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LunchCutter

Has anyone escaped the Bronze league in ranked?

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I've been trying for the last 7 days, I cannot get out of the lowest league, it became so frustrating that I've given up, twice I was 1 win from escaping but some kind of RNG evil programming seems to throw together that most god awful team possible while stuffing the red team full of unicums.. Even the last time I was 1 win away I thought to myself 'get ready to laugh at the comical roflstomp' and my team delivered... 6 straight losses always seem to follow. Even the last game when I was 1 on 1 with a New Mexico who has 1500 health left and I'm in my full health Myoko, he fires a salvo at me and deletes me in 1 hit... My NM cannot hit a barn door at point blank range most of the time. Always the same results, win 2 lose 2, repeat x10:( 

 Just feels completely programmed to fail, like Casino poker machines, give a little at the start then suck you in to stop you winning. 

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Yes, just ranked out in silver again.

Bronze is a bit special, it gets harder and harder the longer the season goes on as most competitively oriented players are either in silver or gold at that point, leaving either the casuals, literal noobs (meaning people who are brand new to the game) and absolute potatoes down there, plus the occasional unicum who couldn't really be bothered with ranked anymore. So, the MM pool is very inhomogeneous and MM RNG can be harsh. However, with all the irrevocable ranks and enough battles you should be able to do it, as long as your WR is above 50%.

Ranked is not like other grinds where there is steady progress, it is often more like 3 steps ahead, 2 steps back, 2 ahead and 2 backs, 3 ahead one back... As long as you go more forwards than backwards it is ok. Also, ranked is an excellent opportunity for learning how to carry games and save a star. Personally I prefer DDs or some CAs for that, but I had some success in BBs as well. But you gotta find a ship you click well with.

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The key to ranking out of Bronze is to do so in the first or second sprint (yes cold advice now, but this season is almost finished).

Next is to play DD's, they are by far the most impactful and carrying class and there are a number of little monsters at those tiers such as the Farragut, Gadjah Madah, Jervis and more.

Finally if you hate DD's and dont have removed from sale premiums like the Payfast / T61 / etc... there's always the SinOP and Fiji which are the best BB and TT CA in Bronze.

As for beating qualifiers... just spam games I often go on 10+ game losing streaks no matter what I try... but then the MM magically turns and you're on the team with three Alaskas, a Mushy, and a Black and Benham while the red team consists of a Minnesota, a Kansas, a stock naked flagless Ibuki who thinks ranked is perfect for stock grinding, a Roon that'll save his star, a smoke Neptune who will yolo charge, get spotted turn broadside while trying to smoke and die 3 minutes in, a Z-44 who won't land a single torp the entire game and a smoke Chung Mu who will charge through the Neptune's smoke and die trying to torp the Black... and then you'll get that team 4 more times while facing that same red team with a few substitutions such as a St. Louis instead of the Roon...

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Actually the whole game has become like that you win 12 out of 15 over 2 days then lose 12 out of 15 the next 2 days it’s become very frustrating and predictable . I really don’t know what’s going on been like this a while . I can play the same ships the same way and one day I win 65% of my games next day I win 25% . To a certain extent I am beginning to think that unless your a very very  good player it doesn’t matter what you do the MM decides whether you win or not .

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1 hour ago, LunchCutter said:

Just feels completely programmed to fail, like Casino poker machines,

Casino poker machines are regulated by the state (unless you're on Tribal Land)
to be an honest game. 
Video games are completely unregulated, and are rigged 17 ways from Sunday.
Check out 'Dynamic Hit Boxes'. That's a cute one.
Or maybe EOMM: Engagement Optimized Matchmaking.

Here's an oldie but a goodie:

 

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I don't even try ranking out of bronze after finding out you have to win more games after reaching rank 1 just to get into silver. Too much trouble. Haven't even tried making it to rank 1 after the first time. I just get the wins to get the steel and wait for the next reset.

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I stop playing after I reach rank 1 to stay in Bronze. I have 2 accounts now waiting for it to reset.

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3 hours ago, LunchCutter said:

I've been trying for the last 7 days, I cannot get out of the lowest league, it became so frustrating that I've given up, twice I was 1 win from escaping but some kind of RNG evil programming seems to throw together that most god awful team possible while stuffing the red team full of unicums.. Even the last time I was 1 win away I thought to myself 'get ready to laugh at the comical roflstomp' and my team delivered... 6 straight losses always seem to follow. Even the last game when I was 1 on 1 with a New Mexico who has 1500 health left and I'm in my full health Myoko, he fires a salvo at me and deletes me in 1 hit... My NM cannot hit a barn door at point blank range most of the time. Always the same results, win 2 lose 2, repeat x10:( 

 Just feels completely programmed to fail, like Casino poker machines, give a little at the start then suck you in to stop you winning. 

