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crazyrom

Shikishima vs. Satsuma - Shiki still worth it?

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So, I was considering buying Shiki, but Satsuma is coming. Research will be cheap, silver price will not, they say above 50 million, does not matter, that's cheaper than steel. So, what will be the point of paying 32k steel (24 with coupon) if we can get even better experience ( +2 guns, +33% guns) with extra accuracy gimmick, to play same TX randoms?

Is there any scenario when Shiki can be better?

Clan battles will probably not allow T11, so only Shiki can go, but in this case I will go with Ohio anyway, which I am already doing successfully today (damage Stalingrad for 48k by just IGNORING it - priceless)

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Shikishima has better secondaries and AA. Plus, the cost is the normal repair cost for Tier 10 where as Satsuma is going to be 1.5 to 2.5 times more. The tier 11 ships are meant to drain your account of credits.

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5 minutes ago, Skuggsja said:

The tier 11 ships are meant to drain your account of credits.

Until WG starts selling 10k Doubloon premium camo’s for them. 

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1 hour ago, crazyrom said:

So, I was considering buying Shiki, but Satsuma is coming. Research will be cheap, silver price will not, they say above 50 million, does not matter, that's cheaper than steel. So, what will be the point of paying 32k steel (24 with coupon) if we can get even better experience ( +2 guns, +33% guns) with extra accuracy gimmick, to play same TX randoms?

Is there any scenario when Shiki can be better?

Clan battles will probably not allow T11, so only Shiki can go, but in this case I will go with Ohio anyway, which I am already doing successfully today (damage Stalingrad for 48k by just IGNORING it - priceless)

I've played Satsuma. And if I wanted to play a super sized Yamato I would just play the Yamato. I've built my Shikishima around her secondaries. Yes she only has 6 guns but she has a 26 second reload to go with them and far more consistent accuracy with no need for gimmicks, plus she's smaller and won't be a gigantic "AIM YOUR GUNS AT ME" target for everyone and their mother to want to set on fire. Other problem with Satsuma is that she's also very fat, aircraft carriers gon' have a field day with her.

~HUnter

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1 hour ago, Skuggsja said:

Shikishima has better secondaries and AA. Plus, the cost is the normal repair cost for Tier 10 where as Satsuma is going to be 1.5 to 2.5 times more. The tier 11 ships are meant to drain your account of credits.

Well, my intention in such kind of ships is always snipe, so secondaries basically do not matter. If I want secondaries, I will take my Ohio (or GK or Prussen or Schliffen or whatever TX on that line is). 

AA - well, Idk. Since I am sniping from far away, I expect the CV not to come for me just because it's a very long way, there will always be my teammates on his way.

Repair - do not care, I expect to always play with prem and never be negative.

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7 minutes ago, crazyrom said:

Well, my intention in such kind of ships is always snipe, so secondaries basically do not matter. If I want secondaries, I will take my Ohio (or GK or Prussen or Schliffen or whatever TX on that line is). 

AA - well, Idk. Since I am sniping from far away, I expect the CV not to come for me just because it's a very long way, there will always be my teammates on his way.

Repair - do not care, I expect to always play with prem and never be negative.

Well it sounds like you've made up your mind then as those are the only differences I know of.

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I had alot of fun sinking Satumas in my Shiki during the 'Grand Battles'

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44 minutes ago, Battleship_Warspite said:

A lot of people I trust have told me that Shika has never been worth it.

Ironically she's actually better than Yamato due to the better secondaries and AA lol

~Hunter

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3 hours ago, Skuggsja said:

Well it sounds like you've made up your mind then as those are the only differences I know of.

I mean, in terms of long range sniping (20+km), Satsuma should be a clear winner, right? Or no?

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2 hours ago, Lord_Slayer said:

I had alot of fun sinking Satumas in my Shiki during the 'Grand Battles'

Right, but is it because Shiki is somehow better, or YOU are better player than those Satsuma players? And would not you be sinking even more if you were in a Satsuma?

