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Nordlaender

Maximum Torp Damage Listed for CVs is Incorrect

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After playing Ryujo for two years now, I can definitely say that the maximum torpedo damage of 6,500 HP is totally incorrect.  This needs to be fixed.

The absolute maximum torpedo damage on ANY ship in the game is 6,000 HP (rounded off).  The actual maximum for Ryujo is 5,97... something.

The absolute maximum torpedo damage for Furious is 4,500 HP. 

This does not count detonations, which could be as high as 60,000 HP damage.

Why would WG list Ryujo's max torp damage at 6,500 HP when it knows that it cannot go above 6k on ANY ship in the game?

Is this a bug?

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8 minutes ago, SKurj said:

ships have torp damage reduction...

I know.  But they must have torpedo protection for that.  Light cruisers don't have that, so that's where you get 5,900-seventy something damage.

If ALL ships have torp reduction, then the max number is a fantasy number that does not belong in the game.  It should be changed to 6,000 HP.  (That's also a fantasy number, but I'm fine with rounding it up 25 hp.)

Edited by Nordlaender

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IIRC there's some sort of elaborate calculation for torp damage and the in-port numbers are only a part of that calculation. IIRC it also changes per target ship and class, and depends a lot on whether the section you're hitting is saturated or not. Mouse would know more, but she's in my basement, on enforced vacation.

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13 minutes ago, Lert said:

IIRC there's some sort of elaborate calculation for torp damage and the in-port numbers are only a part of that calculation. IIRC it also changes per target ship and class, and depends a lot on whether the section you're hitting is saturated or not. Mouse would know more, but she's in my basement, on enforced vacation.

8ks8nTa.jpg

The in-port calculation is:  Max Torpedo Damage =  [ (alpha damage / 3) + damage ] and has only a vague bearing on the damage values you will expect to see.  The actual calculations are weird and involve using an AOE blast effect to calculate which portions of your ship have been hit.   If you want to really bake your noodle, try using USS Black's torpedoes.  They have an advertised in-port damage value of 21,600 but you will never (EVER) get close to that value, usually sitting around 16k if I recall 12k to 14k (I didn't recall correctly and had to look it up).  Not only that, they have an enormous blast effect which helps mitigate anti-torpedo defences.

Edited by LittleWhiteMouse
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So here's how torpedo damage is calculated specifically.  For this you need to do a bit of datamining or you can pull up the info from sites like gamemodels3d.com which have the stats we need displayed.  These stats are:

  • Torpedo Alpha Damage
  • Torpedo Damage
  • Torpedo Blast Radius

Stuntman9630 and I spent one lovely week in July of 2019 trying to figure this all out.  What we determined (before our brains melted) the in game torpedo damage calculation for an amidships (not extremity) torpedo hit that doesn't hit anti-torpedo defences is:  [ Torpedo Alpha Damage * 0.33 ] + [ Torpedo Damage * 0.33 x (Blast Radius Multiplier) ]  This is a gross over-simplification as the 0.33 value should be dropped to 0.165 and applied both to the hull section struck and the ship's overall hit points, but we'll keep it simple for the sake of this example. 

The Torpedo Blast Radius multiplier APPEARS to be correlated to how big the torpedo blast size is.  This value appears to range from x2 to x10 depending (our best guess is that this has something to do with the number of hull sections the explosion overlaps). So if we take Ryujo's torpedoes we have the following values:

  1. 17,400 Alpha Damage
  2. 700 damage
  3. 0.9 Blast Radius (x2 predicted Blast Radius Multiplier)

Thus for a perfect amidships, not-mitigated by anti-torpedo defence hit, Ryujo's torpedoes should be doing: 6,204 damage.  If it has a bigger blast radius multiplier, it would be 6,435.  How did I do?

Edited by LittleWhiteMouse
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1 minute ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Thus for a perfect amidships, not-mitigated by anti-torpedo defence hit, Ryujo's torpedoes should be doing: 6,204 damage.

How does saturation factor in?

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Just now, Lert said:

How does saturation factor in?

We never got that far before our brains turned to mush.  Best guess?  Alpha damage gets sliced in half.  The damage value may lose some of its multipliers if the damage is indeed coming from multiple sections.  But without an ability to determine where the damage is coming from?  Stupid hard to figure out.

