Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section.
Shomaruki

Wait a minute {Rocket and Spotting]

22 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Members
352 posts
726 battles

Yes 100th Post about rockets but something I just noticed.

When it comes to Torpedoes (You got a guy warning they are incoming and location with a warning buzzer). Instead of delaying the rockets, why not just have a guy go *Example* "Incoming Plane Attack from the right" I personally don't mind the machinegun animation playing While on the attack run the whole time. (Personally just think it looks cool even through it does zero damage). Hell I wouldn't even get mad if they could see the highlight area of where it would hit. When it comes to torpedoes in the waters we can see them on the map as well as little red triangles. Would make since  right?

 

If they want to make the whole spotting thing a rework, why not make it any ship damaged by a CV is marked for X amount of seconds on the map. Any ship that leads up and attacks that ship the spot is refreshed. Hell IF you wanted this could literally be a CV Captain Perk call it Tactician Marking. Make it to where no other ship captains can use this perk. By doing this, it forces the CVs to select key targets to help teammates to focus on thing. Otherwise they will have to focus on their own method of spotting on radar.  Once a CV does a recall it's up to the teammates to hit whatever that CV was shooting for the team to follow up or that target goes off the grid. (Unless it shoots within range of it's down detection) 

 

 

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
897
[PROJX]
Beta Testers
1,392 posts
5,593 battles

The whole point of the strafe isn't to show where the rockets will land, it's to add a delay to them hitting. They could've made the flight time of the rockets longer, but that would just look wrong

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,759
[S0L0]
[S0L0]
Alpha Tester, In AlfaTesters
5,271 posts
8,371 battles
7 minutes ago, PotatoMD said:

The whole point of the strafe isn't to show where the rockets will land, it's to add a delay to them hitting. They could've made the flight time of the rockets longer, but that would just look wrong

The whole point of the strafe was to exactly show you (the target)  where they ( the rockets )  are aimed....   They delay could have been added without having to screw around with coding the strafe  animation    If you think that isn't why it added that animation you are missing the point.     It was a two part change.. added the need to lead target and predict path for the CV player and  also added a warning indicator for the target to give them more tools to "just dodge" 

 

And In my opinion it really does look lame..   Would have much rather the just made the rockets slower and or fire from further away?   I doubt 1 out of 10 players in this game are aware enough in game to realize what the strafe splashes actually mean?    

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,107
[HC]
[HC]
Beta Testers
3,724 posts
13,410 battles
1 minute ago, PotatoMD said:

The whole point of the strafe isn't to show where the rockets will land, it's to add a delay to them hitting. They could've made the flight time of the rockets longer, but that would just look wrong

It's actually both. One to help the DD, one to make it harder for the CV to land hits.

The target gets to see where the area that the rockets will be hitting 5+ seconds from now, and if you're not going to be in the middle of it, you might be able to swing the offending part of your ship out of the way.

The 5+ second delay also means that  the CV must aim 5+ seconds ahead.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
352 posts
726 battles
10 minutes ago, SgtBeltfed said:

It's actually both. One to help the DD, one to make it harder for the CV to land hits.

The target gets to see where the area that the rockets will be hitting 5+ seconds from now, and if you're not going to be in the middle of it, you might be able to swing the offending part of your ship out of the way.

The 5+ second delay also means that  the CV must aim 5+ seconds ahead.

But correct me if I'm wrong, isn't what the whole flak and AA was for? The animation can't be cancelled, If the DD reduces speed, turns, speeds up, I can't make any new adjustments to my planes once they go into shooting. The shot is going to go exactly where I launched. Unlike my torps or bombers I can literally make last minute switches. Torps I just have to make sure to launch them far enough so they can arm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5,316
[SALVO]
Members
9,501 posts
6,975 battles

FFS just be patient... the strafe will do chip damage at some point or another. It's a Chekhov's gun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
897
[PROJX]
Beta Testers
1,392 posts
5,593 battles
30 minutes ago, iRA6E said:

The whole point of the strafe was to exactly show you (the target)  where they ( the rockets )  are aimed....

