DD's and BB's

[Takxis]

just reading through the blurbs etc and was alarmed to find a hint that a DD has the ability to hit and damage a BB with its guns!!!! is this a fact or just my misunderstanding? having played naval table top games for decades and read alot of history as well that was one thing DD's could not do, even most cruisers could not penetrate the armour on a decent BB. i am looking forward to a computer based naval game but if it is as unrealistic as DD's and CC's sinking BB's with guns (torps is fine) then i question how realistic it is and wether it is good to play at all. for those who are in the Beta test let me know your thoughts.

[Moksie]

Adjustments are gradually being made, but no it's far more realistic than that portrayal.  There were bugs that were allowing DD guns to do more damage than they should.  Don't worry.  A DD won't last very long shooting at a BB with it's guns, trust me.

[NargilFenris]

Sure a DD can hurt a BB with its guns, the same way a ant can hurt a human. Just going to take a LOT of hits.

[Takxis]

but there is no way a 4or5" shell is doing anything but bounce off 12+ inches of armour!!!

[Fuchsy]

but there is no way a 4or5" shell is doing anything but bounce off 12+ inches of armour!!!

Perhaps with AP it would bounce off.

But with HE, that's a different story.

[seanboud]

but there is no way a 4or5" shell is doing anything but bounce off 12+ inches of armour!!!

 

There is precedent to suggest that DDs can damage the hell out of the upper works, set fires, wreck firecontrol, and generally cause havoc with their little 5 inch guns.

 

Both during the Second Battle of Guadalcanal and Battle off Samar destroyers acquitted themselves well against battleships and did good damage...albeit not below the waterline or to main turrets.

[Takxis]

cause havoc but not sink. there is a reason DD's dont join the battle line look at Jutland etc. their they scared the enemy by their torps but otherwise stayed out of it. and on a BB all the vital stuff is well armoured. especially the US who adopted all or nothing armour, cover the vital bits with heaps the no vital with next to nothing. and at guadalcanal the Jap ships were BC's a different fish

[Fuchsy]

cause havoc but not sink. there is a reason DD's dont join the battle line look at Jutland etc. their they scared the enemy by their torps but otherwise stayed out of it. and on a BB all the vital stuff is well armoured. especially the US who adopted all or nothing armour, cover the vital bits with heaps the no vital with next to nothing. and at guadalcanal the Jap ships were BC's a different fish

This isn't meant to be a simulator or realistic game.

it's meant to be an arcade-like game, and you have to realize at some point, game balance is above all.

DD and CA damage is meant to be a balancing factor against BBs, if only BBs can sink BBs, there's something wrong with game balance.

[PowerDown_123]

Yeah, use HE against battleships and hope for crits.

[TornadoADV]

This isn't meant to be a simulator or realistic game.

it's meant to be an arcade-like game, and you have to realize at some point, game balance is above all.

DD and CA damage is meant to be a balancing factor against BBs, if only BBs can sink BBs, there's something wrong with game balance.

 

I think you mean CL. CAs were more then capable of engaging BBs.

[Fuchsy]

 

I think you mean CL. CAs were more then capable of engaging BBs.

Yeah, it's late, got my designations mixed up.

 

In any case, OP mentioned CCs, or Battlecruisers, being able to sink BBs as being unrealistic.

>.>

[Hans_Von_Lohman]

but there is no way a 4or5" shell is doing anything but bounce off 12+ inches of armour!!!

 

Correct, but that presumes that battleships are made of solid armor everywhere.

 

Actually, battleships are not armored that much.  Every where you see portholes for example.  No armor there.  

 

Really, the only armor on a battleship is the waterline from the front to the rear turret, the frontal faceplate of the turrets, and the very small room that the captain stands inside when in combat (the conning tower).  The rest of the ship is fair game, and you can sink a battleship with enough hits, even small hits.  You can certainly damage one with small guns as both the bow and stern are not armored, and neither is the superstructure.

