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Ducky_shot

Were achievement rewards removed to prevent people from farming detonation flags??

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Regardless of the reason... The end result was achieved...

I would refer to Hapa's response in the chat for further context.

Edited by Navalpride33

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If true, it’s too bad they didn’t punish the people that do it instead of ruining achievements, jeeze WG.

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I doubt it. It would be easier to just remove the flags for detonation, or switch them so that you receive flags when you detonate someone else, rather than remove all rewards for all achievements. 

 

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The idea that people are farming det flags sounds way beyond what is believable to me.  Detonations are rare so I'd imagine you'd need to throw your ship away in hundreds of games to farm even a small number of det flags.  You'd probably lose a crap ton of credits.  At that point it would likely be cheaper to play normally and buy the flags.

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The fact that this guy blame the detonation reward instead of the detonation mecanic is just beyond me. But at this point it is not even surprising coming from WG, the company that says "We are nerfing cap because DD are always fighting for cap instead of spotting for the team", WG the company that says "CV spotting is fine" and then introduces cyclone into CB to reduces spotting from CV.

 

I love how the clip ends with him saying "play to your maximum" when people are no longer encouraged to do that. Why would I try to go for a kraken if all I get at the end is nothing but just a small badge?

Edited by AlcatrazNC
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The idea that people were grinding detonation flags is just silly. The question is, "To what end?" You want to stock pile signal flags, that will stop you from getting them when you use them?

I've ended up with a near lifetime supply of detonation flags from super containers. Same with ramming flags. (Has something about super containers not feeling so super really)

I'd bet it's more along the lines of WG figured out it's too easy to grind up the tiers, and WG makes money while people are grinding up the tech tree. So, cut back on signals, people will make less XP/credits per match and reduce players in match performance (as they have less bonuses) so they make less XP/Credits as well.

The longer grind times will also make content last longer, which might be a good thing. (Gives WG more time to produce content, and maybe they'll be able to come up with something better than dumping a bunch of gimmicks into a ship line.)

One nice possible side effect is maybe, just maybe, we'll get better players at higher tiers, as they'll have more games under their belts before they get there. That's probably wishful thinking though.

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There are two issues with that reasoning. The first is is that there is already a system in place to prevent farming, you only got the flags once in a 24 hr period. Now I disagree with this policy, but it absolutely prevents farming flags (which wasn't even going to be a problem anyway because of how rare and random detonations are). So yeah, farming is a non-issue on multiple levels.

The second is that even if it was a problem is ONLY a problem for detonation flags, all the others you have actually have to play well. So if the die for detonation thing was an issue you only need to fix one of the achievement awards, not the whole system. If people want to farm Confederate awards that's just fine with me:Smile_teethhappy:

Another issue is that even if you were having people farm achievements for flags (which, as I said, isn't really possible) it's going to be far more efficient to load up a premium ship, make a couple million credits and just buy the signals you want in the armory. They said something about people farming them for competitive modes, the people who are that into competitive are going to have the ability to make enough credits to just buy them outright.

 

So yeah, I really don't see how that reasoning makes any sense. I'm sure WG had their reasons for removing flags, I'd be real surprised if "players farming achievements" was one of them.

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It's real simple, remove the detonation mechanic.

How about that @Mademoisail?

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My guess is too many people were selling them back for credits,so wargaming nerfed them all

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1 hour ago, AJTP89 said:

So yeah, I really don't see how that reasoning makes any sense. I'm sure WG had their reasons for removing flags, I'd be real surprised if "players farming achievements" was one of them.

There was apparently some of it at low tiers, esp vs bots at low population times in PvP. If WG wanted to be even-handed they could've just restricted t4 and under from earning flags via achievements, tbh.

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2 hours ago, Ducky_shot said:

Hello everyone, just to clarify, that clip was conveniently clipped after I had clearly stated that I will not answer the question of why the change was made. To make conversation, and to name examples of different reasons that something can be changed I gave that story along with other examples. Sorry if that caused any confusion, I will make sure to give examples not related to the question at hand in the future to avoid confusion or misinterpretation. For anything that we do share information please reference the devblogs and patch notes, if there is any information about changes that we can share those are usually the places to look for them.

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I find it very hard to believe that WG would take away all achievement flags just because a few people might farm Detonation flags.  Really, this was about WG's greed.

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6 minutes ago, Captain_Rawhide said:

I find it very hard to believe that WG would take away all achievement flags just because a few people might farm Detonation flags.  Really, this was about WG's greed.

Correct, like I mentioned it was an example of things to consider, but as I mentioned right before that clip starts I was not answering the question. I wanted to make sure to follow-up about the question, unfortunately, I had to be out of the stream to be able to look for the information for the community.

We updated the Achievement's section interface in 0.10.4. In this connection we removed the rewards that were previously issued for earning achievements.

Earlier, there were a few signal delivery methods, we used achievements section as one of them. Today there are many ways to obtain signals - in Armory, bundles, containers and combat missions, so we don't want to overload Achievement's section interface.

We're introducing you weekly chains of combat missions. You should earn Base XP in victorious battles in Operations, Brawls, Ranked, Random and even Co-op battle types. That also will help co-op players get rewards, which previously weren't available for them. The difficulty of completing the task depends on the type of battle. For example, you can be a frequent winner in Co-op Battles, but receive less XP per battle, or you can quickly obtain the rewards by earning more XP per battle in a smaller number of victorious Random or Ranked Battles.

The available rewards include More Signals containers and Gift containers. On average, you should receive the same number of signals as before.

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One time I was playing my Bismarck and detonated 2 people (Yugumo and Lightning)

Sabaton is overpowered:cap_viking:

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I'm famous.