By the time the strafe shows exactly where the rockets will land its far too late to dodge. 

This change just makes it so the rockets take some semblance of skill to use. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,107
[HC]
[HC]
Beta Testers
3,724 posts
13,410 battles
22 minutes ago, Shomaruki said:

But correct me if I'm wrong, isn't what the whole flak and AA was for? The animation can't be cancelled, If the DD reduces speed, turns, speeds up, I can't make any new adjustments to my planes once they go into shooting. The shot is going to go exactly where I launched. Unlike my torps or bombers I can literally make last minute switches. Torps I just have to make sure to launch them far enough so they can arm.

Flak and AA keeps the CV from making multiple runs. Good AA or Multiple ships, the CV's only making a single run, so-so AA, the CV will make a couple passes, and no or craptastic AA means the CV will makes runs until he either runs out of ordnance, or gets bored. 

the strafing/delayed rockets telegraph exactly where your rockets are going to land, and adds a delay so the target can do something about it.

Without the cannon animation, the potential target has no idea where the rockets are going, there's no icon for "You're about to get shot by rockets so dodge!" because aircraft have no lock on target function, and if you were inside the aiming reticle when the rockets were launched, they were going to miss anyway. WG has done everything short of put "Hit A or D to dodge" in huge red letters across the screen.

The strafing/rocket delay was just a poorly though out double nerf to CV's to placate the whiney, skilless DD captains. Less skilled players using CV's will be meat for DD's, as they will be unable to defend themselves at all. Better CV captains will still hit the DD's with rockets, make better use of their own teams to deal with DD's (spotting) or move to using other weapons to deal with a DD (Like torpedoes).

This will run less skilled players away from CV's, and all it will leave the unicum players. The nerfs won't matter to them. I wonder what the real problem with the RTS CV's was?

  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
958 posts
220 battles
1 hour ago, Shomaruki said:

Yes 100th Post about rockets but something I just noticed.

When it comes to Torpedoes (You got a guy warning they are incoming and location with a warning buzzer). Instead of delaying the rockets, why not just have a guy go *Example* "Incoming Plane Attack from the right" I personally don't mind the machinegun animation playing While on the attack run the whole time. (Personally just think it looks cool even through it does zero damage). Hell I wouldn't even get mad if they could see the highlight area of where it would hit. When it comes to torpedoes in the waters we can see them on the map as well as little red triangles. Would make since  right?

 

If they want to make the whole spotting thing a rework, why not make it any ship damaged by a CV is marked for X amount of seconds on the map. Any ship that leads up and attacks that ship the spot is refreshed. Hell IF you wanted this could literally be a CV Captain Perk call it Tactician Marking. Make it to where no other ship captains can use this perk. By doing this, it forces the CVs to select key targets to help teammates to focus on thing. Otherwise they will have to focus on their own method of spotting on radar.  Once a CV does a recall it's up to the teammates to hit whatever that CV was shooting for the team to follow up or that target goes off the grid. (Unless it shoots within range of it's down detection) 

 

 

  1. Torpedos, do not show on the mini map
  2. Planes (all types) show on the mini map.  Needing a voice announce would be silly, as the flack starting is an audible indicator planes are near.
  3. Instead of a re-work, what not just remove player-controlled planes? e.g. No player-controlled boats in WOT, no player-controlled tanks in WOWP, why does WOWS get to be a special case? 

 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,107
[HC]
[HC]
Beta Testers
3,724 posts
13,410 battles
24 minutes ago, Laser_Beam said:
  1. Torpedos, do not show on the mini map
  2. Planes (all types) show on the mini map.  Needing a voice announce would be silly, as the flack starting is an audible indicator planes are near.
  3. Instead of a re-work, what not just remove player-controlled planes? e.g. No player-controlled boats in WOT, no player-controlled tanks in WOWP, why does WOWS get to be a special case? 

