Would you recommend Marceau for Co-op?

[Caryelah]

Hi.

I have Pommern and Napoli as high tier coal ships. I'm currently saving for high tier coal ships. I have seen a lot of Marceau in Co-op and looks pretty effective. I don't like playing DDs but should i consider getting it? I'm waiting for new coal ship by the way.

 

Thanks.

 

 

[Yamashiro42]

12 minutes ago, Caryelah said:

Hi.

I have Pommern and Napoli as high tier coal ships. I'm currently saving for high tier coal ships. I have seen a lot of Marceau in Co-op and looks pretty effective. I don't like playing DDs but should i consider getting it? I'm waiting for new coal ship by the way.

 

Thanks.

 

 

The torpedo reload on Marceau is quite long, coop game can be sometimes over before they even get loaded. And if they do you will probably use them only once (but that is enough to sink 2 bots if you go between them).

For the dakka dakka fun while dodging the bot fire (bots focus mostly DDs) you may enjoy Marceau.

[Wolfswetpaws]

3 hours ago, Caryelah said:

Hi.

I have Pommern and Napoli as high tier coal ships. I'm currently saving for high tier coal ships. I have seen a lot of Marceau in Co-op and looks pretty effective. I don't like playing DDs but should i consider getting it? I'm waiting for new coal ship by the way.

 

Thanks.

Congratulations on your Pommern and Napoli.  :-)

The Marceau is a DD that is popular.  It also, from what I've read on its' wiki-page, a variation of a Destroyer that offers something different for DD players who are tired of the usual Destroyer play-styles.
https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Marceau

By luck of the draw, the Neustrashimy arrived in my Port, via a container.  Shes' a versatile DD with competitive detection values, decent torpedoes and a Repair Party.
Compared with the Marceau, the Neustrashimy offers a more "traditional torpedo-'bote" play-style.

Since you've mentioned that you "don't like playing DD's", I suggest getting a ship that you know you will enjoy playing, or that you continue to save-up your coal, or that you consider getting a Commander, instead.

If, in the future, you develop a taste for playing DD's, then you'll be exploring the tech-tree ships and getting a feel for what features of a DD are compatible with your preferences.
(A great place to try the tech-tree ships is the Public Test Server, on weekends.)
After gaining valuable knowledge & experience, you'll be in a better position to decide for yourself which DD's are worth your hard-earned coal.

Currently the Marceau is a "niche market" Destroyer.  

Ultimately, it's your coal, and your decision.  :-)

[Pirate_Named_Sue]

Enthusiastically yes. 
 

with current bots not aiming for crap, Marc is one of the funner DDs out. Dakka dakka torp. If you are a 100% co-op main forget about conceal and just gooooooo. When the bots learn out to shoot again, Marc will be a bit more difficult as you don’t have smoke to hide in. For now though …. 

[PrairiePlayer]

I have found that the Friesland and the Groningen clone are very effective in co-op matches for both damage done and earning base XP.  Being T-9 ships, they also get the credit earnings boost.  

[HamptonRoads]

26 minutes ago, Pirate_Named_Sue said:

Enthusiastically yes. 
 

with current bots not aiming for crap, Marc is one of the funner DDs out. Dakka dakka torp. If you are a 100% co-op main forget about conceal and just gooooooo. When the bots learn out to shoot again, Marc will be a bit more difficult as you don’t have smoke to hide in. For now though …. 

^^This.  Until the AI is fixed, Marceau will be an OP beast in co-op.  You get 4 torp racks that absolutely wreak havoc.  Once it is fixed, Marceau will be mediocre-to-good.

[AdmiralThunder]

5 hours ago, Caryelah said:

Hi.

I have Pommern and Napoli as high tier coal ships. I'm currently saving for high tier coal ships. I have seen a lot of Marceau in Co-op and looks pretty effective. I don't like playing DDs but should i consider getting it? I'm waiting for new coal ship by the way.

 

Thanks.

 

 

Marceau is decent, at least since 0.10.6 when the bots lost their ability to hit stuff when shooting, but Kleber is better and that is a free ship (tech tree). Torps rule Co-op and Kleber's torps hit much harder and reload in like 1/2 the time vs Marceau. If you have the coal to spare sure get it otherwise save it for something else. JMHO.

[Asym_KS]

6 hours ago, Caryelah said:

Hi.   I have Pommern and Napoli as high tier coal ships. I'm currently saving for high tier coal ships. I have seen a lot of Marceau in Co-op and looks pretty effective. I don't like playing DDs but should i consider getting it? I'm waiting for new coal ship by the way.    Thanks.

