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CrusaderOfRighteousness

Can't Cruiser to Save My Life

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I've played over 1000 cruiser battles in Random...and lost the majority.  I cannot figure out this class for the life of me.

Angling?  No problem!  You get armor overmatch deleted by a BB regardless.  Off by yourself trying to hide behind an island to set up a crossfire?  No problem!  You get FF'd and deleted the second you stick your nose out regardless.  Hanging with several other ships in a flotilla to play supporting fire and AA?  No problem!  You will be singled out from the crowd and deleted regardless.  Do you hang at the start of a match and wait till the 15:00 mark to do anything?  No problem!  You are too late to affect the match in an impactful way and still get deleted the second a BB takes notice of your existence regardless.

These ships are so fragile, but their abyssmal range compared to BB main batteries means that you must take considerable risk to lend your firepower at all.  Cruiser torps are also a novelty you will probably never get close enough to use.  I really WANT to like them, as I enjoy ships with fast fire rates, but I cannot get past my frustration with their unforgiving fragility.  I believe these are some very real reasons why Cruisers are the second lowest rolled ship class of the game, with only CVs being less popular.  They are really only fun when you are YOLO charging against bots in Coop.  Cruisers would be a LOT more balanced if they had their citadels removed entirely and only took penetration damage like DDs.

I know there are good cruiser players out there, but they represent the elite of the elite of the playerbase, with the fastest of wits and reflexes.  If anything, cruisers are a mentally handicapped class, and those players who do well with them do so IN SPITE of their great inherent flaws, as those same players do extremely well in other classes also.

On a side note, the only cruiser line I have thoroughly enjoyed (even in Random battles) is British Lights.  I love the high fire rates of improved angle AP ammo while hiding in smoke for 60 - 90 seconds!  Also, the heals are REALLY nice, and the Hydro lets me know when I need to get the hell out of my smoke.

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3 minutes ago, CrusaderOfRighteousness said:

I've played over 1000 cruiser battles in Random...and lost the majority.  I cannot figure out this class for the life of me.

Angling?  No problem!  You get armor overmatch deleted by a BB regardless.  Off by yourself trying to hide behind an island to set up a crossfire?  No problem!  You get FF'd and deleted the second you stick your nose out regardless.  Hanging with several other ships in a flotilla to play supporting fire and AA?  No problem!  You will be singled out from the crowd and deleted regardless.  Do you hang at the start of a match and wait till the 15:00 mark to do anything?  No problem!  You are too late to affect the match in an impactful way and still get deleted the second a BB takes notice of your existence regardless.

These ships are so fragile, but their abyssmal range compared to BB main batteries means that you must take considerable risk to lend your firepower at all.  Cruiser torps are also a novelty you will probably never get close enough to use.  I really WANT to like them, as I enjoy ships with fast fire rates, but I cannot get past my frustration with their unforgiving fragility.  I believe these are some very real reasons why Cruisers are the second lowest rolled ship class of the game, with only CVs being less popular.  They are really only fun when you are YOLO charging against bots in Coop.  Cruisers would be a LOT more balanced if they had their citadels removed entirely and only took penetration damage like DDs.

I know there are good cruiser players out there, but they represent the elite of the elite of the playerbase, with the fastest of wits and reflexes.  If anything, cruisers are a mentally handicapped class, and those players who do well with them do so IN SPITE of their great inherent flaws, as those same players do extremely well in other classes also.

On a side note, the only cruiser line I have thoroughly enjoyed (even in Random battles) is British Lights.  I love the high fire rates of improved angle AP ammo while hiding in smoke for 60 - 90 seconds!  Also, the heals are REALLY nice, and the Hydro lets me know when I need to get the hell out of my smoke.

Instead of using your narrative... Why not entertain the "John Maddens" of the forum with a replay of your cruiser play ?

Trust me, they will be happy to point out (in their opinions and each one will be different) where you can improve or where you messed up..

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Sounds like you found a cruiser line that works for you, you don't have to play them all. 

spud

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laughs in St. Louis.

unknown.png If you are having such a hard time with cruisers, maybe it's time for you to stop. I'm a CV main with 16 cruisers. Over 161 times of playing them in Randoms I have a 49% winrate. I don't consider myself to be good at cruiser play. Cruisers aren't exactly easy, but at the same time I see nothing unbalanced. What is your goal on continuing to play them, anyways?

