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Say It Cant Be So

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Am I reading this right or did I just miss it somewhere in the blog.

The Worlds Bestest EVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRR Navy is not getting its Subs released in 10.7 !!!!!!!!!!!  I"M SHOCKED:Smile_ohmy:

 

Somebody tell me I'm wrong, WG I cant believe your not releasing your Tier 6 RED OCTOBER  class for rank.

 

Oh wait maybe they have not finalised the balancing of Armed Trawlers yet.  

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The Soviet Navy actually used submarines in WWII.  Matter of fact, one of them was responsible for one of the greatest maritime disasters in modern history when they sunk a German passenger liner that was evacuating civilians from East Prussia in January 1945.  But you're complaining about Soviet WWII-era subs?

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Probably difficult to get blueprints for an Akula. 

But enough about their T6.

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12 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

The Soviet Navy actually used submarines in WWII.  Matter of fact, one of them was responsible for one of the greatest maritime disasters in modern history when they sunk a German passenger liner that was evacuating civilians from East Prussia in January 1945.  But you're complaining about Soviet WWII-era subs?

That sub actually sank 2 liners and accounts for 13-14k casualties.

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18 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

The Soviet Navy actually used submarines in WWII.  Matter of fact, one of them was responsible for one of the greatest maritime disasters in modern history when they sunk a German passenger liner that was evacuating civilians from East Prussia in January 1945.  But you're complaining about Soviet WWII-era subs?

I'm actually being sarcastic about the fact that quite a lot but not all Russian ships are over balanced and expected this same application to apply to Russian Subs and for them to be released the same time as the most notable and arguable the BEST Sub faring nations.

Hell the Polish and Dutch Submarine service's had a better service record during WWII

But we are talking WG here and that has never got in the way of them making a mediocre branch of there armed forces shine in any game.   

 

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1 hour ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

one of them was responsible for one of the greatest maritime disasters in modern history when they sunk a German passenger liner that was evacuating civilians from East Prussia in January 1945

I hate being in the position of apologizing for Stalin, but if Hitler hadn't started a war....

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4 minutes ago, Farm_Fresh_Eggs said:

I hate being in the position of apologizing for Stalin, but if Hitler hadn't started a war....

Is it even a disaster if the ones killed are on the "evil side"? There were no Americans in that ship.

Edited by RyuuohD_NA
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37 minutes ago, RyuuohD_NA said:

Is it even a disaster if the ones killed are on the "evil side"? There were no Americans in that ship.

lets go with 'any civilian' deaths during wartime is a tragedy and leave it at that.

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Its still a disaster.

Doneitz was using the ship to evacuate civilians and various people. They quit counting at 7500 something who got aboard the Wilhelm Gustoloff. 9000 plus got on.

Due to a variety of mismanagement by ship leaders in known enemy sub infested waters it got torped properly. They only rescued 1200 something by morning. The rest dead.

We have lost Liners before. Those were kept secret in wartime out of necessity until after.

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1 minute ago, Lord_Slayer said:

lets go with 'any civilian' deaths during wartime is a tragedy and leave it at that.

Amen.

I think someone was trying to bring in politics as a form of poisoning this thread.

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45 minutes ago, RyuuohD_NA said:

Is it even a disaster if the ones killed are on the "evil side"? There were no Americans in that ship.

1. They were civilians, you know children was on the ship. Just because their country went to war doesn't mean they supported it.

2. The Soviets were also evil. 

3. If you think killing civilians (women and children) are is fine, then you probably are evil too.

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1 hour ago, Farm_Fresh_Eggs said:

I hate being in the position of apologizing for Stalin, but if Hitler hadn't started a war....

The Soviets also started the war. They split Poland with Germany. Attacking Poland with days of each other.

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10 minutes ago, jager_geist said:

The Soviets also started the war. They split Poland with Germany. Attacking Poland with days of each other.

Nailed it +1

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14 minutes ago, jager_geist said:

1. They were civilians, you know children was on the ship. Just because their country went to war doesn't mean they supported it.

2. The Soviets were also evil. 

3. If you think killing civilians (women and children) are is fine, then you probably are evil too.

Didn't stop the US from firebombing Japanese cities, which killed more civilians than the two atomic bombs combined.

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RIP thread... 

My bet is locked by page 2.

Edited by ArIskandir
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Innocents always die en masse when politicians go to war.

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14 minutes ago, RyuuohD_NA said:

Didn't stop the US from firebombing Japanese cities, which killed more civilians than the two atomic bombs combined.

That is a huge point Dan Carlin made in his latest Audio book / podcast on WW2 in the pacific. 