I stopped trying to do qualifiers after the second sprint exactly because of similar experiences, where I was one match away from Silver before getting hit by a losing streak.

I realized that the amount of time I was wasting in getting the 5 stars to qualify was more than I actually spent ranking out in Bronze (an entire week in qualifier as opposed to 4 days to rank out), and the only thing Silver offered was 200 more steel per sprint and 200 more dubs. And ranking out in Silver is harder.

So I decided to stay in Bronze. As others have mentioned it might get harder and harder to qualify out of Bronze as the season progresses but it also becomes easier to rank out each sprint because with the kind of players left in Bronze it becomes easier to influence matches even if you're just average. Last sprint I ranked out just playing 2 Sundays.

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Took 10 games to get three wins for my last bit of steel. Playing SinOP. In ranked I've averaged 68-72% Winrate for the past few runs of ranked. Tonight was a hellscape. 0/10 would not recommend. I did not have fun.

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1 hour ago, Colonel_Potter said:

I don't even try ranking out of bronze after finding out you have to win more games after reaching rank 1 just to get into silver. Too much trouble. Haven't even tried making it to rank 1 after the first time. I just get the wins to get the steel and wait for the next reset.

Me too......  I don't even seriously try anymore: just play and if I win, great............if I lose, who the heck cares....  Our host doesn't so why should I.

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I do look at Random Battles, and it's interesting, I would guess I see on the post-battle screen about 65% of players with Bronze ranks, 15% with Silver ranks, 15% with no rank at all, and 5% or fewer with Gold ranks. That's a generous estimate, probably more with Bronze or no rank at all than that. I stay in Silver and usually rank out in the first three to five days. Getting out of Bronze is usually not too hard, but like another poster mentioned, the later in the season it gets, the harder it gets to do. The leagues get more indicative of skill level after the third sprint, when everyone who is good enough or tryhard enough has settled into Gold or Silver League.

That'll change some this next season, if I recall correctly, as people will be able to play in the next league during the same sprint after ranking out. 

My win rate will probably take a hit this next season. This one I have I think a 67% w/r across the season, but the Tier VIII/IX is very favorable matchmaking for my preferred ship. I have something like 600 battles in Friesland in Randoms with a 56% w/r and more than 120 battles in Ranked with a 69% w/r. I play her well in Ranked because I'm guaranteed top Tier and because Friesland simply doesn't care about any Tier VIII CVs except unicum ones.

But next season is straight Tier VIII, and that brings out the Enterprise players, and the surface ships won't have the advantage of being able to play the odd tier higher. I am a DD main for Ranked, and while there are some good Tier VIII destroyers, none of them are as safe as Friesland. Maybe I'll do Oland.

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I am somewhat of a Ranked specialist, around 75% of my play time is devoted to Ranked (as it gives the best time/reward rate of any game mode). Whichever League has T8, you'll find me there (at least for the next months until T8 gets finished). Ranked is still the best mode to showcase solo skill in the game, if you are skilled enough you'll be able to carry games consistently, save your star consistently and progress consistently. As painful as it is to accept, if you can't progress consistently in Ranked it is only because your performance is just average, just as good as most other guys in your League. So you become stuck with the herd because you are part of the herd, this is Ranked working as intended but some players try to rationalize it in whatever way they can to avoid facing the cold hard fact.

As for Ranking easier early in the season... That's only true if you are getting carried. If you carry, it is actually harder with the more disparate skill distribution of the early sprints, competition is stiffer. Late sprints are usually easier to rank out, if you are able to carry.

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8 hours ago, shinytrashcan said:

Ranked is not like other grinds where there is steady progress

This isn't  directed at you in particular but There seem to be a bunch of people here who think that ranked is or should be comparable to a grind. 

 

It should be seen as nothing of the sort. Ranked should reflect your ability to influence matches your ability to carry. One of the single most disturbing things about the way WoWs ranked works is that it actually DOES reward guys who throw thousands of games at it.   This is where @Crucis  suggestion  of limiting the number of ranked games you can play actually is a good one.    Why in the world are there soo many terrible potatoes  allowed to be in GOLD?

 

ELO would be another faaaar better system then what we have now for ranked.    I recently started playing  Age of Empires II  definite edition. That ranked system is AMAZING. After about 15-20 matches the game has your skill  level figured out. After that the game always finds someone to play that is close to your skill level. Doesn't matter if your terrible or great the game manages to find matches which are almost always matched relatively equally.    

