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Shomaruki

The Challenge finds out that Rockets...

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So thanks to a great tester we found out something with the rockets and CVs. With that being said, I am a CV main however I know what fairness is deserved. I will explain my findings here and later a post with some data will be uploaded in a few.

  1. The Delay in Rockets Does it need to stay? Yes I played using my T5 DD against a HoSho, Kaga , Saipan, and tX CV. 
    1. The biggest question is can rockets be dodged still? Yes. 
    2. Can CVs still be effective Yes BUT

There is something WG perhaps didn't take into account and that was Rocket Speed. 

KAGA

I had my own Kaga used on me as a T5 DD and we did different situations from trying NOT to dodge so actually dodging. When it came to the Kaga, the rockets was soo slow I didn't have to put much effort into them period to avoid them. I could of went into a straight line even with my tester doing a lead up those missiles were extremely slow. I'm aware the Kaga doesn't have that many rockets but that rocket speed shouldn't also be different as well. I personally nor does my tester who has more experience believe this was a mistake. All the other CVS on the list have rockets shooting off on a dime after the machineguns. 

HoSho 

 SHOULD of been almost identical to the Kaga but the rockets launch way quicker (And more focused center..more pinpoint then shotgun) <- I wish these rockets were on Kaga.

Saipan

Fast rockets and hit as intended,  They are dodge able but this is what separate good vs bad DD players against CV. You have to pay attention to the machineguns

Tier X Ha

 They are fast rockets works as intended at this level you have to focus on the dodge. If he lines up on side of you best turn to avoid.

 

We didn't try every single CV but I'm willing to bet a ship to anyone that Rocket Speed wasn't calculated with the side of also Delay added into the game. So if you are going against a Kaga, you might feel like "Get Gud" feeling and say the CV Captain just sucks with rockets. If you fighting a Saipan and get hit it feels like you weren't really paying too much attention. So as I stated 

 

I SUPPORT the delay in Rockets, However I don't think Rocket Speed was also considered and Needs adjustment across the board. The spread? Sure that's easily figured between each CV, but the speed in general is a huge different from Shooting 4 seconds ahead to shooting 6-7 seconds ahead. The window of error is too high.

Again, I got no beef against DD Captains Just did my Ship Challenge and it turns into an experiment that showed us both something. I had fun playing as a DD, Yes Planes are annoying but I feel like they are not where NEAR as annoying as people make it out to be on the forums. And my lil t5 DD was shooting down planes so I didn't feel helpless but I did have to zig-zag a bunch <3.  I'll tell you this though, you get hit by a torp playing as a DD by a plane that's 100% on you.  I can dodge those literally on a dime o.o

EDIT!

 

This Rocket Speed maybe focused primarily on the Kaga

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Shomaruki
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I have no problem in looking at changes to CVs that were badly affected by the rocket change.

My main issue with your other thread was that you tried to show a game with only one rocket hit as some kind of - OMG its so bad, change it back (sarcastic comment) - yet you scored over 100k. You proved you didn't need your rockets.

 

But again, if a CV has been badly affected, then I'm all for them being buffed in some manner.

Edited by _WaveRider_
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Kaga is the odd one out with the slow rocket speed. I think they might even be slower than before the delay change. All other CVs have had their rocket speed increased to compensate a bit for the delay. Certainly is weird.

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1 minute ago, _WaveRider_ said:

I have no problem in looking at changes to CVs that were badly affected by the rocket change.

My main issue with your other thread was that you tried to show a game with only one rocket hit as some kind of - OMG its so bad, change it back (sarcastic comment) - yet you scored over 100k. You proved you didn't need your rockets.

 

But again, if a CV has been badly affected, then I'm all for them being buffed in some manner.

