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Bandi73

PSA. The subs that you engaged/played on PTS are.....not the ones that will come to Coop and Ranked.....Its not pretty

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https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/188

In a nutshell.......we have underwater missiles in wows. They are kinda nuclear too  :(

 

ST 0.10.7, CHANGES TO SUBMARINES

Changes will be applied to torpedoes and the "Hydrophone" consumable for all submarines.

 

German submarine U-69, Tier VI

  • Changed the parameters of torpedoes:
    • Speed increased from 57 to 73 knots.
    • Detectability increased from 1.5 to 1.9 km.
    • Maximum damage increased from 5,800 to 7,067.
    • Reload time reduced from 60 to 58 s.
  • Changed the "Hydrophone" consumable:
    • Action time of the consumable increased from 45 to 60 s.
    • Detection of ships reduced from 7.5 to 6 km.
    • Detection of submarines reduced from 7.5 to 6 km.

German submarine U-190, Tier VIII:

  • Changed the parameters of torpedoes:
    • Speed increased from 62 to 77 knots.
    • Detectability increased from 1.7 to 2.1 km.
    • Maximum damage increased from 5,800 to 7,467.
  • Changed the "Hydrophone" consumable:
    • Action time of the consumable increased from 45 to 60 s.
    • Detection of ships reduced from 8 to 6.5 km.
    • Detection of submarines reduced from 8 to 6.5 km.

German submarine U-2501, Tier X:

  • Changed the parameters of torpedoes:
    • Speed increased from 64 to 82 knots.
    • Detectability increased from 1.7 to 2.2 km.
    • Maximum damage increased from 5,800 to 7,700.
  • Changed the "Hydrophone" consumable:
    • Action time of the consumable increased from 45 to 60 s.
    • Detection of ships reduced from 8.5 to 7 km.
    • Detection of submarines reduced from 8.5 to 7 km.

American submarine Cachalot, Tier VI:

  • Changed the parameters of torpedoes:
    • Speed increased from 66 to 82 knots.
    • Detectability increased from 1.7 to 2.2 km.
    • Maximum damage increased from 6,500 to 7,833.
    • Reload time reduced from 52 to 50 s.
  • Changed the "Hydrophone" consumable:
    • Action time of the consumable increased from 30 to 45 s.
    • Detection of ships reduced from 7 to 5.5 km.
    • Detection of submarines reduced from 7 to 5.5 km.

American submarine Salmon, Tier VIII:

  • Changed the parameters of torpedoes:
    • Speed increased from 68 to 86 knots.
    • Detectability increased from 1.8 to 2.3 km.
    • Maximum damage increased from 6,500 to 7,833.
    • Reload time reduced from 50 to 48 s.
  • Changed the "Hydrophone" consumable:
    • Action time of the consumable increased from 30 to 45 s.
    • Detection of ships reduced from 7.5 to 6 km.
    • Detection of submarines reduced from 7.5 to 6 km.

American submarine Balao, Tier X:

  • Changed the parameters of torpedoes:
    • Speed increased from 70 to 89 knots.
    • Detectability increased from 1.9 to 2.4 km.
    • Maximum damage increased from 6,500 to 7,833.
  • Changed the "Hydrophone" consumable:
    • Action time of the consumable increased from 30 to 45 s.
    • Detection of ships reduced from 8 to 6.5 km.
    • Detection of submarines reduced from 8 to 6.5 km.

 

 

Any pretence about "balancing", is.....left behind.....

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In a nutshell, the increased speed is compensated for by the range at which they will be detected. Subs will also have to get closer in order to detect you.

Torpedo strength has been increased from "Weaksauce" to "Swedish tickler".

 

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We know, PTS is only proof of concept... Meaning, we test the foundation of a mechanic...

Once the foundation is set... Then comes the content intended to be in the  patch...


Everything and anything is subject to change in PTS, until the contents are transferred to the live server.

Once transferred to the live server.. Its set in stone, no drastic changes are going to be made.

Edited by Navalpride33

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20 minutes ago, Bandi73 said:

In a nutshell.......we have underwater missiles in wows. They are kinda nuclear too  :(

think need bump damage up a bit to call them nukes :Smile_veryhappy:

 

 

but i like the speed bumps

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Subs were kinda bad on PTS, struggle to really do anything. IMO they needed a buff. I'm not sure if this is the one they needed, but I guess that's why they're only getting a live test instead of release.

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7 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

In a nutshell, the increased speed is compensated for by the range at which they will be detected. Subs will also have to get closer in order to detect you.

Tbh, the last iteration of subs which I tried ( both ways) was the very first, two sessions., so I can't really comment. But what I see is an inversion of roles Instead of being scouts, they are now effectively predators, which rely on others to scout. It is really stupid. Instead of trying to confer a teamplay role, they go the other way around.:Smile_facepalm:

7 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Torpedo strength has been increased from "Weaksauce" to "Swedish tickler".