You've always had player controlled planes in WoWS, to add some level of skill into using them. Even under RTS, when making an autodrop, you could have (and should have) picked an attack direction.

Clicking on a ship and hitting a button to tell my ship to attack it with aircraft would be terribly boring.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
958 posts
220 battles
18 minutes ago, SgtBeltfed said:

You've always had player controlled planes in WoWS, to add some level of skill into using them. Even under RTS, when making an autodrop, you could have (and should have) picked an attack direction.

Clicking on a ship and hitting a button to tell my ship to attack it with aircraft would be terribly boring.

Apologies for not being clear. 

The RTS POV rather than FPS POV was a better fit as it left the focus that the CV was the player.  Now with FPS, it feels like the planes are the focus, and the CV is just a launch pad.

Not my fault if you get bored.

  • Cool 1
  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,107
[HC]
[HC]
Beta Testers
3,724 posts
13,410 battles
2 minutes ago, Laser_Beam said:

Apologies for not being clear. 

The RTS POV rather than FPS POV was a better fit as it left the focus that the CV was the player.  Now with FPS, it feels like the planes are the focus, and the CV is just a launch pad.

Not my fault if you get bored.

The planes were always the focus, just in RTS you really didn't see much, and you probably had aircraft in 3 different places. You also still had control of your planes in RTS, so you weren't getting bored.

Not player controlled is me targeting something, hitting a button, and my planes go do something.

It's not like there's any altitude control in either version.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,611
[BONKS]
Members
3,164 posts
52 battles
2 hours ago, iRA6E said:

Would have much rather the just made the rockets slower and or fire from further away?

Making rockets slower to achieve the same delay without also making planes fire from further away would require you to suspend your disbelief as the rockets would need to travel at speeds equal or even slower than ships.

Meanwhile making rockets fire from further away would quite literally make it impossible to engage DDs without external spotting if you want to get the same amount of delay we have now. As pre-patch FDR has shown, you would need distances of 3-4km which is well outside of the air detection of pretty much every DD.
In fact to accommodate the rocket change the attack distance has already been increased which is the change that at least from my perspective has proven the most troublesome to acclimatize to. It is now fairly difficult to engage the most stealthy DDs with rockets as their air detection is very close to the attack distance and becomes even more troublesome with render delay.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
958 posts
220 battles
4 minutes ago, SgtBeltfed said:

The planes were always the focus, just in RTS you really didn't see much, and you probably had aircraft in 3 different places. You also still had control of your planes in RTS, so you weren't getting bored.

Not player controlled is me targeting something, hitting a button, and my planes go do something.

It's not like there's any altitude control in either version.

RTS - CV gets suck - lost control of planes from that point

FPS - CV gets suck - carry on as normal until the timer expires, or the remaining planes get shot down.

 

Yip totally the same.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
279
[RNGOD]
Members
143 posts
5,216 battles

I'd like to see rocket planes converted to duel purpose fighters. Give them 20mm cannons for strafing ships, and 7mm machine guns for attacking enemy flights.

Either that, or allow CV's to choose their airwing prior to battle. For example, switch out rockets for extra TB's

Tiny tims, are okay though. Can't hit DD's, but they pack a punch against capital ships.

Edited by TacoBellDog
Typo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,734
[KIA-C]
Members
3,831 posts
17,012 battles
4 hours ago, Shomaruki said:

Instead of delaying the rockets, why not just have a guy go *Example* "Incoming Plane Attack from the right"

 

This will do nothing at all. There are people playing with their eyes open/monitor turned on and these players know exactly where the planes are. Plus CV rework showed us perfectly that even if you know where the planes are coming, it doesnt mean you can safely evade them. 