I did that solely to prove to DD players that if I wanted to sink them, rockets are not the only method to the madness. How long until they complain "Bombers are OP, torps are OP" I'm one of the people who you give the problem, I'll test it under their situation and see how well it holds up. I'm about to jump into a game now o.o

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13 minutes ago, Shomaruki said:

I did that solely to prove to DD players that if I wanted to sink them, rockets are not the only method to the madness. How long until they complain "Bombers are OP, torps are OP" I'm one of the people who you give the problem, I'll test it under their situation and see how well it holds up. I'm about to jump into a game now o.o

Well to be fair, I think your view of yourself is a little bias ('I'm one of the people you give the problem to'?). Aren't you the one that has been complaining and using sarcasm to attack a pixel ship type rather than getting on with it?

Please go and do your tests, I'm all for it; just don't be too disappointed if WGs review of thousands of player matches doesn't match up to what you find.

For instance, in the other thread you are saying speed makes or breaks the balance - yet you scored 100k in a game where the rocket did not have the speed - so therefore if the Kaga did well, it obviously doesn't need the speed(?), it did perfectly well enough with what it has.

 

There will always be players that complain. I would hazard a guess that WG don't take one bit of notice to the general complaints made on the forum. A DD player can complain every single day that it isn't fair that they have the lowest survivability on average - guess what, it ain't going to change lol. WG may try to help them in some ways (like the rocket change) - but if you think they will ever be allowed to raise their survival average above the other current ship types.....no way!

Why, because even though it might be good to try and better their chances of survival in certain ways, they have advantages over the other ship types that in general balance the credits and XP earnings.

 

Edited by _WaveRider_

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21 minutes ago, _WaveRider_ said:

Well to be fair, I think your view of yourself is a little bias ('I'm one of the people you give the problem to'?). Aren't you the one that has been complaining and using sarcasm to attack a pixel ship type rather than getting on with it?

Please go and do your tests, I'm all for it; just don't be too disappointed if WGs review of thousands of player matches doesn't match up to what you find.

For instance, in the other thread you are saying speed makes or breaks the balance - yet you scored 100k in a game where the rocket did not have the speed - so therefore if the Kaga did well, it obviously doesn't need the speed(?), it did perfectly well enough with what it has.

 

There will always be players that complain. I would hazard a guess that WG don't take one bit of notice to the general complaints made on the forum. A DD player can complain every single day that it isn't fair that they have the lowest survivability on average - guess what, it ain't going to change lol. WG may try to help them in some ways (like the rocket change) - but if you think they will ever be allowed to raise their survival average above the other current ship types.....no way!

Why, because even though it might be good to try and better their chances of survival in certain ways, they have advantages over the other ship types that in general balance the credits and XP earnings.

 

Again, yes the Kaga did well, but that was not from me using Rocket Play. At the end of the day it's going to to depend on the the player. I'm no where near an expert in this game, but that game was solely to show a DD player that rockets are not needed. It showed CV Rocket Dependent players that Rockets are not needed.  It wasn't me picking a side it was really to show both sides that you can do with or without them. 100k Damage that's usually what I attempt to aim for every match. But really that depends on my teammates. I tell my teammates "Hey this is how I going to use my planes, If you could all go to Point A and B and work your way to C." And I even throw my fighters over my own DDs just for the mere fact I need them to capture points. Most of my points come for actually double/triple teaming one enemy. Hell if I see a DD throw torps down I'll follow up and and throw torps into the area where I see a ship is going to dodge at so he would have no choice but to hit either me or the DD.  :/ But that's just my play style. 

*edit*

 

I forgot to screenshot -.- Think I did let me check)

Edited by Shomaruki

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24 minutes ago, _WaveRider_ said:

Well to be fair, I think your view of yourself is a little bias ('I'm one of the people you give the problem to'?). Aren't you the one that has been complaining and using sarcasm to attack a pixel ship type rather than getting on with it?

Please go and do your tests, I'm all for it; just don't be too disappointed if WGs review of thousands of player matches doesn't match up to what you find.

For instance, in the other thread you are saying speed makes or breaks the balance - yet you scored 100k in a game where the rocket did not have the speed - so therefore if the Kaga did well, it obviously doesn't need the speed(?), it did perfectly well enough with what it has.