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I just ranked out in silver not too long ago.   I found that sticking with DDs are the best option if you can either effectively hold or push a flank.   Playing BBs or cruisers got frustrating as you watched friendly DDs go into known radar zones or sit in smoke and get torped.  

I loved using the Benham or Fletcher, but did not fare well against late game Hydro boats if we needed to get a cap.   That's why the T61 is a favorite choice in Bronze.   Then you have the z boats a bit higher than that.   

Still debating if I should go for gold.

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8 hours ago, Asym_KS said:

Me too......  I don't even seriously try anymore: just play and if I win, great............if I lose, who the heck cares....  Our host doesn't so why should I.

As long as half the players in a match win, and half lose, why would WG care which is which?

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5 hours ago, eviltane said:

This isn't  directed at you in particular but There seem to be a bunch of people here who think that ranked is or should be comparable to a grind.

It should be seen as nothing of the sort. Ranked should reflect your ability to influence matches your ability to carry. One of the single most disturbing things about the way WoWs ranked works is that it actually DOES reward guys who throw thousands of games at it.   This is where @Crucis  suggestion  of limiting the number of ranked games you can play actually is a good one.    Why in the world are there soo many terrible potatoes  allowed to be in GOLD?

It's not just a grind, it's bad-player welfare. That's why WG won't change it. They get carried up to ranks they wouldn't otherwise achieve with this system, and a lot of them are so un-self-aware they'll think they had a big hand in it and have more fun due to that perception.

For us it is disturbing or pathetic or whatever you wanna call it. For WG it's increased customer satisfaction, cause remember where a lot of the playerbase trends in terms of performance.

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8 minutes ago, Delicious_Flat_Chest said:

OP rank is zero to do with your skill and 100 percent to do with your who you get paired with. If you are playing your best of your bests and your losses are there, then it's your team plain and simple.

Or maybe playing your best is just not good enough... 

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18 minutes ago, MnemonScarlet said:

It's not just a grind, it's bad-player welfare. That's why WG won't change it. They get carried up to ranks they wouldn't otherwise achieve with this system, and a lot of them are so un-self-aware they'll think they had a big hand in it and have more fun due to that perception.

For us it is disturbing or pathetic or whatever you wanna call it. For WG it's increased customer satisfaction, cause remember where a lot of the playerbase trends in terms of performance.

I'd go as far as to say that WG knows this to be true of the types of players they attract, and the system is there to on purposely cater to said poor players.  WG isn't interested in making the mode more competitive, they're interested in letting poor players enjoy themselves at the expense of anybody remotely talented at the game.

That's the entire rhetoric for every decision.  Because in WG's eyes, those bad players should be babied and never made to feel bad for any reason, because bad players are easy to manipulate and extract money from.  They want those poor, dumb players.  People who know better are probably public enemy number one in WG's eyes.

Look at how they handle PR, the way they balance things like CV, and their attitude towards players who even nicely correct others.  They're labled as "toxic".  Toxic in this sad playerbase is = anything that makes me feel bad.

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14 hours ago, LunchCutter said:

I've been trying for the last 7 days, I cannot get out of the lowest league, it became so frustrating that I've given up, twice I was 1 win from escaping but some kind of RNG evil programming seems to throw together that most god awful team possible while stuffing the red team full of unicums.. Even the last time I was 1 win away I thought to myself 'get ready to laugh at the comical roflstomp' and my team delivered... 6 straight losses always seem to follow. Even the last game when I was 1 on 1 with a New Mexico who has 1500 health left and I'm in my full health Myoko, he fires a salvo at me and deletes me in 1 hit... My NM cannot hit a barn door at point blank range most of the time. Always the same results, win 2 lose 2, repeat x10:( 

 Just feels completely programmed to fail, like Casino poker machines, give a little at the start then suck you in to stop you winning. 

Try posting a few replays of your games.  You're the common denominator in every game you play, so maybe folks can find a few things to be improved on that can help you move up.

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6 hours ago, ArIskandir said:

I am somewhat of a Ranked specialist, around 75% of my play time is devoted to Ranked (as it gives the best time/reward rate of any game mode). Whichever League has T8, you'll find me there (at least for the next months until T8 gets finished). Ranked is still the best mode to showcase solo skill in the game, if you are skilled enough you'll be able to carry games consistently, save your star consistently and progress consistently. As painful as it is to accept, if you can't progress consistently in Ranked it is only because your performance is just average, just as good as most other guys in your League. So you become stuck with the herd because you are part of the herd, this is Ranked working as intended but some players try to rationalize it in whatever way they can to avoid facing the cold hard fact.