4 hours ago, Shomaruki said:

If they want to make the whole spotting thing a rework, why not make it any ship damaged by a CV is marked for X amount of seconds on the map. Any ship that leads up and attacks that ship the spot is refreshed. Hell IF you wanted this could literally be a CV Captain Perk call it Tactician Marking. Make it to where no other ship captains can use this perk. By doing this, it forces the CVs to select key targets to help teammates to focus on thing. Otherwise they will have to focus on their own method of spotting on radar.  Once a CV does a recall it's up to the teammates to hit whatever that CV was shooting for the team to follow up or that target goes off the grid. (Unless it shoots within range of it's down detection) 

 

CV spotting should be reduced to minimap only / delayed rendering. Only ship spotted by another surface ship / spotter planes and catapult fighter should have instant rendering.  If a CV wants to specialize in spotting, then the player should either invest point into that specific role or CV should deploy a controlable squadron that can only (and I do mean ONLY) provide spotting for the team. This way we can treat TB/rocket/DB as main guns and spotter squadron as well...spotter plane.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,107
[HC]
[HC]
Beta Testers
3,724 posts
13,410 battles
5 hours ago, Laser_Beam said:

RTS - CV gets suck - lost control of planes from that point

FPS - CV gets suck - carry on as normal until the timer expires, or the remaining planes get shot down.

 

Yip totally the same.

In RTS, if you sent your aircraft off with a target, they got to attack too.

There we some differences, but you still have control of your aircraft in both versions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
958 posts
220 battles
4 hours ago, SgtBeltfed said:

In RTS, if you sent your aircraft off with a target, they got to attack too.

There we some differences, but you still have control of your aircraft in both versions.

is there a point to this?  I think you're in agreeance with what I already said but ok.

So I'll repeat it back to you

Yes in RTS you could send your planes off to attack a target, but if/when the CV sunk, you lost control of the planes

Yes, in FPS mode you still have control of the planes after the CV is sunk (If planes were up, subject to a timer and can be shot down)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,934
[CVLUL]
Members
5,454 posts
12,580 battles
5 hours ago, SgtBeltfed said:

In RTS, if you sent your aircraft off with a target, they got to attack too.

There we some differences, but you still have control of your aircraft in both versions.

No. You literally lose control of the planes when you die in rts. They are little different than shells or torps you fire before you die. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,969 posts

The point to the delay is purely political and nothing more. DD's were whining. So Wargaming coddled them.

Destroyers were perfectly survivable before 10.5 and attacks were ridiculously easy to mitigate. Mostly by not taking predictable paths ( Which DD's never do. You can always find them in the same place, same time in the first few minutes of a match, making a dash to the cap).

They died due to poor decisions, map positioning, low IQ, and being 100% predictable. Not because CV's are overpowered.

You know what? When I didn't go directly to the cap in my DD? I lived the entire game. Go figure!

  • Boring 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5,316
[SALVO]
Members
9,501 posts
6,975 battles
2 hours ago, ElectroVeeDub said:

The point to the delay is purely political and nothing more. DD's were whining. So Wargaming coddled them.

Destroyers were perfectly survivable before 10.5 and attacks were ridiculously easy to mitigate. Mostly by not taking predictable paths ( Which DD's never do. You can always find them in the same place, same time in the first few minutes of a match, making a dash to the cap).

They died due to poor decisions, map positioning, low IQ, and being 100% predictable. Not because CV's are overpowered.

You know what? When I didn't go directly to the cap in my DD? I lived the entire game. Go figure!

Still waiting for some proof of your awesome DD play... :cap_old:

As long as those funny cap circles exist in the map, and as long as having control over them is linked to victory, you will need to fight for them... That's predictable. Unless you surrender them without fight and have a predictable defeat. 

  • Cool 1
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
352 posts
726 battles
2 hours ago, ArIskandir said:

Still waiting for some proof of your awesome DD play... :cap_old:

As long as those funny cap circles exist in the map, and as long as having control over them is linked to victory, you will need to fight for them... That's predictable. Unless you surrender them without fight and have a predictable defeat. 

Really? Cause most of game lost came from BBs never going near caps even after all our DDs and cruisers died, and my DD teammates normally are the first to go underwater due to speeding first to a point. Sad part is they don't die to DD they die to the other team gang bang.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×