 

There will always be players that complain. I would hazard a guess that WG don't take one bit of notice to the general complaints made on the forum. A DD player can complain every single day that it isn't fair that they have the lowest survivability on average - guess what, it ain't going to change lol. WG may try to help them in some ways (like the rocket change) - but if you think they will ever be allowed to raise their survival average above the other current ship types.....no way!

Why, because even though it might be good to try and better their chances of survival in certain ways, they have advantages over the other ship types that in general balance the credits and XP earnings.

 

While you are right I think @Shomaruki should be given credit  where its due.  You keep referring to the other thread.  Give them room and consider this thread as a separate entity. Because in the OP of this thread their approach to the situation is a whole lot more measured and reasonable.  To the point where personally I read and could agree with their view on things.   Dragging the other thread into this one muddies the water by a lot. 

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17 minutes ago, Shomaruki said:

Again, yes the Kaga did well, but that was not from me using Rocket Play. At the end of the day it's going to to depend on the the player. I'm no where near an expert in this game, but that game was solely to show a DD player that rockets are not needed. It showed CV Rocket Dependent players that Rockets are not needed.  It wasn't me picking a side it was really to show both sides that you can do with or without them. 100k Damage that's usually what I attempt to aim for every match. But really that depends on my teammates. I tell my teammates "Hey this is how I going to use my planes, If you could all go to Point A and B and work your way to C." And I even throw my fighters over my own DDs just for the mere fact I need them to capture points. Most of my points come for actually double/triple teaming one enemy. Hell if I see a DD throw torps down I'll follow up and and throw torps into the area where I see a ship is going to dodge at so he would have no choice but to hit either me or the DD.  :/ But that's just my play style. 

*edit*

 

I forgot to screenshot -.- Think I did let me check)

I'm not sure a DD main would be arguing that CV rockets were needed(?) - but I believe I understand what you were trying to do, I just don't think the title or text used were really going to give people the impression you were aiming for a balanced view.

If you were, and you're trying to give insight into how some CVs were badly affected and need help, then I'm all for supporting that, I just find it hard if that balanced approach is wrapped up in throwing insults at other players. It wouldn't have endeared you to many. :Smile_honoring:

Edited by _WaveRider_

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1 minute ago, eviltane said:

While you are right I think @Shomaruki should be given credit  where its due.  You keep referring to the other thread.  Give them room and consider this thread as a separate entity. Because in the OP of this thread their approach to the situation is a whole lot more measured and reasonable.  To the point where personally I read and could agree with their view on things.   Dragging the other thread into this one muddies the water by a lot. 

I was midway through replying to my last conversation with @Shomaruki, but if you look at a previous post (#2), I've already stated I'm all for someone trying to give a balanced view and look at CVs that might need help:

44 minutes ago, _WaveRider_ said:

I have no problem in looking at changes to CVs that were badly affected by the rocket change.

My main issue with your other thread was that you tried to show a game with only one rocket hit as some kind of - OMG its so bad, change it back (sarcastic comment) - yet you scored over 100k. You proved you didn't need your rockets.

 

But again, if a CV has been badly affected, then I'm all for them being buffed in some manner.

However, to try and take this post on its own, after reading a number of other posts over the last week, that were hardly balanced and did look to insult other players who played DDs  - it is a little difficult to just say 'yeah, you've been toxic, sarcastic, insulting, but hey, this thread is ok lol.

But that is exactly what I did in post #2 and then #8. :Smile_honoring:

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3 minutes ago, _WaveRider_ said:

I was midway through replying to my last conversation with @Shomaruki, but if you look at a previous post (#2), I've already stated I'm all for someone trying to give a balanced view and look at CVs that might need help:

However, to try and take this post on its own, after reading a number of other posts over the last week, that were hardly balanced and did look to insult other players who played DDs  - it is a little difficult to just say 'yeah, you've been toxic, sarcastic, insulting, but hey, this thread is ok lol.

But that is exactly what I did in post #2 and then #8. :Smile_honoring:

Sure I get it. Especially the insult parts were the reason I didn't even read his material anyone until this specific post. 

Edited by eviltane
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