Which if they are homing on....ouch. And now they are a sort of effective weapon on its own. Without homing.

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Do you enjoy dodging Halland torps? Get ready because now you'll be dodging homing Halland torps.

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21 minutes ago, Slimeball91 said:

As I posted earlier, 80-90 knot homing torps.  Is WG out of their minds?

 

8 minutes ago, AJTP89 said:

Subs were kinda bad on PTS, struggle to really do anything. IMO they needed a buff. I'm not sure if this is the one they needed, but I guess that's why they're only getting a live test instead of release.

Yeah, I can agree with this.

You have to fire the torps, and then ping the target once to get them to track and then a second time for the possible citadel hit.

I had problems just getting the damn things to track with one ping and usually they were already beyond the target when I did so. So the speed boost, on the one hand looks threatening, I believe the average player will have issues.

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Did you actually play the subs on the PTS?  The actual damage done in a match was abysmal. 

I think the "It's not pretty" part is the wrong way round. They needed a buff, badly.

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Subs will be more annoying than anything.  Sure, they will get a big hit here and there, but nothing really that they couldn't have done if they had been in a DD.  The annoying part will be trying to find and kill them, while they keep you spotted and you have limited means of retaliation.

I don't think they have even confirmed yet that all boats will have ASW defenses.....so you could have a scenario like we have now where you have a CV going against a ship with little or no AA......one ship has all the advantages.

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23 minutes ago, Slimeball91 said:

As I posted earlier, 80-90 knot homing torps.  Is WG out of their minds?

Sorry I didn't saw it. They are doing the same mistake as with Cv's. All over, again.

 

12 minutes ago, AJTP89 said:

Subs were kinda bad on PTS, struggle to really do anything. IMO they needed a buff. I'm not sure if this is the one they needed, but I guess that's why they're only getting a live test instead of release.

I kinda see your point, but, they also increased their  speed like there is no tomorrow. Its...stupid. It is really stupid.

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1 minute ago, Bandi73 said:

Sorry I didn't saw it. They are doing the same mistake as with Cv's. All over, again.

 

I kinda see your point, but, they also increased their  speed like there is no tomorrow. Its...stupid. It is really stupid.

Keep in mind that we are not getting subs yet.  They are not releasing in the patch and we don't get to keep them.  It's a live test, for more balancing.

That said, like I said above, they were bad on the PTS.  If this is an overbuff, they can just turn them back down some, but they needed help.

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2 minutes ago, Burnsy said:

Did you actually play the subs on the PTS?   

Like I said only the very first iteration pre subtest server. Hunting them in the Leander was crazy fun.

2 minutes ago, Burnsy said:

  The actual damage done in a match was abysmal. 

 They needed a buff, badly.

I'm not disputing that. But is waay too much. 

2 minutes ago, Burnsy said:

I think the "It's not pretty" part is the wrong way round. 

I'm afraid its very accurate. They are going in the wrong direction. Again. They are nerfing detection, thus rendering them not team contributors  Do we really  need another class to be hated on??! 

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16 minutes ago, Bandi73 said:

Sorry I didn't saw it. They are doing the same mistake as with Cv's. All over, again.

 

I kinda see your point, but, they also increased their  speed like there is no tomorrow. Its...stupid. It is really stupid.

Did you play the old version? Two to four torps at a time. Even with homing it was often easy for a BB to dodge, and hitting DDs was impossible. The speed increase will help that. Will it be too much? Maybe. But it's impossible to judge without playing them. The only stupid thing here is judging without actually testing.

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10 minutes ago, Bandi73 said:

Like I said only the very first iteration pre subtest server. Hunting them in the Leander was crazy fun.

I'm not disputing that. But is waay too much. 

I'm afraid its very accurate. They are going in the wrong direction. Again. They are nerfing detection, thus rendering them not team contributors  Do we really  need another class to be hated on??! 

I think your response is jumping the shark and a bit over the top. The degree in which subs actually did anything useful, was the worst of any test I have been a part of.  It wasn't just....eh, they need a little help, it was bad.

We won't know how the changes play out in practice, in actual game play, until they are tested.  As this is still a test, if the additional speed is a problem that slants in the other direction, they can be adjusted down some, as easily as they were adjusted up.

It's important to share opinions but context is equally important, in that they are being brought to the live server in a limited form, for further testing.

That said, I wouldn't worry about people "hating" or "liking" subs.  The vast majority that dislike them, are going to do so, even if they are nerfed into complete uselessness.  Many would not be satisfied with anything short of complete removal, see CVs.  As that is nearly completely insured to not happen at this point...those people cannot be satisfied.

