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cwine

Different solution for BB / DD interaction

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Now that we have  Ise, Tone, and dutch cruisers that have airstrike capabilities, and seeing as they are just catapult-launched I was thinking of another consumable that wargaming could add to the fighter/spotter slot. Mobile spotter for BB's. You would be able to launch a spotter plane but maneuver it just like the aforementioned ships do but it's just a spotter with no weapons but can help the BB that has lost all eyes and is at the mercy of DD,s, and stealth cruisers. While you were controlling the plane your ship would be on autopilot just like the other ships but the one difference is that when you switch back to your ship the spotter plane is dropped at the last location as you take back control over your ship. I'm proposing this being a DD main that does not like playing BB's all that much because of the slow game pace. I have been in many a game where I have won because the BB"s were all that was left and it was just a matter of torping them or running out the timer to win the game and they had no way to counter it. I would not want the spotter plane to have the same duration time as the normal spotter plane maybe just stay on station for 10 seconds give or take a few seconds and only have so many charges so can't be spammed all game but just when you need it the worst. That would be something that would have to be tested and tweaked. Again as a DD main, this would suck for me making me work harder for the win in the scenario I just described but I have always been one of those guys that look at an argument from both sides. Since the mechanic for this is already in the game now I don't think it would be hard to implement it and would help make the game more enjoyable for players that love playing BB's but get frustrated when you can't influence the outcome of a game because your blind.

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1 minute ago, Prothall said:

The one thing this game does not need now is one more consumable.

Actually, I kinda disagree, there is ONE consumable that should probably be in this game, and it's actually from WoWs Legends: the Enhanced Secondary Targeting consumable. This consumable will give you great secondaries dispersion and shell grouping for a short time (like, 30s only, which isn't super long). AND, it replaces your spotter/fighter, so it's not just an added consumable. You lose one thing to get the other. It's pretty fair, and can give ships something interesting to use in brawling builds! 

That said, if this consumable ever does make it into WoWs, I think it should be more along the lines of the Big Hunt consumable version I've seen before (I think it was on the ship Avenger, one of its custom modules?): That is, more secondary range and secondary reload speed for a short time, not necessarily improved dispersion (since Wargaming is pretty antsy about anything called secondaries accuracy, it seems). But it COULD be interesting! More tools = more options.

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I agree the German Battleships at least should get it.. Ontop of everything else already in the game. They were supposed to be the secondary kings, but now they're just HP pinatas at best, that might be able to do some damage back.

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2 minutes ago, Lady_Athena said:

I agree the German Battleships at least should get it.. Ontop of everything else already in the game. They were supposed to be the secondary kings, but now they're just HP pinatas at best, that might be able to do some damage back.

I actually say that ALL battleships should get this secondaries consumable, as it does add more options for people who want to do secondaries build not just on German BBs. Of course, since German BBs are supposed to be the optimal secondaries battleships, they SHOULD still utilize the consumable better than on other ships anyways...so that's fine.

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3 minutes ago, SaiIor_Moon said:

I actually say that ALL battleships should get this secondaries consumable, as it does add more options for people who want to do secondaries build not just on German BBs. Of course, since German BBs are supposed to be the optimal secondaries battleships, they SHOULD still utilize the consumable better than on other ships anyways...so that's fine.

I am looking forward to seeing the new secondary change in action and hope it will be as good as - or even a 'little' better than before. But only a little better - if I build a secondary BB to provide closer support to my screen, then I want them to be effective - but I don't want to start feeling that I don't have to worry about those pesky DDs.

I would just like to find that sweet spot where I have to think and play smart to still outplay a DD  and have my secondaries kill it - because of my secondary build. However, not easily kill it - because of my secondary build.

I know you certainly aren't campaigning for the easy DD kill I am talking about, but I would worry that the consumable you talk of will negate the need to think/worry about them. :Smile_honoring:

 

(Of course, the sweet spot I talk of is different for everyone).

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16 minutes ago, _WaveRider_ said:

I am looking forward to seeing the new secondary change in action and hope it will be as good as - or even a 'little' better than before. But only a little better - if I build a secondary BB to provide closer support to my screen, then I want them to be effective - but I don't want to start feeling that I don't have to worry about those pesky DDs.

I would just like to find that sweet spot where I have to think and play smart to still outplay a DD  and have my secondaries kill it - because of my secondary build. However, not easily kill it - because of my secondary build.

I know you certainly aren't campaigning for the easy DD kill I am talking about, but I would worry that the consumable you talk of will negate the need to think/worry about them.

All this in bold, exactly.

I want my secondaries to THREATEN DDs, not outright delete them lols (and this is of course, assuming a FULL secondaries build)! Now as for the secondaries consumable concept in question, I do not think it'll negate the need to think/worry about DDs, absolutely not. The consumable I'm thinking would work in WoWs PC is NOT the exact same one in WoWs Legends, because the one *I* think should be in WoWs PC is the "Big Hunt" variant we've seen on ships like Avenger (namely, the one that buffs secondary range and secondary reload for a short time), although probably a weaker version of that, obviously. This will NOT buff secondaries accuracy though, which means that, while DDs will need to be more careful while this consumable is active, just like on Hannover when her secondaries boost is active, they are STILL a very real threat to said BB, just like DDs were against Hannover.

And remember, this will replace your spotting plane/fighter, so it's give and take. It's not JUST an added consumable, you have to lose something else to use it.

But yes, ultimately, this consumable may or may not be needed, depending on how well the testing goes for the new secondaries skill changes (I'm STILL worried about that ramp-up time though, it's VERY long). That said, a secondaries consumable is definitely still an interesting idea that could add more options.