I play Marceau everyday with a 21 Point CPT and to answer your question:  get her.   The Marceau is a very good ship in COOP and not grinding a TT ship is worth buying her.  TT ships maybe "free" but, to what end:.........unless, you are a whale and collecting fits your needs.   Otherwise, a good practice, as I see it, is to collect Premium ships only;.........and, have one 21 pointer to rule them all.    Why waste time if you don't have too....!  A lot of players I know are selling most of their TT ships and only keeping their Premiums (except tier 10's for Snowflakes...)

It's a strategic choice as far as gameplay......  Premiums versus Tech Tree.   If I had to do this all over again, I'd stick to One Nation (as I have with the IJN) and only seek the ships that fit Ops or PVP modes that are OP or the current meta....  Why have the rest if all they do is sit in port till snowflakes???  

[HazeGrayUnderway]

The overwhelming vast majority of Destroyers in Co-Op are played for speed + torpedoes.  Dakka Guns don't get you far.  They're useful in certain times like killing the bot DD, but the real meat in your DD games are via torpedoes.

Gun down the bot DD.

Try to find an opening to charge in for torpedo attacks.

 

When you watch DD players dominate a Co-Op game, it's not about their guns, but driving the ship in at the right opportunity for Big Damage and Kills.

DDs:  "The shell is madness, the torpedo is where it's at."

 

That said, Marceau when played properly leaves nothing behind for the guys behind it.  But Kleber is better with her torpedo armament.  The only advantage Marceau has in the reality of Co-Op over Kleber is better concealment.  If the Marceau player keeps in Stealth for a YOLO Torpedo Run, the bots won't see her until 6.9km.  Kleber in an identical Stealth Build has horrid concealment at 7.7km.  That's where Marceau's advantage ends.  Marceau's guns reload more quickly than Kleber's but Kleber has MBRB access while Marceau has stupid Defensive Fire.  But FRDDs do not dominate by guns in Co-Op, it is by their torpedoes.

Marceau with a Torpedo + Stealth Build.

9km torpedoes 4x3

14.8k dmg per torpedo

66kts

108 seconds reload

Kleber with an identical build.

8km torpedoes 4x3

18.4k dmg per torpedo

83kts

58.9 seconds reload

 

When you see Marceau players do good in Co-Op, it's not because of their guns.  It's because of good torpedo runs.  Kleber does it better.  Marceau however is a Premium Ship, and is cheaper to run.

 

The heart of the matter in difference between Kleber and Marceau is Marceau is the more rounded boat with better stealth, better guns, better torpedo range but worse torpedoes than Kleber.  Kleber has terrible concealment, slower gun reload, 1km less torpedo range, but far faster, harder hitting torpedoes that reload in less than 1 minute if you spec for torpedoes.  Marceau can and will do well when played right, but Kleber will do better in the same style of play.

[Swervenkill]

Doesn't look like anyone's mentioned yet, Marceau has 44 knot speed. If you add:

Speed boost: 8.8 knots for 3 minutes

Speed flag: 2.2 knots

Swift in silence: 3.5 knots

So if you charge the cap you can get up to 58 knots.  Propulsion mod 1 doubles your acceleration, Engine boost mod adds 54 seconds to speed boost.

This ship can be a speed demon.

[HazeGrayUnderway]

4 minutes ago, Swervenkill said:

Doesn't look like anyone's mentioned yet, Marceau has 44 knot speed. If you add:

Speed boost: 8.8 knots for 3 minutes

Speed flag: 2.2 knots

Swift in silence: 3.5 knots

So if you charge the cap you can get up to 58 knots.  Propulsion mod 1 doubles your acceleration, Engine boost mod adds 54 seconds to speed boost.

This ship can be a speed demon.

Kleber can do the same thing.  Both ships have the same 44kt base speed and have the same Engine Boost.

 

Not only can Kleber can keep up with similar builds, but Kleber has far superior torpedoes that reload in 58.9 seconds in a torpedo focused build.  Marceau's weaker, slower torpedoes require 108 seconds even with a torpedo focused build.

[Stephen_Maturin2022]

I don't have Marceau, but I recommend Salem if you like cruisers. She's tremendous fun in Coop. The DPM on both shell types is insane, and the zombie heal helps with brawling.

[Ensign_Cthulhu]

21 hours ago, AdmiralThunder said:

but Kleber is better and that is a free ship (tech tree).

I think there's room for debate. For example, Kleber's reload booster is great, but Marceau has all her DPM all the time. 

One thing is for sure, though; I would work up that line to at least Le Fantasque (or play lots of it on the Public Test Server) and get a feel for what French DD in co-op is like before I got Marceau. By the time I got around to it, I was sorry I hadn't done so earlier... but maybe that just meant I was finally, fully ready for her. 

