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black_hull4

What kind of aerial ordnance is best used against forts?

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"A ship's a fool to fight a fort"- Horatio Nelson

OK, how about airplanes? Forts currently only exist in the Scenarios game mode. However, Wargaming has tested new game modes in the past, and a LONG time ago forts could be seen in Random & Co-Op as part of a sub-mode called "Bastion." In this thread I'll be discussing available types of ordnance & the 2 fort models, then asking the community what is the best way to neutralize them using a plane. 

There are 4 kinds of forts in-game, but you can only play against half(as of July 2020). The forts don't have any consumables, but only one fire can be set at a time. 

Adolfkanone H39:

The Adolf Gun is a giant in Harstad - Visit Northern NorwayThese have a turret mounting a 406mm cannon. They have mediocre traverse speed, a long reload, have no AA guns, and fire AP. They can be a pain to hit because they are thinner than bomb reticles & are often overshot by missiles. The gaps in attack runs by fighters are also a problem. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Entrance Fort:

image.png.a68a1811e651b0b26e1ef8970c9c6324.pngThese usually have their back to a mountain with all guns pointing outward. These have a powerful AA battery of four 88mm Flak 18 & three 20mm Flakvierling. Anti-ship armament consists of 3 German 150mm cannons, which have a quick traverse, mediocre reload, and fire HE. Beware the 45 degree fillet near the roof when using AP ordnance.

Now onto the ordnance. 

High-explosive bombs(precision bombing)

  • delivered from dive-bombers
  • used by the Americans & Junkers 87C Stuka
  • can set a fire
  • mass: 500 pounds

High-explosive bombs(carpet bombing)

  • delivered in groups by level bombers
  • used by the British, Dutch, and the American TB2D Skypirate
  • can set a fire
  • mass: varies from 30-220 pounds

High-explosive missiles

  • delivered in a combination strafing-rocket launch attack
  • used by the Americans, Japanese, British, and Soviets 
  • can set a fire

Armor-piercing missiles

  • delivered in a combination strafing-rocket launch attack
  • used by the Germans
  • have a 12 kilometer range when launched from high altitude

Armor-piercing bombs

  • delivered by dive-bombers
  • used by the Germans & Japanese
  • mass: 548-683 pounds

I am not someone to tell you which of these you should be using, since I haven't played them all. In my experience:

  • AP bombs do a reasonable amount of damage to forts, but not nearly as much as other types.
  • The thickness of forts' concrete walls must not be even, since AP missiles have an awful tendency to shatter or even ricochet. The upper fillet of an Entrance Fort is trollish too. So is the turret of the Adolfkanone.
  • For a while, Japanese HE missiles had mediocre performance against these. But somewhere in the timeline, the A6M2 Reisen got a huge buff, and can reliably take off over half an Entrance Fort's HP with one strike.
  • Use dive-bombers when attacking an Adolfkanone. If you use missiles or carpet bombers, much of your ordnance will land outside the target area.

Now I'm asking the community to go and bring their preferences & results. I need information on carpet bombers, American HE missiles, and German HE bombs.

@ObiphanKenobi should this be moved to "Game Guides and Tutorials"?

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Just let the team take care of the forts. They are not that much of a threat in game. They usually can be deleted in one salvo by most any BB and burned down or destroyed in due time by most cruisers. Emphasis on most. But not all. By the time you the CV assembles the strike and deploys, the forts are all gone. You are needed elsewhere.

As a CV in ops, plinking forts is not combat or supportive of victory. The forts do not matter much. You will better serve by flying to the far corners and detecting inbound enemy ships long before we need to deal with them in say Raptor Rescue. You also have the honor of torping and bombing them to your hearts content.

For example the Munchen. Its AP is no good against these forts in game so it must use HE and requires assistance to take out the fort. Such as in Narai or Killer Whale etc.

WG has no interest in evolving or supporting Ops mode. To me that's Extremely shortsighted and fails (Or deliberately being obtuse) to understand that more players are engaging in the ops mode as a way around the crappy MM and toxic Random, Ranked or whatever experience. Ops offers a better situation, more fun and somewhat larger rewards.

