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Ensign_Cthulhu

CV new cost system data from Public Test

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So... from now on we're going to be billed for the ordnance we drop, not the planes we lose, and people were wondering what this would mean for the costs associated with pre-dropping (i.e. wasted ordnance).

This is a worst-case game - co-op usually treats high tier CV horribly - but it became an odd best case as I was the only human. So I was able to make bank from multiple kills (which are now going to be more heavily weighted for high-tier CV) and lots of damage. 

ANYWAY... here it is, all laid out - what the costs were, how many torps, bombs and rockets I dropped. Make of it what you will, but I think this is going to end up costing CV players a fair bit less than before.

 

shot-22.01.30_21.15.35-0067.jpg

shot-22.01.30_21.15.41-0637.jpg

shot-22.01.30_21.15.46-0089.jpg

shot-22.01.30_21.15.56-0419.jpg

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9 minutes ago, Superczar said:

And if I see correctly that is without her premium camo right?

That is correct. I don't have one for the Hak yet. You would have seen it in "modifiers" for the costs.

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57 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

So... from now on we're going to be billed for the ordnance we drop, not the planes we lose, and people were wondering what this would mean for the costs associated with pre-dropping (i.e. wasted ordnance).

This is a worst-case game - co-op usually treats high tier CV horribly - but it became an odd best case as I was the only human. So I was able to make bank from multiple kills (which are now going to be more heavily weighted for high-tier CV) and lots of damage. 

ANYWAY... here it is, all laid out - what the costs were, how many torps, bombs and rockets I dropped. Make of it what you will, but I think this is going to end up costing CV players a fair bit less than before.

 

shot-22.01.30_21.15.35-0067.jpg

shot-22.01.30_21.15.41-0637.jpg

shot-22.01.30_21.15.46-0089.jpg

shot-22.01.30_21.15.56-0419.jpg

 

So will this be cheaper or more expensive :fish_book: 

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1 minute ago, Superczar said:

Given the ordnance used up, it doesn't appear to be much cheaper if at all...

You should see how expensive it gets when you lose a lot of planes.

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3 minutes ago, Superczar said:

Given the ordnance used up, it doesn't appear to be much cheaper if at all...

 

Know wargaming they probably made it more expensive :Smile_hiding:

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Well, maybe it'll reduce the number of CV's... and probably players too.  The in-game economy isn't very encouraging of actual game play for tech tree ships at higher levels in any class, but I've never seen a service bill that high.

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Punishingly high service costs have always been a stealth way of controlling the high tier CV population.  While I think keeping the CV population low is probably better for the overall game health; punish CV players to do so was never "fair".  We'll see if this ends up being cheaper or not.

As for the new xp earnings for kills.  I don't like it.  It incentivizes kill stealing, which will annoy the other player even more.  Plus, this change also incentivizes targeting low health ships.  This is something that is already a sore point for surface ship players, and now it will only be worse.   

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Hmm just played a quick Hak Coop game on the live server without the perma camo, my Service cost was 121,500 credits (with a 10% reduction, so basically my service cost was almost identical to Ensign's. But my "Ammunition resupply" cost was significantly higher even though I only lost 48 planes to his 76, but my cost was 49,200 credits to his ~5,500-ish. So perhaps it will be cheaper to operate CVs it seems...

Edited by Superczar

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We CV lovers are used to Wargaming bending us over the nearest table whenever it strikes their fancy.

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Am I missing something?

 

All I see is 5k ammunition resupply cost which by the way is really low since it seems it no longer counts plane losses as a part of the cost despite losing like almost 70 attack planes.

 

Not sure why everyone else seems to think this makes CV more expensive overall

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@Ensign_Cthulhu, how much of your 61k damage for the kill on the Hak came from the ram? That amount of damage would have been obtained “for free” (no ordnance cost in getting that portion of the damage/kill), rendering this result somewhat non-representative of the costs for a normal 150k damage, 4-kill game.

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dont forget though hak in heavy AA games you will have to predrop planes so we dont know how much the cost will be.We will see in live.

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Given that right now plane losses can easily cost you upwards of 60k or more in high intensity matches, that is hilariously cheap in comparison.

Edited by El2aZeR
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10 hours ago, Superczar said:

Hmm just played a quick Hak Coop game on the live server without the perma camo, my Service cost was 121,500 credits (with a 10% reduction, so basically my service cost was almost identical to Ensign's. But my "Ammunition resupply" cost was significantly higher even though I only lost 48 planes to his 76, but my cost was 49,200 credits to his ~5,500-ish. So perhaps it will be cheaper to operate CVs it seems...