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22 minutes ago, black_hull4 said:

laughs in St. Louis.

unknown.png If you are having such a hard time with cruisers, maybe it's time for you to stop. I'm a CV main with 16 cruisers. Over 161 times of playing them in Randoms I have a 49% winrate. I don't consider myself to be good at cruiser play. Cruisers aren't exactly easy, but at the same time I see nothing unbalanced. What is your goal on continuing to play them, anyways?

I'd like to think I could git guud with everything if I tried hard enough.  I'll watch more iChase videos...I swear, that guy makes everything look easy...

Edited by CrusaderOfRighteousness

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7 minutes ago, CrusaderOfRighteousness said:

  I'll watch more iChase videos

Ichase only posts his very best games... He is mainly known for his CV play...

May I suggest someone else to guide you...

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8 minutes ago, CrusaderOfRighteousness said:

I'd like to think I could git guud with everything if I tried hard enough.

Most of the good Youtubers do favor a certain type. We only recently had hybrids added. I don't honestly think this game will be enjoyable if you try to do everything.

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1 hour ago, CrusaderOfRighteousness said:

I'd like to think I could git guud with everything if I tried hard enough.  I'll watch more iChase videos...I swear, that guy makes everything look easy...

carbine carlito has some great vids in just about anything, also meta_man2002  

i'm a little biased, as i belong to meta's clan, his videos on french cruisers and the atago changed my playstyle.

spud

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1 hour ago, CrusaderOfRighteousness said:

I'll watch more iChase videos

 

1 hour ago, Navalpride33 said:

Ichase only posts his very best games.

Unfortunately that is everybody...

Never see any videos from anybody titled:

"Watch this epic fail while I explain how I went wrong"...

(Think the closest you will get is @Lord_Zath going over other players fails & explaining how they went wrong).

1 hour ago, Navalpride33 said:

May I suggest someone else to guide you...

I'm sure he wouldn't mind if you did...

Who you got in mind?

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2 hours ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

 

Unfortunately that is everybody...

Never see any videos from anybody titled:

"Watch this epic fail while I explain how I went wrong"...

(Think the closest you will get is @Lord_Zath going over other players fails & explaining how they went wrong).

I'm sure he wouldn't mind if you did...

Who you got in mind?

I saw one posted by Zoup once. He was responding to someone who said he only posted his good games so he posted one where he was terrible and gave us a play by play of everything he did wrong.

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23 hours ago, CrusaderOfRighteousness said:

I've played over 1000 cruiser battles in Random...and lost the majority.  I cannot figure out this class for the life of me.

Angling?  No problem!  You get armor overmatch deleted by a BB regardless.  Off by yourself trying to hide behind an island to set up a crossfire?  No problem!  You get FF'd and deleted the second you stick your nose out regardless.  Hanging with several other ships in a flotilla to play supporting fire and AA?  No problem!  You will be singled out from the crowd and deleted regardless.  Do you hang at the start of a match and wait till the 15:00 mark to do anything?  No problem!  You are too late to affect the match in an impactful way and still get deleted the second a BB takes notice of your existence regardless.

These ships are so fragile, but their abyssmal range compared to BB main batteries means that you must take considerable risk to lend your firepower at all.  Cruiser torps are also a novelty you will probably never get close enough to use.  I really WANT to like them, as I enjoy ships with fast fire rates, but I cannot get past my frustration with their unforgiving fragility.  I believe these are some very real reasons why Cruisers are the second lowest rolled ship class of the game, with only CVs being less popular.  They are really only fun when you are YOLO charging against bots in Coop.  Cruisers would be a LOT more balanced if they had their citadels removed entirely and only took penetration damage like DDs.

I know there are good cruiser players out there, but they represent the elite of the elite of the playerbase, with the fastest of wits and reflexes.  If anything, cruisers are a mentally handicapped class, and those players who do well with them do so IN SPITE of their great inherent flaws, as those same players do extremely well in other classes also.

On a side note, the only cruiser line I have thoroughly enjoyed (even in Random battles) is British Lights.  I love the high fire rates of improved angle AP ammo while hiding in smoke for 60 - 90 seconds!  Also, the heals are REALLY nice, and the Hydro lets me know when I need to get the hell out of my smoke.

So, I love playing cruisers, but I am definitely not part of the elite of the elite of the playerbase.  I have a 51% winrate, so I'm better than average, but I can definitely learn a thing or two.  I'm also not particularly good in BBs.

One thing you didn't mention about how you play cruisers is WASD.  It sounds trite, but that's the biggest thing that has helped me improve my gameplay.  Many, many cruisers have a 15.8 km gun range, and that is perfectly suitable to dodging large portions of an incoming BBs salvo.  You can get overmatched on your bow and stern, but most cruisers have belts that even a Yamato cannot overmatch.  Maneuvering just a little can be the difference between eating multiple citadels, and only eating a couple of full pens.  It can be the difference between getting hit by 6 shells and getting hit by only 1.  Managing the damage you take will allow you to stick around for longer and give your DoT a chance to impact the match.