 

Armor on battleships is meant to stop the waterline from being holed and flooding the ship, the turrets from being knocked out, and to keep the captain alive, and most importantly to stop hits to the engines, boilers, and the ammo.

[Hans_Von_Lohman]

cause havoc but not sink. there is a reason DD's dont join the battle line look at Jutland etc. their they scared the enemy by their torps but otherwise stayed out of it. and on a BB all the vital stuff is well armoured. especially the US who adopted all or nothing armour, cover the vital bits with heaps the no vital with next to nothing. and at guadalcanal the Jap ships were BC's a different fish

 

Actually, at Jutland the destroyers were there in large numbers, having their own fights out in the middle between the two fleets as they tried to get close to the battleships (sometimes successfully) and even battleships having to fire their secondary armaments at enemy destroyers.

 

If you want details, I highly recommend a book called Jutland: A German Perspective (which is actually only about 40% from their side, most of it is British navy), and another book called Steel Castles which is about the Royal navy as a whole in WW-1.

 

You learn about ships like HMS Swift that was rammed by enemy destroyers, losing it's bow and then it's stern, but the middle section stayed afloat for several days and towed towards England, only being abandoned when the ships were needed to escort the wounded HMS Warspite to England instead.  Or the funny story of a German destroyer and a British destroyer that collided, both crews thinking they were going to sink, and some crew of both ships jumping onto the deck of the other destroyer.  Both survived, and had a few P.O.W.'s for their effort.

[AirshipCanon]

DD's can't really pen a BB's armor.
But they can load HE.

And guess what HE does? Causes Fires.

Fire can kill a BB.

 

You're not Penning the Citadel with rounds, but,  you can wreak havoc, and set things on fire.

[GraitOne]

Just want to add - in relation to DDs versus BBs ... Still seems that BBs can too easily kill DDs at long range. It seems long range ability to hit DDs should be much worse, and that when a DD gets into secondary range then those should tear them up quickly. The lighter IJN DDs do have much better range with their torps, but it seems they are easier to spot, and the BBs just swat them out of the water.

 

I play an Amagi and can kill DDs relatively easy - very seldom do I let any get close to me to fire close. As a DD I am finding it much harder to get in close, especially with things like the aim assist mods and for the US in particular, severely short ranged torps. 

[Dameon]

just reading through the blurbs etc and was alarmed to find a hint that a DD has the ability to hit and damage a BB with its guns!!!! is this a fact or just my misunderstanding? having played naval table top games for decades and read alot of history as well that was one thing DD's could not do, even most cruisers could not penetrate the armour on a decent BB. i am looking forward to a computer based naval game but if it is as unrealistic as DD's and CC's sinking BB's with guns (torps is fine) then i question how realistic it is and wether it is good to play at all. for those who are in the Beta test let me know your thoughts.

 

I've played a lot of table top naval miniatures, from the light easy stuff like War At Sea, Victory at Sea, Naval Thunder and on up to Harpoon and even SeaKreig. I would say that nearly all of those rule sets are extremely biased towards being Battleship centric. In most, DDs are regulated to little more than 1-hit-wonders: curiosities at best and at worst a petty annoyance to the big-gun Admirals those rule sets pander too.

[AirshipCanon]

Just want to add - in relation to DDs versus BBs ... Still seems that BBs can too easily kill DDs at long range. It seems long range ability to hit DDs should be much worse, and that when a DD gets into secondary range then those should tear them up quickly. The lighter IJN DDs do have much better range with their torps, but it seems they are easier to spot, and the BBs just swat them out of the water.

 

I play an Amagi and can kill DDs relatively easy - very seldom do I let any get close to me to fire close. As a DD I am finding it much harder to get in close, especially with things like the aim assist mods and for the US in particular, severely short ranged torps. 

 

If a DD is letting you HvG it, it's the DD's fault, either being too predictable, or not paying attention. 

Vs. Bots... well, it's Vs. Bots.

Vs. Players, bad Player, probably there for torpedoes.