 

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1 minute ago, Burnsy said:

That said, I wouldn't worry about people "hating" or "liking" subs.  The vast majority that dislike them, are going to do so, even if they are nerfed into complete uselessness.  Many would not be satisfied with anything short of complete removal, see CVs.  As that is nearly completely insured to not happen at this point...those people cannot be satisfied.

Remove subs/CVs and those people will be satisfied, at lest on those issues. 

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I don't know what you are getting excited about. The changes I see all fall in line with what we seemed to see during the PTS.   I can't speak for Tier X though as I didn't get to gold rank to try the two I had.

 

I did, however, play the other four subs (two Tier VI and two Tier VIII) and the Tier VIII subs damage was bad.. very bad.  In another post on here, I posted screen caps of hitting a Kansas with 24 torpedoes over four minutes and it lived... that bad.  So seeing this boost in torp damage makes perfect senses.

They also seem to be nerfing the detection radius of Hydrophones for subs.  Seems like a good idea.  I had no problem finding and hitting stuff, especially other subs. I killed several.  I didn't pay a lot of attention to detection though, nor did i use the hydrophone much, so I am not 100% sure of the need for that nerf.

The last time I played before the PTS ended, I was just starting to learn how to break target locks and avoid other people's torpedoes.  Ironically, I learned the most watching the bot subs porpoise up and down to break my ping locks on them :)

There's other bigger issues that will show up when the patch drops.  These updates are minor in comparison, IMO

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3 minutes ago, Slimeball91 said:

Remove subs/CVs and those people will be satisfied, at lest on those issues. 

Right, that's the only action that will make happy for those.  That 100% isn't going to happen with CVs at this point and it is extremely unlikely to happen with subs at this point.  So engaging with those posts or trying to make those players happy with nerfs, is completely pointless. 

It's not that their opinion doesn't have value, it's that the thing they want to happen, just isn't in the current realm of WG's discussion.

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Well there are already DD torpedoes with those speeds. :Smile-angry:      Notice those torpedoes detectability are on the HIGH end spectrum meaning Shimikaze like.  

Still have not addressed the surface battery recharge capabilities which is abysmal at best.   

Realize even the SLOWEST BB in T6 can OUTRUN the surface speed of these subs  :Smile-_tongue:   

 

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I embrace the subs with open arms. Give DD Users something else to complain about besides CV. They can now pick a poison. 

 

All I can say to DD users at this point is "Better not shout, better not cry, better not scream those homing torps are going in dry..."

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3 minutes ago, Noworriesderpy1 said:

Notice those torpedoes detectability are on the HIGH end spectrum meaning Shimikaze like.

Cool, you'll get to see it homing in on you stupidly fast.

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6 minutes ago, Done_Dirt_Cheap said:

I did, however, play the other four subs (two Tier VI and two Tier VIII) and the Tier VIII subs damage was bad.. very bad.  In another post on here, I posted screen caps of hitting a Kansas with 24 torpedoes over four minutes and it lived... that bad.  So seeing this boost in torp damage makes perfect senses.

Tbh I agree with that. I would even agree with more damage. But the speed bump is not a mild one. It is    stupidly exaggerated..

6 minutes ago, Done_Dirt_Cheap said:

They also seem to be nerfing the detection radius of Hydrophones for subs.  Seems like a good idea.  I had no problem finding and hitting stuff, especially other subs. I killed several.  I didn't pay a lot of attention to detection though, nor did i use the hydrophone much, so I am not 100% sure of the need for that nerf.

But that's the biggest problem. Because renders subs as scouts or cap contesters ineffective thus reducing their contributions. Why should anyone try to play team when they could confy sit back and farm damage? Instead of actually doing teamwork?.

6 minutes ago, Done_Dirt_Cheap said:

There's other bigger issues that will show up when the patch drops.  These updates are minor in comparison, IMO

I don't think so. What is see is a direction. They are pushing subs into something... not good for the game. 

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10 minutes ago, Bandi73 said:

Tbh I agree with that. I would even agree with more damage. But the speed bump is not a mild one. It is    stupidly exaggerated..

But that's the biggest problem. Because renders subs as scouts or cap contesters ineffective thus reducing their contributions. Why should anyone try to play team when they could confy sit back and farm damage? Instead of actually doing teamwork?.

I don't think so. What is see is a direction. They are pushing subs into something... not good for the game. 

Well wouldn't you agree that if a submarine could cap a point under water and the other team didn't have a submarine it would be highly unfair?.

Hell I can't name a SINGLE BB player that didn't camp in the back just shoot from a distance. Literally if they removed the whole capture the point on the maps and just make it a team deathmatch you would see more action. 

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