Another key to managing the damage you take is map awareness.  You need to develop a sense of who is going to shoot you, and who is going to shoot someone else.  If you're the closest ship to the Reds and you get spotted first, then you're probably going to attract all the fire.  Are you still driving toward the Reds when you get spotted?  They all know that you're either going to turn out or become an even more inviting target as you continue driving toward them, and so they're going to target you.  So learn to expect when you're going to get spotted and turn out before that point.  Use islands to limit how many people can shoot at you.  It's much easier to dodge fire from a single ship than from several.  This doesn't mean you need to make the island your waifu - that usually ends up with you unable to shoot over the same island, and it limits how much spotting you can do.

Go dark when you're taking too much fire.  Wait until the Reds start focusing on someone else, and then open up again.  Make them waste time training their guns back and forth. Use islands to break line of sight, and don't immediately start shooting the moment your target reappears.

Learn to play the "meta-game".  I had a game in Minsk the other day (It's a light cruiser in disguise) where I had half the enemy team chasing me and shooting at me.  I had gotten into their back field and started to threaten their CV, and all the Reds completely forgot about what they should have been trying to do (kill my teammates and cap) and tried to focus me down.  They really only needed to send 1 ship after me to force me to back off, but instead they all lemming'ed into the back of the map and let my team take all the caps.  Sometimes, as a cruiser, your job is just to interfere with the Red's plans.  Get them off their game.  Get them to make mistakes, and waste their time, and you can turn the situation to your advantage.

If you can do all these things, then you can be successful in cruisers (or any other class).

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On 1/29/2022 at 12:46 PM, CrusaderOfRighteousness said:

I've played over 1000 cruiser battles in Random...and lost the majority.  I cannot figure out this class for the life of me.

Angling?  No problem!  You get armor overmatch deleted by a BB regardless.  Off by yourself trying to hide behind an island to set up a crossfire?  No problem!  You get FF'd and deleted the second you stick your nose out regardless.  Hanging with several other ships in a flotilla to play supporting fire and AA?  No problem!  You will be singled out from the crowd and deleted regardless.  Do you hang at the start of a match and wait till the 15:00 mark to do anything?  No problem!  You are too late to affect the match in an impactful way and still get deleted the second a BB takes notice of your existence regardless.

These ships are so fragile, but their abyssmal range compared to BB main batteries means that you must take considerable risk to lend your firepower at all.  Cruiser torps are also a novelty you will probably never get close enough to use.  I really WANT to like them, as I enjoy ships with fast fire rates, but I cannot get past my frustration with their unforgiving fragility.  I believe these are some very real reasons why Cruisers are the second lowest rolled ship class of the game, with only CVs being less popular.  They are really only fun when you are YOLO charging against bots in Coop.  Cruisers would be a LOT more balanced if they had their citadels removed entirely and only took penetration damage like DDs.

I know there are good cruiser players out there, but they represent the elite of the elite of the playerbase, with the fastest of wits and reflexes.  If anything, cruisers are a mentally handicapped class, and those players who do well with them do so IN SPITE of their great inherent flaws, as those same players do extremely well in other classes also.

On a side note, the only cruiser line I have thoroughly enjoyed (even in Random battles) is British Lights.  I love the high fire rates of improved angle AP ammo while hiding in smoke for 60 - 90 seconds!  Also, the heals are REALLY nice, and the Hydro lets me know when I need to get the hell out of my smoke.

How to Cruiser basics

 

If your Cruiser has Battleship like Armor, like this one, you play like this

If you Cruiser has smoke, like this one, it's Easy Mode Cruiser

 

Remember, there is a rock, paper scissors philosophy in Wows:

Battleships > Cruisers > Destroyers > Carriers > Battleships

Of course, Minsk keeps breaking the balance between these classes, with each new "update", but it's how they make the rubles ... and remember, this game was made by Minsk for Minsk, there is no bias ...

 

Edited by BigJohnsonLogan

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On 1/29/2022 at 12:46 PM, CrusaderOfRighteousness said:

I know there are good cruiser players out there, but they represent the elite of the elite of the playerbase, with the fastest of wits and reflexes.  If anything, cruisers are a mentally handicapped class, and those players who do well with them do so IN SPITE of their great inherent flaws, as those same players do extremely well in other classes also.