The fire bombing raid on Tokyo is said to have cost between 80 000 and 130 000 lives as 16 square miles of the city burned out.  


The US and British bombed civilians a lot.    With that horror and shame having been recognized.   Even when I grew up in germany there was absolutely no question about who the most honorable and best behaved occupation armies were.  That is the Americans and the British. 

 

 

Edited by eviltane

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16 minutes ago, RyuuohD_NA said:

Didn't stop the US from firebombing Japanese cities, which killed more civilians than the two atomic bombs combined.

That was because the Japanese Factories withstood more or less the high level bombing in very strong jet winds approaching 300 mph at altitude. Outside of the bobsights computers to adjust. They sat and thought about it a minute an then went ahead and burned the cities out using new weapons made for that purpose and new tactics to make sure they are on target. We took advantage of one of their weaknesses.

The thing is this. It was a total and absolute war. The Japanese would have no problem being extinct if they fought to the last man against all enemies in the final invasions. It was necessary to break them with the nuclear weapoins to save more lives uncountable. A total war.

When we say war today? Thats not war. Not on the main street here.

Anything will happen in a total war. Good, bad or the ugly. Civilians caught in the middle died. There is a village left standing as a ruin in France as a memorial. Everyone living there were destroyed.

However nothing compared to what we did to one of the german cities when we firebombed that place. They were telling stories of survivors being swept off their feet trying to cross the street fleeing the inferno by 300 mph winds feeding the core fire storm. Their bodies were pulled into the growing crematory while alive. Temps approached 3000F, enough to melt granite.

In modern war if a Russian Satan I800 kt nuclear warhead went off in a air burst 40 miles from you with you outside and in line of sight, you will be blinded and then burned badly enough as to require medical care which will no longer exist. You have two choices at that point. Having someone take you out of your pain which will be unbearable or slowly dying from a variety of effects of a system wide burns to 2nd degree.

IF DC was to be hit by one at noon on monday workday you can expect a million dead, three times that hurt in a variety of ways and burns that cannot be treated by a medical system which no longer exists. It will kill survivors slowly for a month. Radiation gets the rest. Call it 3 million to 5 million dead just from one.

Cold war targert plats of DC that was declassified showed a diamond with 32 warheads targeted in such a manner that their fireballs will touch each other with 12 extra for Langley. (CIA etc0

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There is no such thing as sanitized war.   When a nation goes to war it must be total war in order to shorten the war as much as possible and that does mean inflicting death and destruction on all of the enemy, including non-combatants.   The Tokyo fire bombing was far more destructive than either of the Atomic Bombs dropped after that Tokyo raid.   Combined those 3 attacks and ongoing fire bombing attacks all over Japan's home island were instrumental in giving the Emperor the necessary influence and power to over ride his military commanders and order surrender ending the war.   That saved upwards of a million US Soldiers, Sailors, Marines, and Airmen projected as losses if we had had to land to defeat the Japanese on their home island.

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55 minutes ago, RyuuohD_NA said:

Didn't stop the US from firebombing Japanese cities, which killed more civilians than the two atomic bombs combined.

Your point is??? The US and UK both firebombed Germany. Killing 10s of thousands in a night. And that's not evil how? You implied that killing civilians wasn't bad if their country was evil, not me. I say that is wrong thinking.

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2 hours ago, Farm_Fresh_Eggs said:

I hate being in the position of apologizing for Stalin, but if Hitler hadn't started a war....

Russia invaded poland too...read some history

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3 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

The Soviet Navy actually used submarines in WWII.  Matter of fact, one of them was responsible for one of the greatest maritime disasters in modern history when they sunk a German passenger liner that was evacuating civilians from East Prussia in January 1945.  But you're complaining about Soviet WWII-era subs?

you know your navy sucked when one of the few things their known for in WW2 was causing the largest maritime disaster in history and on a liner carrying innocent civilians no less

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2 hours ago, RyuuohD_NA said:

Is it even a disaster if the ones killed are on the "evil side"? There were no Americans in that ship.

im going to pretend i didnt just read what i think i just read here, because thats some full on scummyiness right there, it doesnt matter if the civilians were German, they were innocent bystanders, they had no reason to be killed

you know the saying "War is Hell"?

think about it, theres no innocent people in Hell, but war? war is full of innocent bystanders that get caught up in a fight they have no part in

Edited by tcbaker777
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2 hours ago, jager_geist said:

2. The Soviets were also evil. 

With the exception of actual fascists, nobody was "evil." Don't be simple minded. People did evil things yes, they did not believe an actual evil philosophy that demanded people in the outgroup be exterminated. All people in WWII did terrible things, only one side actually followed an evil cause.

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