As for Ranking easier early in the season... That's only true if you are getting carried. If you carry, it is actually harder with the more disparate skill distribution of the early sprints, competition is stiffer. Late sprints are usually easier to rank out, if you are able to carry.

One of the big improvements in the new system is that now there's three pools of players, and you can pick which pool you want to play in. I could rank out in Gold, but it'd be way more hassle than I have in Silver for only marginally more rewards, but I can also avoid playing with the people who can't get out of Bronze.

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1 minute ago, RainbowFartingUnicorn said:

One of the big improvements in the new system is that now there's three pools of players, and you can pick which pool you want to play in. I could rank out in Gold, but it'd be way more hassle than I have in Silver for only marginally more rewards, but I can also avoid playing with the people who can't get out of Bronze.

I like the Leagues system a lot too, it allows a lot of variety in terms of tier spreads. Having experienced Ranked for a while, I don't see a meaningful practical difference in terms of player quality between the Leagues, I understand them as related to player dedication, not player quality. That's why usually Bronze has a pretty chill and relaxed mood, people is rarely salty and are there just for easy farming and/or just enjoying the game. The higher the league usually the more "serious" people become about the game (amazingly it doesn't really translates into play quality), peaking at Gold League failhard saltlords.

Imo, Leagues end up being more "social clubs" characterized by a certain mood and dedication to the game than a proper league structure with a clear leap in player quality between the different echelons. I'm fairly sure that's precisely the design intention for the mode, it is more about player "self-perception" than actual player quality.

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42 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

Or maybe playing your best is just not good enough... 

Yeah I believe that until I saw sub 40 wr players ranking out.  Havent played any different from last season where i went over 60 so shrug..

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6 hours ago, eviltane said:

This isn't  directed at you in particular but There seem to be a bunch of people here who think that ranked is or should be comparable to a grind. 

 

It should be seen as nothing of the sort. Ranked should reflect your ability to influence matches your ability to carry. One of the single most disturbing things about the way WoWs ranked works is that it actually DOES reward guys who throw thousands of games at it.   This is where @Crucis  suggestion  of limiting the number of ranked games you can play actually is a good one.    Why in the world are there soo many terrible potatoes  allowed to be in GOLD?

You are not wrong, the unfortunate reality though is that a large fraction of the playerbase is not interested in a competitive mode as you would find in other games, but very much in the rewards of such a mode. Most other modes in this game, except CB, are designed around what I would call the grind concept: Do the same thing over and over again, spend a lot of time with the product and eventually you'll be rewarded. If you do not like that, you can skip part of it with small to large purchases.

If you think in these terms, a true ranked ladder mode is a terrible experience as progress is not guaranteed and you can't buy yourself to the top. WG must know this, and as such they try to find the balance between satisfying the "competitive minded players" and the "grind oriented players" (speaking in stereotypes here).

One thing to keep in mind is, who are the whales in this game and what are they motivated by. There is little P2W in this game in the traditional sense (no real gold ammo, better versions of stuff etc.) and most of the monetization focuses on in-game economy like XP boosters, freeXP conversion, premium time, ships (arguably the most p2w aspect currently) etc. So realistically, how do you fit a game mode that is about personal development of skill etc. into a monetization scheme that is based on grind progressions? You need it, because a significant portion of your playersbase wants it, and you need players for your game. But the big spenders likely won't put big money in it.

So I definitely get the sentiment and I agree that ranked could be very much improved and more competitive etc., but acknowledging the reality of the game mode and the playerbase helped me to find more enjoyment in the mode again. Hope that makes somewhat sense.

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2 minutes ago, Delicious_Flat_Chest said:

Yeah I believe that until I saw sub 40 wr players ranking out. 

As anything in this game, it is about consistency. Of course we all lose matches, but the better your performance the more matches you'll win and the most stars you'll keep when you lose, there's no doubt you know about this. The system is open for terrible players being able to rank out if they throw enough matches to ride some lucky streaks, but as an able player you'll Rank out faster (fewer games), no doubt about it. 

7 minutes ago, Delicious_Flat_Chest said:

Havent played any different from last season where i went over 60 so shrug..

If you are achieving different results from previous season, maybe the environment you are playing changed, maybe you are playing a different League or a different tier/meta. Maybe the League composition changed. 

As example, I played Akizuki to amazing effect in the pure T8 season. On T8-9 seasons, Akizuki performance degrades dramatically, it no longer is the undisputed bully it was for a pure T8 comp. 

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