There's a couple of questions based on your stats:

Do you set your mini map big enough and set it so it shows ships and last known position of ships?

Do you keep your eye on the mini map most of if not all of the time?

Are you the type that like to just focus on the targeting scope? Do you free look to see if the detected/targeted message is showing up.

 

The point is this: Situational Awareness. If you're saying that you get shot at the moment you poke your nose out, that means someone is nearby who can spot you. Are the dd's/planes lurking? Maybe backing out rather poking out might be the better solution. Are you using hydro to see if there's a ship on the other side of the island?

Are there ships that can shoot you broadside? If you get a targeted message, maybe it's a good time to beat feet on a line that minimizes your broadside.

You don't have to snuggled behind an island to stay concealed. You just have to be out of LOS while still be able to shoot. You can be a fair distance away from an island and still be concealed. The moment you're spotted and targeted is the time to relocate at that point.

 

 

 

 

 

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It’s good to learn what the overmatch thresholds are on battleship guns so you can play safer, though obviously that advice doesn’t work on every cruiser. Something like an Albemarle can be annoyingly tanky when the largest caliber being shot at it is 15”, or 16” if she is far away enough and against floaty shells.

 

Bailing and kiting from the situation to make it to late game is also beneficial to learn for basically everything, just because you can move forward doesn’t mean that you should.

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Highlight: How To Omaha - YouTube

Some people aren't exactly fans of his tone, but he does do some fairly good commentary on how to play, what to think. Playing cruiser, you need to stay alive -> to fire your guns. The DPM output is the main goal, if you're finding it a struggle to survive to output the DPM, you may want to take a look at your positioning more often. Fast wits and reflexes aren't actually key to cruiser play, it's knowing where to go and when to leave.

Staying safe isn't enough though, you need to make use of your damage output. If you're alive at the end of the match but haven't done any damage to help the team kill off other ships, you've also been pretty useless. Riding the line between keeping the guns hot and slinking off when you're being overrun is critical.

I tend to play too aggressive often and it's something I need to work on.

Edited by Qyygle
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On 1/30/2022 at 4:15 AM, black_hull4 said:

laughs in St. Louis.

unknown.png If you are having such a hard time with cruisers, maybe it's time for you to stop. I'm a CV main with 16 cruisers. Over 161 times of playing them in Randoms I have a 49% winrate. I don't consider myself to be good at cruiser play. Cruisers aren't exactly easy, but at the same time I see nothing unbalanced. What is your goal on continuing to play them, anyways?

Bro, never admit that you're a CV main. :O

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7 hours ago, SirFaffer said:

Bro, never admit that you're a CV main. :O

I just bought USS Saratoga. Try to stop me.

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I have 54.21% WR in cruisers over 2887 games. I mainly focus on AD juking, and only SSSSS to clutch brake very rarely (besides dodging torpedoes or when smoking up) as most cruiser accel/decel isn't that great and I learnt the WS part of WASD hacks long after I finished grinding the British CL line which ahs good accel/decel until Edinburgh.

I believe that the key to cruisers is AD juking at ranges between about 10km (12km if your ship is not particularly nimble) to your max range and being constantly angled so that you are either over-shouldering with all your turrets or similarly unshadowing your rear turrets depending on whether you are on closing or distancing.  When doing these maneuvers make sure you are engaging the enemy farthest out to the side (if they are all of similar distance away) so that your stern is pointed atmost of the enemies in your alley--it is obnoxiously hard to hit a juking stern without a LOT of experience and some good luck, assuming the target doesn't AD in a periodic/predictable way. Scatter in some randomness in your AD booty shaking.

Beware of cross-alley fire from supercruisers, battlecruisers and battleships and try not to expose side to them if possible.

Try to make your turn-ins (going from distancing to closing with the enemy) as close to your max range as possible from the foremost enemy to reduce the chances of being hit in the side. And try to steer for islands in such a way that they cover your turn-aways.

Mainline HE and only change to loading AP when you see a BB or cruiser give side--double-tap the ammo number JUST AFTER a salvo to avoid wasting DPS.

Last Stand, Priority Target (whatever it's called now), and Concealment Expert are mandatory skills.

Get IFHE if you have 26 to 31mm base HE penetration so that you can pierce 32mm plating with HE.

Next skills include Fire Chance, Superintendent if you have repair, and Adrenaline Rush.

Edited by Guardian54
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21 hours ago, black_hull4 said:

I just bought USS Saratoga. Try to stop me.

Thats the whole point, I can't... There is no counter to a CV unless he's an idiot or he's the last ship left.

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