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2 hours ago, Firewalk said:

Shiki will get to keep stomping tier VIIIs whereas Satsuma won't. 

fair point ;)

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2 minutes ago, crazyrom said:

Right, but is it because Shiki is somehow better, or YOU are better player than those Satsuma players? And would not you be sinking even more if you were in a Satsuma?

Shiki is essentially a bigger gunned Yamato with better secondaries. Those who have a Yamato know its strengths and weaknesses and could easily adapt to the Shiki.

Satsuma is different. Yes, the guns are the same, but the ship handles differently. Her secondaries, as has been said, do not match the Shiki's.

Yes, you can rack up alot of kills and damage in Satsuma, especially when it's 'special ability' is activated. But you are also going to be the focus of alot of attention that other ships, even Yamatos and Shikis, aren't going to receive.

 

I have no knowledge just how skilled those Satsuma players were. I will say alot of them fell quickly due to well placed cheek citadels that the Yamato is know for.

I can say I enjoyed being in the Shiki more then the Satsuma.

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This far I enjoy Shikishima more than Satsuma. But I have very few matches in Satsuma.

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42 minutes ago, fbrrhd said:

I dont think coupons are available for a steel ship?

They are, I've used a coupon for nearly all of my steel ships. 

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Tbh, the shiki isn't worth the steel cost in the first place. You're better off sticking with the tech-tree yammie. 

She has better AA and secondaries at the cost of less chance to hit with your main guns.....which coincidentally don't offer anything over the yammie guns except the chance to overmatch 35mm of deck armor....which I believe you only find on 1 or 2 tier 5 or 6 ships you'll never see.

For 30K steel? Nope.

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On 11/26/2021 at 11:56 AM, Hunter_Steel said:

Ironically she's actually better than Yamato due to the better secondaries and AA lol

~Hunter

I would have to agree here. The differences between their secondaries are penetration capability (Shiki CAN potentially penetrate 32mm, Yamato cannot), reload times (Shiki are like 2-3 times faster firing), and range (only slight difference on range though, 11.6km vs 11km).

I think if you build into her secondaries, AND can get them into action meaningfully, Shikishima is generally overall better. If not, then it's a complete tossup, I'd say. Either way, the Yamato-class DOES suffer from that vulnerable citadel, so you need to be careful, of course. But when you are, and if you can get within secondaries range continuously, MAGIC happens:

Shikishima242k.thumb.png.2e5d933b8f3fbcf69d73a9ebef79e11d.png

Shikishima242kDetails.thumb.png.46a25658318c05984aa06f8dac429c5d.png

(Granted, this was in the most recent Ranked battles (not Race or Sprint or anything though, just standard Ranked) and not Random Battles, but still. EXTREMELY happy with these results!)

Now as to whether Shikishima is worth your hard-earned steel....I leave that decision up to you! For me personally, 100% worth it, because I love the Yamato-class ships. I have to admit, I'm disappointed that Wargaming went the Hizen/Musashi route in regards to Satsuma's secondaries. Her secondary reload is just punitive at 7s base. And I'm not talking about her large 203mm ones, I'm talking about her 100mm mounts. You know, the ones Shiki has firing at like 3s?! Yeah, those. Hizen got a similar treatment, her 127mm mounts fire every 7.5s base....and same with Musashi's 127mm mounts, of course.

 

 

Edited by SaiIor_Moon

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On 11/26/2021 at 9:40 AM, crazyrom said:

So, I was considering buying Shiki, but Satsuma is coming. Research will be cheap, silver price will not, they say above 50 million, does not matter, that's cheaper than steel. So, what will be the point of paying 32k steel (24 with coupon) if we can get even better experience ( +2 guns, +33% guns) with extra accuracy gimmick, to play same TX randoms?

Is there any scenario when Shiki can be better?

Clan battles will probably not allow T11, so only Shiki can go, but in this case I will go with Ohio anyway, which I am already doing successfully today (damage Stalingrad for 48k by just IGNORING it - priceless)

There releasing t11?  When?

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1 hour ago, Tigermaus said:

Tbh, the shiki isn't worth the steel cost in the first place. You're better off sticking with the tech-tree yammie. 