Edited by xHeavy
  • Cool 1

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My general guideline is under 8 inch (203mm) guns should fire HE as the fort will bounce these lower caliber AP shells.

Guns at or above 8 inch (203mm) should fire AP as the shel can punch through, especially BB caliber shells of 14 in (356mm) 15 in (383mm) 16in (406mm) typically carried by BBs at t6-t7.

 

I typically do not go after forts in a CV, as you need to be the one that destroys it to get the ribbon and Xp /credit, as merely damaging it seems to not give any xp/credits.

Edited by Boomer625

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Stay away from forts. In Killer Whale (afaik the only Op that currently has forts,) they will just slaughter your planes.

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4 hours ago, black_hull4 said:

"A ship's a fool to fight a fort"- Horatio Nelson

OK, how about airplanes? 

Very good presentation!!. That being said Cv 's have no bussiness attacking the forts, currently in the game. It is a giant waste of resources and time.

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Best use of a CV in Ops is to spot and kill ships (just don't spot the first group too early in Aegis, it makes the DD stop & smoke too early ). If there's a Molotov on your team, leave the forts to it. That thing eats forts. 

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If you really want to attack forts, I believe dive bombers are best suited for the job.

But as others have stated already, it is best to leave forts to your teammates and concentrate on sinking ships instead.

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If you want to break a fort, Eben Emanuel is the example at war collage via google online. Papers are freely available.

In Nelson's time forts fired Shell. You can refer to certain actions by the blockading fleet against France's biggest ships of the line by dropping a shell down a hatch. Burned it up. It was not salvage for combat. Used as store ship then scrapped. Fort McHenry I believe had Shells on hand the RN had Congreave Rockets and mortars from 2 miles. That fort had a fatal flaw with two of it's bombproofs. The third was attempted to be made safer by adding a angle into the hatch so that if it was detonated the spear of fire wont cremate the place.

Brick Forts were beaten until nothing. Shoot and repeat until rubble. You had Armored ships by then.

Over and over the Royal Navy would land Infantry, rations, over establishment of Marine Forces and ship artillery with powder and shot. Move overland and take enemy shore battery and leave after destroying it. Usually rebuilt in a few weeks. As were French Telegraph Semephore stations.

In Nelsons time to take on a fort was death. In the civil war US Time, Damn the Torpedoes (Underwater mines near Forts defended by armored confederate ships)

One fort I am reminded of that did not fall to attacking warships is Palmetto Fort in SC. Their flag flies that tree in memory. Finally but not last, As in case of Ft McHenry during the attack, the British landed Assault infantry south and east of it, however there were two other forts and one gunners daughter redoubts that shot them up as they try to assemble. And that was that.

 

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I haven't played CVs in Operations since before the carrier rework. Back then, you did your best to avoid the forts as they would destroy your aircraft and that was a bad thing because you could get deplaned really quickly. Not sure about post cv rework but would imagine their AA is still fairly good. Course with regenerating aircraft you can kind of do what you like in this regards, there is very little of consequence now when you make poor decisions with your squadrons. 

Edited by Taylor3006

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I agree with what the others said. Best thing is don't attack them. I leave the forts for the Surface ships. 

If you have to attack them for some reason dive bombers are the only viable plane to do it. TBs obviously can't attack them, rockets and level bombs do to little per attack to be worth it especially given the AA they forts throw up. DBs aren't hugely effective either but they are the only planes that do much of anything to forts at all. Even then there are some graphical issues with forts where the bombs visualoy hit them but don't register as hits. I never determined if HE DBs do more damage than AP but HE does have a splash which can knock out the forts guns even on a near miss. AP has to directly hit them and that sometimes fails to happen due to the graphical glitch.

Overall just avoid the forts. There are no instances where you have to attack them with planes. Just fly around them. Their AA is strong but it is very short-ranged and you can easily avoid it. The cost-benefit for attacking the forts with planes is so bad it isn't worth it. 

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