

 

image.jpeg.5e6ae5a1b6db26f4b7633e0fef38ad2b.jpeg

 

Other than that, very convincing. +1

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Considering the absolutely hilarious mess that went on with WG and Yukon, I wouldn't expect much. Great suggestions but considering the trends? Good luck lol.

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So, a pre-WW1 conceived dreadnought battleship as a tier 8 dockyard ship?

With all the limitations dreadnoughts demonstrated (and most were scrapped by WW2's beginning, or relegated to floating training ships instead of first-rate ships-of-the-line), I can see this ship potentially being their worst dockyard ship ever.

Someone recommended this to me from their Kindle collection, read it this past weekend, not bad. I might have to buy more of these.

https://www.amazon.com/South-American-Battleships-1908-59-dreadnought/dp/1472825101/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=South+American+battleships&qid=1643749042&s=amazon-devices&sr=1-1

image.png.b56e43c2efa48e2fdbf2e6eb74bca32a.png

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I agree that Atlântico is a bad name for this ship. (I also would've preferred a proper Design 686 as a T7 premium, but T8 is the money tier so it's natural WG would make a mashup that can fit there. Plus she's already been fully modeled so that ship has sailed.) 

I can understand not using the names Minas Geraes (she's the best choice for a T3 Pan-Am tech tree ship), Rio de Janeiro (WG could easily copy-paste Agincourt as a Pan-Am premium the same way they copy-pasted Albany as Almirante Abreu) or Riachuelo (she'sequally obvious choice for a T6 tech tree BB). But São Paulo and Aquidabã would both work well, and the other name would still be available for whichever paper ship goes at T7 of the tech tree.

Hell, even going full alt-history by calling the ship Dom Pedro II and having it fly the Imperial ensign would be better than Atlântico.

 

21 hours ago, black_hull4 said:

?!?! Congress is a historical & legitimate name for an American cruiser, and was one of the ship names considered for the project that became USS Lexington & Saratoga.

Congress would be a very legitimate name for a battlecruiser (CC). But it's an unlikely name for a large cruiser (CB). All 6 large cruisers ordered were named for territories.

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4 hours ago, Lord_Magus said:

Congress would be a very legitimate name for a battlecruiser (CC). But it's an unlikely name for a large cruiser (CB)

Do NOT go down that hole. No legitimate difference exists, and Wargaming doesn't acknowledge it anyways.

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Guess your argument was valid enough

image.png.797dd14925d3b486980c63ca9e069a80.png
(From the WOWS CC discord)

 

Edited by Elijah2159

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That Kindle book on the South American BBs was an interesting read: every major country down there quelled naval mutinies at least once, often involving at least one of their dreadnoughts.. Could make the joke of nicknaming the dockyard ship The Bounty. (Would that translate to "La Recompensa', or similar?)

With the era of dreadnoughts though coming to a tactical end (no longer first-rate ships of the line) by the mid-1920s as more modern designs evolved, a dreadnought-based tier 8 is going to be an extreme balancing act. Otherwise, if its turret configuration becomes the standard A-B-X-Y, then it's just a regular battleship.

Although I wholly understand Maredraco's mentioning of potentially renaming the ship Deodoro, the original Deodoro was an 1890s coastal ship, not far off from the Mikasa in comparison. As such, I could see THAT name more akin to an early ship in the Dockyard path, as how HMS Dreadnaught was in the Marlborough chain.   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deodoro-class_coastal_defense_ship

Dom Pedro II would be wholly out of the question: he was the deposed Emperor from their late 1800s.

As such, whatever name is chosen, this will be a paper ship, unless a European or US hand-me-down (like most of their foreign-purchased ships) becomes the template.

A 4-turret Yukon and perhaps rename it Mantiqueira, ( or Pedra da Mina? ) among the largest mountains in the Andes?

 

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1 hour ago, LemonyFreshAnarchy said:

......

A 4-turret Yukon and perhaps rename it Mantiqueira, ( or Pedra da Mina? ) among the largest mountains in the Andes?

 

Despite any impressions of majesty that such mountains fill some of us with,  I can't recall: has ANY nation ever named a warship after a mountain?

Though your logic is sound, boss man, I seriously doubt the kiddos and history buffs are concerned with a geography lesson in a history-on-a-whim arcade shooter.

Points for trying, though: as I said, there is something majestic about the largest mountains you've seen in a lifetime. And a warship sticking out above an ocean in those early 20th century days of naval warfare certainly carried a majestic aura about them, and absolutely would be more sensibly-named after a mountain than a body of water...

And truth be told, a warship named Kilimanjaro or Rainier or Everest does sound appealing. But most people wouldn't even know where these mountains even are, IF they knew they were even mountains at all.

Mantiqueira does kind of sound regal or majestic, though, so points on that suggestion.

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On 1/31/2022 at 6:15 PM, Captain_Benevolent_Fair said:

Brazil would only name a ship "Atlântico" 104 years later, in 2018,

The fact that the name has no long and rich history behind it is probably one of the reasons they DID choose it. Imagine if they'd picked a name with strong historical significance for Brazilians and the ship turned out to suck. What then?

Using a name of one of the ships that was built in steel and actually served the Brazilian navy in that era would also be a mistake, as it would take up that name.

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they could have simply asked, since it's not their native culture. get recommendations from those who live there.

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Hello everyone,

We've read though good feedback for Brazilian battleship names for the Atlántico, and discussed some of them internally.

We decided to keep the Atlántico name primarily because it's a more eclectic and modern choice for the broader audience who will be interacting with the ship and the Dockyard. Even though the name did not feature in the historical period we usually reference in the game, it is an homage to the modern Brazilian Navy. At the same time, while a lot of interesting suggestions were floated in the community, many of them have issues of their own and there is no clear consensus on what alternative name would be best.

However, we are happy to keep some of those suggestions and the research attached to them for the future, when we inevitably release new Pan-American ship content, as some suggestions apply across ship classes. At that time we'll also consider involving the LATAM community more closely, for example by allowing public voting if there are multiple shortlisted choices and circumstances allow for it.

For our Brazilians (a translation if you want it):

Spoiler

Nós lemos os comentários e vimos bons feedbacks sobre nomes de navios brasileiros para o Atlántico, e discutimos alguns deles internamente. 

Decidimos manter o nome Atlántico principalmente porque é uma escolha mais eclética e moderna para o público mais amplo que estará interagindo com o navio e o estaleiro. Embora o nome não tenha sido utilizado no período histórico que normalmente referimos no jogo, ele é uma homenagem à Marinha brasileira moderna. Ao mesmo tempo, embora muitas sugestões interessantes tenham sido apresentadas na comunidade, muitas delas têm seus próprios problemas e não há um consenso claro sobre qual nome alternativo seria melhor.

No entanto, iremos manter algumas dessas sugestões e pesquisas apresentadas sobre elas para o futuro, quando inevitavelmente liberaremos novos conteúdos de navios Pan-Americanos, já que algumas sugestões se aplicam a todas as classes de navios. Nessa ocasião, também consideraremos envolver mais de perto a comunidade, por exemplo, criar uma votação pública se houver múltiplas escolhas se circunstâncias permitirem.

Please feel free to continue providing feedback about Pan-American ships in this topic.

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6 hours ago, Aimee02 said:

Despite any impressions of majesty that such mountains fill some of us with,  I can't recall: has ANY nation ever named a warship after a mountain?

The Imperial Japanese Navy named their battlecruisers and heavy cruisers after mountains. Akagi, having started her life as a battlecruiser, was likewise named after Mt. Akagi.

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