My response to the removal of flags for achievements

image.png.65b455f7e6e557d7aebf23115607b66f.png

 

My response to changes to bot AI

image.png.2f6f68c24ee09e8a490dfa7a474a60a5.png
 

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Farming det flags? Please, it was much easier to farm Close Quarters Expert, Confederate or Witherer achievements for their respective flags. I know cos I use to do it.

We all know why this change was made, for $$$$$$. 

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1 hour ago, Maredraco said:

Hello everyone, just to clarify, that clip was conveniently clipped after I had clearly stated that I will not answer the question of why the change was made. To make conversation, and to name examples of different reasons that something can be changed I gave that story along with other examples. Sorry if that caused any confusion, I will make sure to give examples not related to the question at hand in the future to avoid confusion or misinterpretation. For anything that we do share information please reference the devblogs and patch notes, if there is any information about changes that we can share those are usually the places to look for them.

Just proves that people can further their own agenda by not posting the complete story.  The person that made that clip has had beef with WG in the past, so it's understandable why the clip was cut and presented in the way it was. As they say, there's always two sides to a story, then there's the truth. 

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If you could just let me buy flags automatically with credits when I run out, like you can with some doubloon flags....I really wouldn't mind.  Having to jump through 10 hoops to get flags is inconvenient.  "Oh I need this flag"...5 steps later, have that flag.  "Oh, I need this one too".  5 steps later, have that one.  etc etc

I think they could up the amount of signals given also.

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While I have to admit that the clip linked above is quite misleading, watching the whole VOD I have to say it was not very convincing.

Yes, there is a whole lot of reasons why the devs or management would change the mechanics. However, you (speaking to WG as a company here) don't do yourselfs a favor by not commenting on them and coming up with examples that the majority of players cannot relate to at all. Farming det flags, how would you even do that? Players usually farm Dreadnoughts, Close Quarters Experts or Arsonists because they can control those and can thus achieve a predictable outcome for their efforts. Detonations are entirely RNG, so I don't believe many people were actively farming them, if any.

So, why not be honest to the community in that you had an in-depth analytical look at the in-game economy and how it affects the companies bottom line, where you found out that players are sitting on too many flags? Yes, people would not have been happy, but this is a F2P title and the company has to make money. People would have understood.

But coming up with edgecase examples and anecdotes about players abusing the Detonation system is tone deaf, to say the least. It paints the playerbase as the responsible party for the change, making it sound like it was something we brought on ourselves due to our misdeeds instead of it being just economic reality. This is not only disingenuous, it also insults us players because you - apparently - think we would not notice and just go with it. If abusing Detonations would have been the issues, why not remove the offending mechanic?

So forgive me, but I feel personally insulted by this statement. Not because of the insinuation that we farm Detonation flags or 'abuse' the system in any way, but because you must have thought we would not notice this being what it really is.

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3 hours ago, Maredraco said:

The available rewards include More Signals containers and Gift containers. On average, you should receive the same number of signals as before.

I accept that logic, but:

A: the rewards are RNG based.

B: you have to play and WIN to have access to any rewards, meaning the average sub 50% winrate player will take quite a bit of time to actually get a reward.

C: Achievements and their rewards which could sweeten defeats (or detonations) if you gave it your best become irrelevant. 

Anyway, obviously these changes were not your idea but they aren't really defensible aside from giving access to co-op players to a few signals here and there.

The only things that could lead to loads of players farming signals constantly would be either sealclubbers taking advantage of low tiers to farm achievement rewards,  or Ranked players able of consistently farming High Caliber. Both of which I'm pretty sure happened in small numbers but don't think was widespread.

Bottom line there's a reason every week and almost every day there is a thread on the subject.

Edited by warheart1992
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6 hours ago, AlcatrazNC said:

I love how the clip ends with him saying "play to your maximum" when people are no longer encouraged to do that. Why would I try to go for a kraken if all I get at the end is nothing but just a small badge?

Because a Kraken's a Kraken. It's an achievement. 

Honestly I'm quite shocked to discover how many people used achievements to farm flags, because for me they've always just been a decorative achievement. For most flags I'd get more than I could use while playing normally anyways, flag farming with achievements had never crossed my mind. 

For me, the changes mean that I have a higher chance of getting rarer flags like speed flags now than before. For example, I've got over 2000 of the Confederate flag, and almost no speed flags. It spread flag gains out, instead of just the flags of the most common achievements.

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15 minutes ago, mrmariokartguy said:

Honestly I'm quite shocked to discover how many people used achievements to farm flags, because for me they've always just been a decorative achievement. For most flags I'd get more than I could use while playing normally anyways, flag farming with achievements had never crossed my mind. 

Well, it was never really about farming achievements, but some of the flags were self-replicating so to speak. For example, the "Dreadnought" achievement came with some India Delta flags, which improved your heal by 20%. So, if you played a game with India Delta and made good use of it, then you would replenish it by just that. Now you either have to get it through a container (which by most accounts is way worse in terms of signal economy) or directly through the armory.

The latter is quite convoluted compared to how we can restock i.e. camos. So I don't know why we don't have a convenient auto-buy button for Det-flags etc., since they are the #1 tax we are now paying. So, it wasn't about actively using achievements to farm flags, but about the neat little side effect of achievements giving you flags more than you'd use them if you could get achievements more often than not.

Again, I cannot stress this enough: I would argue most of the players would have accepted the economy argument against this, but the "There were guys using this to FARM ACHIEVEMENTS (in a tone that insinuates this is not right)" spin on this was just a bit too much. Personally I never played to gain achievements, but to win a match and get the best result. Achievements were always welcome, but now they just feel like worthless trophies with no reward for losing in a nice way. Why bother?

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