She has better AA and secondaries at the cost of less chance to hit with your main guns.....which coincidentally don't offer anything over the yammie guns except the chance to overmatch 35mm of deck armor....which I believe you only find on 1 or 2 tier 5 or 6 ships you'll never see.

For 30K steel? Nope.

The guns do pen belt armor better at long range than Yamato guns do. I've had a few instances where I've gotten meaningful pens and citadels with Shikishima where Yamato shells would have shattered or merely been torp protection hits. These instances are very rare for me as I spend most of my time in co-op and such long range shots are very rare there. In randoms it's a little more relevant, but you are at the mercy of RNGeesus. I'd say it's not worth it to most people, but I specialize in brawling (thus why I prefer co-op) and Shikishima is an awesome brawler in experienced hands, so she's worth it to me.

Edit- After thinking a bit more, those kind of long range shots where Yamato shells won't pen are going to become more common when the super-BBs are fully released. I just remembered that Satsuma's main belt is thick enough to stop Yamato shells at much closer ranges than Yamato or Shikishima's belts will.

Edited by CaptHarlock_222
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1 hour ago, Tigermaus said:

Tbh, the shiki isn't worth the steel cost in the first place. You're better off sticking with the tech-tree yammie. 

She has better AA and secondaries at the cost of less chance to hit with your main guns.....which coincidentally don't offer anything over the yammie guns except the chance to overmatch 35mm of deck armor....which I believe you only find on 1 or 2 tier 5 or 6 ships you'll never see.

For 30K steel? Nope.

The citadel decks of Atago, Mogami and, IIRC, Ibuki are all 35mm, as well as the ice breaker of Dmitry Donskoi.  Myoko citadel deck as well, but that requires a fail div.

Edge cases, yes, Tier V ships you’ll never see, no.

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25 minutes ago, Helstrem said:

The citadel decks of Atago, Mogami and, IIRC, Ibuki are all 35mm, as well as the ice breaker of Dmitry Donskoi.  Myoko citadel deck as well, but that requires a fail div.

Edge cases, yes, Tier V ships you’ll never see, no.

Not worth 30K steel. The Shika also has fewer guns so any slight, and I mean slight, benefit of the guns is offset by a lower chance of a hit.

Shika has nice gun sounds...but that's not worth 30K steel either. Lol

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6 minutes ago, Tigermaus said:

Not worth 30K steel. The Shika also has fewer guns so any slight, and I mean slight, benefit of the guns is offset by a lower chance of a hit.

Shika has nice gun sounds...but that's not worth 30K steel either. Lol

Shikishima’s guns hit harder, fire faster and have better dispersion than even a legendary equipped Yamato.

My average damage in Shikishima is higher than in Yamato, but my win rate with Yamato is much higher than Shikishima.

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38 minutes ago, CaptHarlock_222 said:

The guns do pen belt armor better at long range than Yamato guns do. I've had a few instances where I've gotten meaningful pens and citadels with Shikishima where Yamato shells would have shattered or merely been torp protection hits. These instances are very rare for me as I spend most of my time in co-op and such long range shots are very rare there. In randoms it's a little more relevant, but you are at the mercy of RNGeesus. I'd say it's not worth it to most people, but I specialize in brawling (thus why I prefer co-op) and Shikishima is an awesome brawler in experienced hands, so she's worth it to me.

Edit- After thinking a bit more, those kind of long range shots where Yamato shells won't pen are going to become more common when the super-BBs are fully released. I just remembered that Satsuma's main belt is thick enough to stop Yamato shells at much closer ranges than Yamato or Shikishima's belts will.

 

That amount of steel is just not worth it for the benefits the Shika gets. In all honesty, I haven't really cared when I've seen a Shika online (no matter what ship I'm in). The AA is better but it still doesn't stop cvs from trashing them. 

I'm pretty meh about the superships so far if their Ranked performance I have witnessed is anything to go off of (though I did see on Conde go nuts and wack a bunch of people). lmbo

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