Stop protecting ignorant players with RNG [Random Number Generator] mechanics

[BarneyStyle]

Just tone the RNG.  Nothing new, but jesus.  Every game is chalk full of malarkey mechanics that protecting new players the same way they made cars way too safe to drive.  Karma used to take out the simple minded on the road, now they plague the streets. 

[Helstrem]

Imagine what the game would be like with no RNG and then you will know why it is RNG heavy.

[tcbaker777]

imagine comparing a mechanic in a virtual multiplayer game to something that was done to SAVE PEOPLES LIVES and thinking its a good comparison, sure would like to know the drugs used to come to that conclusion so i can avoid them

[shinytrashcan]

1 minute ago, Helstrem said:

Imagine what the game would be like with no RNG and then you will know why it is RNG heavy.

Yes, because the only options here are all-RNG or no-RNG. /s

Seriously, I agree with the sentiment that the game overly relies on RNG to balance things, like BB AP being sometimes comically inaccurate or DBs on some CVs getting nerfed not by making them harder to use but more random. Less RNG would establish a more direct connection between cause and effect, which could help people to actually learn from experience. Some RNG is necessary to make the game playable and enjoyable, but overdoing it is a detriment to the game in my opinion.

 

[Helstrem]

Ok, so you were too lazy or too unimaginative to work it out.  BBS with no, or even just significantly reduced, RNG would outright delete enemy ships. Gut their alpha to deal with that and now you have 12-20” guns that hit like they are 8” guns and you’ve broken the fantasy of the guns being big.

[shinytrashcan]

22 minutes ago, Helstrem said:

Ok, so you were too lazy or too unimaginative to work it out.  BBS with no, or even just significantly reduced, RNG would outright delete enemy ships. Gut their alpha to deal with that and now you have 12-20” guns that hit like they are 8” guns and you’ve broken the fantasy of the guns being big. 

Sure, because other options like changing armor profiles, reducing overmatch etc. are not an option. Also, what is wrong with rewarding good positioning and aiming (for both BBs and cruisers) by making it more reliable to get devstrikes on broadsides, but also make it possible to mitigate more damage through angling?

Not asking for Stalingrad guns on every BB, but getting only overpens and misses on broadside CLs at sub-10km ranges is just comically bad. Basically the BB has done everything right and caught the CL in a tough spot showing broadside at close range, yet the CL lives because RNG says so. Good game design, when the slot machine mechanics have more to say about the outcome than the player inputs...

[BarneyStyle]

33 minutes ago, tcbaker777 said:

imagine comparing a mechanic in a virtual multiplayer game to something that was done to SAVE PEOPLES LIVES and thinking its a good comparison, sure would like to know the drugs used to come to that conclusion so i can avoid them

Millennials are so sensitive.

[Merc_R_Us]

There is a solid, SOLID, difference between dumb players and the playerbase here.

You know the average age of players is north of 40 for this game? (someone correct me if im wrong there). 

The issue that arises with this game is that they need to cater to 3 generations of playerbases. Typically, those older want something more casual (ends up being more rng), and the younger crowd (more apm, more reward for skill, technical and not). 

I been saying it, I think RNG fixes should be reserved for Co-Op & Operations, and less RNG mechanics in Ranked, Clan Battles, and ideally Random battles. Not gonna happen as they don't want a "game within a game." 

Then again, they can change their minds as we know, so we'll see.

[tcbaker777]

5 minutes ago, BarneyStyle said:

Millennials are so sensitive.

so thinking that comparing a video game mechanic to something that was done in order to help protect peoples lives is a bad comparison is being sensitive? i call it being a decent human being, maybe you should try it out some time

[MrDeaf]

Well, there was a previous game mode where a north carolina could get perfect accuracy

It was hilarious, to say the least.

[Moggytwo]

24 minutes ago, shinytrashcan said:

Not asking for Stalingrad guns on every BB, but getting only overpens and misses on broadside CLs at sub-10km ranges is just comically bad. Basically the BB has done everything right and caught the CL in a tough spot showing broadside at close range, yet the CL lives because RNG says so.

There is no RNG involved in those overpens, and this is due to the way shell fusing mechanics work. Firing at a perfectly broadside CL at close range is often going to result in disappointment, and instead firing at an appropriate angle will maximise the effect of a BB salvo. 

Also, look at the result of a relatively minor reduction of RNG with the introduction of Dead Eye, and the huge negative impact that had on the game meta. Now imagine what an actually significant RNG reduction would do - it would fundamentally break the game. 

 

Edit: re-read my post and realised it was excessively passive-aggressive. Sorry about that, have adjusted it. 

[Rothgar_57]

16 minutes ago, tcbaker777 said:

so thinking that comparing a video game mechanic to something that was done in order to help protect peoples lives is a bad comparison is being sensitive? i call it being a decent human being, maybe you should try it out some time

wow you are too sensitive.

[shinytrashcan]

1 minute ago, Moggytwo said:

A good BB player would know enough about shell fusing mechanics to understand there is no RNG involved in those overpens. They would also know that firing at a perfectly broadside CL at close range is often going to result in disappointment, and because they understand why that would be, they would instead fire at the appropriate angle to maximise the effect of their salvo. 

Also, look at the result of a relatively minor reduction of RNG with the introduction of Dead Eye, and the huge negative impact that had on the game meta. Now imagine what an actually significant RNG reduction would do - it would fundamentally break the game. 