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1 minute ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

We never got that far before our brains turned to mush.  Best guess?  Alpha damage gets sliced in half.  The damage value may lose some of its multipliers if the damage is indeed coming from multiple sections.  But without an ability to determine where the damage is coming from?  Stupid hard to figure out.

So theoretically that could be where OPs numbers are coming from.

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3 minutes ago, Lert said:

So theoretically that could be where OPs numbers are coming from.

Possibly, but 6,204 is right where we would expect Ryujo's torpedoes to be anyway without any saturation.

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1 hour ago, Nordlaender said:

The actual maximum for Ryujo is 5,97... something.

Was it 5,973?  That would give them a blast radius multiplier of x1.  Stuntman9630 and I never got around to testing CV torps.

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2 hours ago, Nordlaender said:

The absolute maximum torpedo damage for Furious is 4,500 HP. 

Let's do Furious math.

  • Alpha Damage: 13,800
  • Damage: 600
  • Blast Radius:  ???  Going to assume a 1x modifier, the same as Ryujo, but we'll see what it takes to get close to his 4,500.

In Port Value: 5,200

[ Torpedo Alpha Damage * 0.33 ] + [ Torpedo Damage * 0.33 x (Blast Radius Multiplier) ] 
[ (13,800) * 0.33 ] + [ (600) x 0.33 x (1) ]
[ 4,554 ] + [ 198 ]
4,752

This seems a little high based on what you're saying.  Lemme collect some test examples using the same methodology Stuntman9630 and I were using a couple of years ago (hittihg Khabarovsks).

1HZRO9r.jpg
Tested damage:  4,534

For that value to work with the math, the blast modifier is 0.5, which is the lowest I've seen so far.  Here's some of the tables that Stuntman9630 and I collected back in the day:

76Sb9Aw.png

unknown.png

You're not wrong to be confused.  The in-port stats aren't really helpful and set an unreasonable expectation for how much damage torpedoes will do.

 

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Wow, this insanely interesting. I always assumed that my torps werent doing the damage advertised because of saturation and/or torpedo reduction. 

Some of the elements of this game seem far to complex for what it is, an arcade shooter. Then again, I dont know much about game design aspects.

 

ALSO:  I miss Stuntman. He was one of my favorite CCs.

 

Edited by Skuggsja

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1 hour ago, Skuggsja said:

ALSO:  I miss Stuntman. He was one of my favorite CCs.

I miss him too.  He was so much fun to work with and I loved his insight and patience for digging into mechanics.  We were like peas in a pod that way, content to tackle a problem for hours and days on end.

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@LittleWhiteMouse

Did some testing in the Training Room after seeing this post.  These were the best numbers I was able to pull from both the tests shown and striking an Elbing amid-ships with each type of torp.

 

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7 hours ago, Lert said:

IIRC there's some sort of elaborate calculation for torp damage and the in-port numbers are only a part of that calculation. IIRC it also changes per target ship and class, and depends a lot on whether the section you're hitting is saturated or not. Mouse would know more, but she's in my basement, on enforced vacation.

I did hundreds of tests in the Training room on all kinds of ships from Tier 2 to Tier 10, and not one torp hit ever reached 6,000 HP damage.

This is just based on my experience over the past two years and then noticing that the max torp damage was set at 6,500, which I never got under ANY circumstances in ANY type of battle mode.  So...?

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7 hours ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Thus for a perfect amidships, not-mitigated by anti-torpedo defence hit, Ryujo's torpedoes should be doing: 6,204 damage.  If it has a bigger blast radius multiplier, it would be 6,435.  How did I do?

That's all well and good, but it does not happen in the real world (of World of Warships).

I think they need to be more realistic about what the REAL damage limit is.  For Ryujo, it would be 6,000 HP damage -- tops  (rounded up).

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5 hours ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Let's do Furious math.

I have to say I never expected to attract the attention of Little White Mouse, so... something must be up here.  :cap_wander:

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This is the most damage I have ever gotten from a single torp hit with Ryujo:

1052393247_MaxTorpDamage.thumb.jpg.3878edfd914d72fb541302dc903ccf9c.jpg

That's the maximum I ever got, so it is 29 points below 6,000 HP damage.  The real limit for Ryujo is 6 k damage.

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