For me, Marceau removes the need to grind to Kleber in any great hurry. I'll get there eventually (currently at Mogador). The other important thing about Marceau over Kleber, though, is how AFFORDABLE she is to run in co-op, especially if doubloons for a permacamo or premium time would stretch the budget.

[Ensign_Cthulhu]

15 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Not only can Kleber can keep up with similar builds, but Kleber has far superior torpedoes that reload in 58.9 seconds in a torpedo focused build. 

That quick?

I'm going to have to look into that down the road. *Makes note to examine Mogador commander this evening.*

[AdmiralThunder]

55 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

I think there's room for debate. For example, Kleber's reload booster is great, but Marceau has all her DPM all the time. 

One thing is for sure, though; I would work up that line to at least Le Fantasque (or play lots of it on the Public Test Server) and get a feel for what French DD in co-op is like before I got Marceau. By the time I got around to it, I was sorry I hadn't done so earlier... but maybe that just meant I was finally, fully ready for her. 

For me, Marceau removes the need to grind to Kleber in any great hurry. I'll get there eventually (currently at Mogador). The other important thing about Marceau over Kleber, though, is how AFFORDABLE she is to run in co-op, especially if doubloons for a permacamo or premium time would stretch the budget.

For Co-op which this thread is about there is no debate. Kleber is a better DD than Marceau for the reasons I outlined.

[PapaOoooPowPow]

On 1/31/2022 at 7:12 AM, AdmiralThunder said:

Marceau is decent, at least since 0.10.6 when the bots lost their ability to hit stuff when shooting, but Kleber is better and that is a free ship (tech tree). Torps rule Co-op and Kleber's torps hit much harder and reload in like 1/2 the time vs Marceau. If you have the coal to spare sure get it otherwise save it for something else. JMHO.

Agreed [WPORT]Wolfswetpaws, [PVE]AdmiralThunder and [ARGSY]Ensign_Cthulhu, I run the Marceau in Torp-Op for the DD-Missions cuz I don't have a KLEBER yet and it's fun and cheap-to-run, but the KLEBER is just better if you have it. Waiting at the beginning of a match for one's torps to load is a pain in the Marceau and many opportunities are missed as the game has become more of a race then ever.

[Swervenkill]

I always try to take out the enemy DD by gunfire, because no destroyer has enough time to reload torps before the red cruiser gets there. There have been a couple times I wished Marceau torps loaded faster. I have Kleber too and both are fun ships. If you choose either I suggest trying the speed build just for the fun of it, the speed boost is unique to French destroyers. (20% for 180 seconds)

[Sabot_100]

22 hours ago, Swervenkill said:

Doesn't look like anyone's mentioned yet, Marceau has 44 knot speed. If you add:

Speed boost: 8.8 knots for 3 minutes

Speed flag: 2.2 knots

Swift in silence: 3.5 knots

So if you charge the cap you can get up to 58 knots.  Propulsion mod 1 doubles your acceleration, Engine boost mod adds 54 seconds to speed boost.

This ship can be a speed demon.

But that Swift in Silence then vanishes for the rest of the match as soon as you get spotted and likely remain spotted for the rest of the match. You'll get spotted a bit later than Kleber but Marceau does not have good stealth either. Other than memes, is it worth the 4 pts?

[ZARDOZ_II]

It's fun in PvE. I don't have the Kleber so can't make a direct comparison. Only as far as La Fant right now. But it's fun for the dakka. I like the high RoF. But the MBRB is my least favorite gimmick in game. Though now it's a close call with the Dutch air strike gimmick. But IMO MBRB is far too situational. 

[HazeGrayUnderway]

12 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

That quick?

I'm going to have to look into that down the road. *Makes note to examine Mogador commander this evening.*

Premium VIII Le Terrible, IX Mogador, X Kleber have very fast reloads if you spec for torpedoes.

58.9 seconds for Kleber and Mogador.

69.3 seconds for Le Terrible.

Her sister Le Fantasque in the Tech Tree doesn't reload quite as fast, it's more normal at 81 seconds.

 

Mogador with an identical build, using the same captain as from Kleber.

Marceau is fine, she'll more than get the job done well, but her torpedoes aren't as good because WG intended her to be a more rounded DD:  Better concealment, faster reloading guns, which has more ramifications for PVP than it does for PVE.

 

My 18pt Auboyneau captain:

 

[iDuckman]

Heck, anything faster than a dirt clod works in Co-op.  And some of them do too. 

Think **> "Salem" <**.