The first point is certainly true, though it is also part of the problem. Bottom line is, that the often touted ability of BBs to delete cruisers is often as much reliant on RNG as it is skill, and in certain situations RNG is the limiting factor (which is never really a good PvP game experience, but opinions may vary on this).

Deadeye certainly was a problem, but I would say it was mostly a catalysts for the backline meta: People were not really pushing in to begin with, deadeye with its increased accuracy and - way more important - the confusion around its conditional nature just facilitated the sniping playstyle very well, plus actively incentivizing players to stay at distance.

Don't get me wrong, I am not asking to straight up buff BBs with much better dispersion, but I would say they should reconsider the amount of RNG that is used in balancing instead of other measures (reload, pen values, fuzes, armor schemes etc.). I rarely play BBs, and everytime I do the slot machine nature of them just drives me away rather quickly. Cruisers and DDs are way more rewarding to people looking for consistency, which I am sure you are well aware of.

[shinytrashcan]

24 minutes ago, BarneyStyle said:

Millennials are so sensitive.

Sure, because it's usually "the millennials" that complain about toxic people in chat.

[clammboy]

Is there a full moon out some strange posts lately ?

[SlightlyComatose]

14 minutes ago, BarneyStyle said:

Millennials are so sensitive.

I'm pretty far removed from the 'Millennial' category and have to agree you original post was a BAD analogy.

I get I tho, overpens suck.

[warheart1992]

Can money and profits be dumb or smart? Just thinking out loud.

[Burnsy]

Why do you suddenly want to change something that has been a core mechanic of the game since launch, 6 years ago?  There are thousands of other games you can play in which things are pixel accurate and the guns behave like lasers.  This game has never been one.

[Moggytwo]

3 minutes ago, shinytrashcan said:

The first point is certainly true, though it is also part of the problem. Bottom line is, that the often touted ability of BBs to delete cruisers is often as much reliant on RNG as it is skill, and in certain situations RNG is the limiting factor (which is never really a good PvP game experience, but opinions may vary on this).

There's definitely RNG involved, and sometimes you don't get the results you want to because of RNG, however skill is still by far the most important factor. A player with high aiming skill in a BB will have consistently good results over the course of a battle, even if single salvos may be sometimes disappointing. 

I just can't see how a significant reduction in RNG would improve the game, but I can certainly see how it could make it much worse. 

Also, I edited my previous post, but mustn't have done it before you replied. My apologies. 

[xHeavy]

No RNG would be nice.

However being deleted is not so nice. Kind of rude actually. Poof. Sunk. Thank you for playing.

Lets imagine for a moment all of the guns on ships are prefect railguns.

Everyone will be in their respective teams back rows waiting on the chump to advance far enough to detect something to delete.

What gets my goat and angers me is the way BB secondaries etc has been made into a ineffective crapshoot. Spraying everywhere all over your screen outgoing and hitting nothing. While you get deleted waiting on turrets to come around. (If you were that unaware in situational awareness etc we cannot help you)

 

I did evolve a little bit. Ive learned to fire once at game start and one sescond into the game beginning directly into the water. That removes the worst of the RNG when you do meet a red ship to shoot at.

[CaliburxZero]

1 hour ago, BarneyStyle said:

Just tone the RNG.  Nothing new, but jesus.  Every game is chalk full of malarkey mechanics that protect dumb players the same way they made cars way too safe to drive.  Karma used to take out the simple minded on the road, now they plague the streets. 

Well Barney, I know you're a smart guy.  Consider how many of those players are protected by  that RNG, versus players who are competent (let alone good) that make up this population and I think you'll arrive at why there's so much RNG.  

Its all about profits and keeping those dumb players from not feeling like they're just that, dumb.  

[HazeGrayUnderway]

But it's historical for a lot of randomness with gunnery.  Guns weren't laser accurate with pinpoint accurate shots each salvo.

 

For example is some data for the USN 16"/50 guns, as used on the Iowa and still born Montana-class Battleships.  Do remember the Iowas had the luxury of fantastic Radar Gunfire Control, etc.  Red added by me for emphasis.  Source:  NAVWEAPS

[Navalpride33]

2 hours ago, BarneyStyle said:

Karma used to take out the simple minded on the road, now they plague the streets. 

Such one sided view of a complex topic... Its not in anyway shape or form, would I would hear anyone rage about preserving life as "plague" to the streets.

Nonetheless. Its your opinion, its a distorted one...

GL

[IfYouSeeKhaos]

The problem is the meme "broadside is bad"...

Back at the start it was a solid meme...but so many new additions have made it not so solid anymore.

Lots more heavy shell ships that pass through a lot more thin skinned ships...especially with the introduction of so many more CLs than used to be in the game & plenty of guns that match or exceed the calibur that used to be exclusive to just the Yammy.

Gotta know what your firing in relation to what your firing at to ensure those juicy shots that used to be standardly guaranteed citadels & the resultant dev strikes against broadsides..now it's better in a lot of cases to have angled targets to give the shells time to arm...especially in heavy shelled ships against paper thin armored CLs.

The worst part is in your mind you still have the concept that all those over pens into the waterline of the ship have got to at least start floods.

[DDJohnston]

Some of the RNG is simply there so that the people who are really good at the game don't just immediately run off any new players or players who aren't as good.  If you removed the RNG, that's what would happen.  The entire casual crowd would evaporate.  Some competitives will think that's a great idea...but if you remove the casuals, who are the competitive players with 70% win rates going to kill to keep those win rates?