Thanks for the cross-check. 

2 hours ago, MannyD_of_The_Sea said:

how much of your 61k damage for the kill on the Hak came from the ram?

Not sure. Maybe 3/4? 

2 hours ago, MannyD_of_The_Sea said:

That amount of damage would have been obtained “for free”

It would, but I think it's irrelevant. The important part of this is not the overall take-home pay; it's the exact figure for the ammunition costs - and I posted the result screen (3rd pic), which gives an explicit record of how much of each ordnance I fired.

What would be useful to know, and which I might go into on the PTS next weekend, is what the differential per-bomb, per-rocket etc. costs are. That will let us know how much a pre-drop will cost. To do that, I'll need to play a series of battles using only one ordnance. Assistance from others in this regard would be appreciated.

1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

Given that right now plane losses can easily cost you upwards of 60k or more in high intensity matches, that is hilariously cheap in comparison.

Oh dear Christ, we finally agree on something. It's the end times! 

3 hours ago, Vader_Sama said:

Not sure why everyone else seems to think this makes CV more expensive overall

Because they're addicted to the meme that WG will only ever screw us over with anything they do.

3 hours ago, Vader_Sama said:

despite losing like almost 70 attack planes.

Yeah, I was deliberately reckless with the planes to prove the point. No pre-dropping at all; I wanted all the ordnance spent to be on the attack runs.

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10 hours ago, Superczar said:

with a 10% reduction, so basically my service cost was almost identical to Ensign's.

Yeah, I don't belong to a clan on the PTS and that would have brought it down to what you got.

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40 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Yeah, I don't belong to a clan on the PTS and that would have brought it down to what you got.

Thanks for sharing the results of your experiment, @Ensign_Cthulhu.
I agree that it would be nice to get information on the price of each ordnance.

I created my own Clan on the PTS Server, too.  Mostly on a whim and so that noone else could copy my Clan name, there.  But, in theory and *eventually* one could earn enough oil to improve one's base structures?  :cap_hmm:
Of course, we might die of old age, first.  :Smile_veryhappy:

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58 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

But, in theory and *eventually* one could earn enough oil to improve one's base structures?  

IIRC the progress reset means that any clan you form is eliminated. I tried it.

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Just now, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

IIRC the progress reset means that any clan you form is eliminated. I tried it.

Dang.

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Seems really cheap to me.

shot-22_01.31_14_06.50-0157.thumb.jpg.8bcf48a905b0aafdc4c49f926b49e196.jpgshot-22_01.31_14_06.57-0357.thumb.jpg.59f4d0deb15d4cdb94af311e142812d1.jpgshot-22_01.31_14_06.42-0175.thumb.jpg.d351e438defd39460b4323e4b9390f55.jpg

 

I lost 28 non controllable aircraft for 45k resupply AND a higher service cost.  wth Dutch cruiser line economy busted. Does this CV cost change effect Airstrike costs?

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2 minutes ago, Amfree said:

Does this CV cost change effect Airstrike costs?

It probably does, but it bears checking out. If you have access to the public test server, it's not hard to grab a Leeuw and give it a shot. Remind me when Friday rolls around.

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I'm very appreciative of your work Ensign_Cthulhu!  Helps a lot for us newer players as we try to navigate the oddness of this economy design.

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6 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

What would be useful to know, and which I might go into on the PTS next weekend, is what the differential per-bomb, per-rocket etc. costs are. That will let us know how much a pre-drop will cost. To do that, I'll need to play a series of battles using only one ordnance.

What size of series and help do you think is necessary? Should not three battles with three ordnance suffice, or two, for those CVs that have only two attack aircraft types?

Use your P key to keep secondaries/AA from firing, in case they incur non-itemized costs, and you should be good.

I wouldn’t even think that you have to limit yourself to one type of ordnance per battle, since your results show the count of each type of bomb dropped. High school algebra - three equations & three unknowns, and all that.

There would be a question about planes that get downed without dropping their payloads. Do bombs not “dropped”, but instead go into the drink with the plane, do they incur cost as well? Are they enumerated in the “bombs dropped” count?

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1 hour ago, MannyD_of_The_Sea said:

Should not three battles with three ordnance suffice, or two, for those CVs that have only two attack aircraft types?

Correct. For completion, we should compare costs at Tiers 8 and 10 at least (possibly 6 as well though that doesn't seem as much of a problem), for at least two nations, and for all types within a nation (e.g. Richthofen has dive bombers but Immelmann has skippers). @iDuckman can probably advise on a complete test program, given that he's a wiki editor.

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