 

 

Edited by SaiIor_Moon
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7 hours ago, SaiIor_Moon said:

All this in bold, exactly.

I want my secondaries to THREATEN DDs, not outright delete them lols (and this is of course, assuming a FULL secondaries build)! Now as for the secondaries consumable concept in question, I do not think it'll negate the need to think/worry about DDs, absolutely not. The consumable I'm thinking would work in WoWs PC is NOT the exact same one in WoWs Legends, because the one *I* think should be in WoWs PC is the "Big Hunt" variant we've seen on ships like Avenger (namely, the one that buffs secondary range and secondary reload for a short time), although probably a weaker version of that, obviously. This will NOT buff secondaries accuracy though, which means that, while DDs will need to be more careful while this consumable is active, just like on Hannover when her secondaries boost is active, they are STILL a very real threat to said BB, just like DDs were against Hannover.

And remember, this will replace your spotting plane/fighter, so it's give and take. It's not JUST an added consumable, you have to lose something else to use it.

But yes, ultimately, this consumable may or may not be needed, depending on how well the testing goes for the new secondaries skill changes (I'm STILL worried about that ramp-up time though, it's VERY long). That said, a secondaries consumable is definitely still an interesting idea that could add more options.

 

 

It is a great possibility and I do like the scope and flexibility it could give WG to assist in the balancing of the game (another mechanic to assist with small - not sledgehammer changes).

I think my worry actually comes down to WG itself. I just do not have faith in their ability to introduce something that has the chance to mess with the game in an important area.

I  guess that worry shouldn't prevent thinking of the possible, but then I keep thinking it is WG who will implement it. :Smile_honoring:

(Note: I don't play any other WG games like  Legends - so am not coming from the angle of experience of the consumables in that game. Just from my experience in this one).

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46 minutes ago, _WaveRider_ said:

It is a great possibility and I do like the scope and flexibility it could give WG to assist in the balancing of the game (another mechanic to assist with small - not sledgehammer changes).

I think my worry actually comes down to WG itself. I just do not have faith in their ability to introduce something that has the chance to mess with the game in an important area.

I  guess that worry shouldn't prevent thinking of the possible, but then I keep thinking it is WG who will implement it. :Smile_honoring:

(Note: I don't play any other WG games like  Legends - so am not coming from the angle of experience of the consumables in that game. Just from my experience in this one).

Yeah, I DEFINITELY share your concerns as to whether Wargaming will pull off a SUCCESSFUL secondaries rework. Their track record for reworks is....well, it's not exactly stellar (CV rework, Captain Skills Rework, AA rework, etc.).  But at any rate, I am definitely happy that Wargaming chose to address the blatant secondaries accuracy issues! Only time (and testing) will tell if the rework is successful though (I'm still quite concerned about the LONG ramp-up time for the new adjustment firing-style mechanic for ISBA...). That said, I really do think a secondaries consumable that simply buffs secondary range and secondary reload is more up WG's alley than a consumable affecting secondaries accuracy. They're just really....antsy about TOO much accuracy for some reason. Not like that was ever really a problem (save for maybe the three apparently  "overperforming" USN secondaries ships Massachusetts, Georgia, Ohio)...

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18 hours ago, cwine said:

Now that we have  Ise, Tone, and dutch cruisers that have airstrike capabilities, and seeing as they are just catapult-launched I was thinking of another consumable that wargaming could add to the fighter/spotter slot. Mobile spotter for BB's. You would be able to launch a spotter plane but maneuver it just like the aforementioned ships do but it's just a spotter with no weapons but can help the BB that has lost all eyes and is at the mercy of DD,s, and stealth cruisers. While you were controlling the plane your ship would be on autopilot just like the other ships but the one difference is that when you switch back to your ship the spotter plane is dropped at the last location as you take back control over your ship. I'm proposing this being a DD main that does not like playing BB's all that much because of the slow game pace. I have been in many a game where I have won because the BB"s were all that was left and it was just a matter of torping them or running out the timer to win the game and they had no way to counter it. I would not want the spotter plane to have the same duration time as the normal spotter plane maybe just stay on station for 10 seconds give or take a few seconds and only have so many charges so can't be spammed all game but just when you need it the worst. That would be something that would have to be tested and tweaked. Again as a DD main, this would suck for me making me work harder for the win in the scenario I just described but I have always been one of those guys that look at an argument from both sides. Since the mechanic for this is already in the game now I don't think it would be hard to implement it and would help make the game more enjoyable for players that love playing BB's but get frustrated when you can't influence the outcome of a game because your blind.

 

So let me get this straight.  You think it would be a good idea to give BBs yet -another- way to spot DDs and remove their only real defense?  

 

DDs already face a gauntlet of ways in which they are spotted, from radar to hydro, to controllable planes from BBs and CVs to the spotter planes that BBs and CAs have.   And, a DD that loses its concealment dies very quickly.

 

BBs have the second longest ranged weapons in the game, and the ones that do the most damage.  They have the most HPs and the best ability to regain those HPs when they are reduced.  They can achieve speeds greater than some DDs, and they can mitigate the greatest amount of damage due to their armor.  

 

Based on the above, there is no reason to add a consumable whose only purpose is to remove the only real weakness a BB faces from the very type of ship that is supposed to control them.  Doing so does not serve the game well, and does not improve the gameplay skill requirements of playing a type of ship that is already the easiest in the game to play.  

 

My advice to any BB driver who finds themselves alone against a DD is to return to friendly forces that can screen them, don't let those screening units die while pursuing your own gameplay, and accept that there are going to be situations where your type of ship isn't advantaged and should not be put into by your actions.  If you do so, you must accept the consequences, as any other player playing any other ship type must.

Edited by Jakob_Knight
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