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CrazyHorse_Denver

Any tutorial videos out there...

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… on how to pronounce some of these Dutch ship names???

Is it key-jeck-do-in... or something else... was that even close?

Is the double EE pronounced like teen without the T? How is the double AA sounded out?

@Lert we could use some help here... please... after all most English speakers only speak one language... and most do that rather poorly. :Smile_child:

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59 minutes ago, CrazyHorse_Denver said:

Is it key-jeck-do-in... or something else... was that even close?

Honestly, that's about as close as New York is to Timbuktu.

  • In Dutch, the combination 'ij' sounds like 'eye' or 'aye'.
  • The combination 'ui' - there is no equivalent sound in the English language, so I wouldn't even know how to explain it to you. The sound simply doesn't exist in English. But 'uy' (like in De Ruyter) is basically the same sound.
  • Then there's 'ou' from Gouden Leeuw. It's very close in pronunciation to 'ow', from 'how'.
  • 'Eeu', also from Gouden Leeuw. It's ... very close to 'ew', like the exclamation of disgust, except starting from an 'i' as in big.
  • The 'g' from Gouden Leeuw, Gelderland and van Kinsbergen is a guttural sound. Like how a Scottish person pronounces 'loch' as in 'loch ness'
  • The 'ch' from Eendracht is the same as the 'g' above.

Easiest thing you can do to hear these names pronounced is to go to google translate, set the origin box to Dutch, type the word and have her pronounce it. She is very close on most of them, though I'd wish she'd pronounce the second 'k' in 'kijkduin' a bit more, instead she swallows it.

Oh and if you do that, don't forget the double dot in 'De Zeven Provinciën'. The double dot on the ë means that it's pronounced separately from the vowel before it; without the double dot the combination 'ie' sounds like 'ee' in 'see'. Trust me, the double dot changes how the whole word sounds, yeeting the emphasis around as well.

... Yeah, Dutch is a female dog to properly pronounce. I know. There's a 'g' in my real name, I've long since given up on trying to get my English speaking friends to pronounce it properly.

 

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I speak Southern American, a form of English. It's best I don't try Dutch where I may be overheard.

 

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1 hour ago, CrazyHorse_Denver said:

Is the double EE pronounced like teen without the T? How is the double AA sounded out?

Forgot to answer this one, sorry.

In Dutch, doubling up a vowel stretches the sound.

  • A single 'e' is like the e in wet.
  • A double 'ee' is like the ai in taint, or like how you'd pronounce the letter 'a'. Unless there's a u directly following it, see above post.
  • A single 'a' is like the a in far, when in a word, flanked by consonants. Though sometimes it's not, depending on context. It's .... a lot to go in to. Like the 'a' in bar and in baren are two completely different sounds based on the syllables around them.
  • A double 'aa' is like the exclamation 'Aaaah' of sudden understanding or surprise, a bit drawn out.
Edited by Lert

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RNLN ships should come with a warning.  "Don't try to pronounce this at home."

 

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6 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

Gouda is in fact Houda.

Except that it really isn't. >.> Maybe it sounds a bit like that to people without the proper 'g' sound in their language, and I know that in certain regions in the NL the dialect makes for a very soft sounding 'g', but a h it most certainly is not.

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4 minutes ago, Lert said:

Except that it really isn't. >.> Maybe it sounds a bit like that to people without the proper 'g' sound in their language, and I know that in certain regions in the NL the dialect makes for a very soft sounding 'g', but a h it most certainly is not.

I'm sorry but I'm unable to tell the difference, at least with my ear. Same with Groningen :Smile_hiding:.

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1 minute ago, warheart1992 said:

I'm sorry but I'm unable to tell the difference, at least with my ear. Same with Groningen :Smile_hiding:.

Just have the google translate lady say them, it's a good approximation.

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1 hour ago, Lert said:

Honestly, that's about as close as New York is to Timbuktu.

 

 

So I checked out the google translate like you suggested and you're right... I was no where to being close. I did like the English words that Kijkduin translated into... somewhat poetic I thought.

The differences in the G sound between Dutch and English is astounding. Two completely different sounds represented by the same letter.

It's nice now to be able to properly pronounce De Ruyter... so now if I ever get into a discussion of Dutch naval history... happens every other day doesn't it... I won't sound like a fool.

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2 hours ago, Lert said:

Except that it really isn't. >.> Maybe it sounds a bit like that to people without the proper 'g' sound in their language, and I know that in certain regions in the NL the dialect makes for a very soft sounding 'g', but a h it most certainly is not.

More like ghouda?

2 hours ago, warheart1992 said:

I'm sorry but I'm unable to tell the difference, at least with my ear. Same with Groningen :Smile_hiding:.

As I hear it, the Dutch 'g' is more like an aspirant than a full glottal stop.  Same glottal action but not a full closure.

Is that right Lert?

Edited by iDuckman

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5 minutes ago, iDuckman said:

More like ghouda?

 

6 minutes ago, iDuckman said:

As I hear it, the Dutch 'g' is more like an aspirant than a full glottal stop.  Same glottal action but not a full closure.

I know what some of those words mean.

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A fricative.  Yeah, that's what I was getting at.  With a glottal stop, the air stops because you've blocked it. That's how I form a g in English.

 

Edited by iDuckman

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8 minutes ago, iDuckman said:

A fricative.  Yeah, that's what I was getting at.  With a glottal stop, the air stops because you've blocked it. That's how I form a g in English.

Yeah that sounds about right to me.

<Edit> Note that this guttural 'g' is standard Dutch. There are regions in the NL, particularly towards the south, where the 'g' is a lot softer, closer to a 'h' but never quite there. I live around the border between the two regions, though I grew up more north-west, where the 'g' is quite guttural.

Edited by Lert

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20 minutes ago, Lert said:

Yeah that sounds about right to me.

<Edit> Note that this guttural 'g' is standard Dutch. There are regions in the NL, particularly towards the south, where the 'g' is a lot softer, closer to a 'h' but never quite there. I live around the border between the two regions, though I grew up more north-west, where the 'g' is quite guttural.

Ok, I saw the video, I think I understand now. Simply put, most of my time in NL was spent in Zuid-holland and now I'm in Flanders. That could explain the close to 'h' 'g' I tend to hear.

Edited by warheart1992

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4 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

Ok, I saw the video, I think I understand now. Simply put, most of my time in NL was spent in Zuid-holland and now I'm in Flanders. That could explain the close to 'h' 'g' I tend to hear.

It do. :) I'm near Arnhem myself.

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5 minutes ago, Lert said:

It do. :) I'm near Arnhem myself.

Welp, have lived in Den Haag and Leiden for a while, but also gone on trips to Rotterdam, Delft, Haarlem, Gouda, Amsterdam, Utrecht.

Sadly not Arnhem; that and Hertogenbosch (bit of a Hieronymus Bosch fan) were on my list, but due to the situation nowadays it ain't that easy to travel.

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